watching B5 for the first time and it seems good

[OmegaChief]

I can echo everyones statments that you're getting to the best parts of B5, season 1 was pretty hit and miss, but unfortunatly required watching, and you don't really have to worry about hunting downs eason 5 that much, but boy are you getting close to having some fun with the last part of season 2
Spoiler

The orbital bombarbent of the Narn homeworld, and Londo's reaction to it are among my favorite scenes from the entire show

[Stofsk]

As for the Vorlons and Shadows, I liked the story but unfortunatly B5 really falls down due to it's special effects which are certainly not aging well. The several attempts to try and continue the series have been woeful disappointments. I seem to recall they wanted to try and bring it back but JMS said it couldnt be done since so many of the original cast actors are dead or unavailable.

I agree with you re: the special effects, but also just the regular camera work, acting etc as well. B5 was done on a shoe-string budget and it really shows. I remember reading about how a season of B5 had about the same amount of money that an episode of Star Trek had. (I don't know how true this is, I think it was in one of JMS's responses somewhere on the Lurker's Guide website; but if it is true it would sure explain a lot)

Having only seen no more than 10 mins of B5 Lost Tales, I also agree with you about the quality of the attempts to continue the series. JMS obviously lost his touch awhile ago.

[rhoenix]

As for the special effects being "dated," given my growing disdain for shows or movies with awesome graphics and plots that would make a four year old cry out angrily, I can live with "dated" graphics. It gets across the point, which is fine.

[Darth Wong]

Having only seen no more than 10 mins of B5 Lost Tales, I also agree with you about the quality of the attempts to continue the series. JMS obviously lost his touch awhile ago.

Yeah, but without those attempts to continue the series, we would never have the most hilarious sci-fi battle sequence ever made: the infamous Dragonball-Z scene from Legend of the Rangers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWtuKm6C1Sw

[Stofsk]

I'm kinda grateful I never watched Legend of the Rangers.

Although, yeah, that DBZ thing is funny.

[ThomasP]

I'm kinda grateful I never watched Legend of the Rangers.

Although, yeah, that DBZ thing is funny.

I tried to watch that thing when it came out, and holy shit was it bad. The DBZ scene was just icing on the cake.

Even worse, it felt like the plot was a total re-hash: "Oh noez dark evil things from SPAAAAAACE are coming to get us!"

Errr....you just did that one, and probably better the first time around.

[Balrog]

Spoiler

A sizeable Task Force sent to take back B5 after they declared independence turned tail and ran in the face of 3 Minbari Warcruisers in 'Severed Dreams'

Spoiler

Yeah, and in the episode immediately after EA sympathizers within B5 hatch a plan to try to get the Minbari warships to leave so their forces can come back.

Spoiler

Which sort of means they thought they DIDN'T have the means to take back the station by force while the Minbari were there, which was sort of the point?

I know, I was reinforcing the point that, whatever their Public Affairs division might spout out to the public, EarthForce knows it'll get its asses kicked by the Minbari if they have a go at them. Which is why they have to try underhanded means of dealing with that problem.

[fgalkin]

The only saving grace to that abomination was G'Kar. Thanks to Andreas Katsulas, it managed to regain a small degree of dignity. Beyond that, however....yeah, total shit.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[PREDATOR490]

I couldnt even stand watching that clip till the end. I thought Lost Tales was bad but after that it is at least not THAT bad.

B5 started and finished itself rather soundly to the point nothing is left to bring back and they have to resort to trivial garbage like Lost Tales even attempt it.
The other option of doing a movie setup for a spin-off has already been tried in Call to Arms and subsequent Crusade series which got canned in short order.

That said, I found ALL of the B5 movies rather garbage with the exception of the one that has Londo telling the story of the Earth Minbari war via flashback.
I had the fortune of watching that film first before the series because I thought it was the 'beginning' to B5 which kind of spoiled me for the first season and threw me because I thought the series was going to be a personal recounting of B5 via Londo.
Spoiler

Of course, it turns out all of B5 is in fact an news broadcast archive at the end of Season 5

[Vertigo1]

Spoiler

There was no WhiteStar around. It was three cruisers and Delenn's shuttle.

Spoiler

Wrong. You're confusing that scene with the one where Sheridan is harvested for experiementation by some vague species that the Minbari dealt with years prior. She follows the EAS Agamemnon in her personal shuttle, only because it was the only ship available to her. The whitestar wasn't even constructed at that time.

I'm kinda grateful I never watched Legend of the Rangers.

Although, yeah, that DBZ thing is funny.

Spoiler

On-top of that, David (atleast I think that was the guy's name) actually used the same tactic to destroy the last ship that he used to destroy the previous one. A shuttle full of holy hand grenades.

[Spyder]

na uh

that's why b5 is such a pain in the ass

all the stupid shit episodes still have important scenes in them

hmm

maybe i shoudl rip my disks and create the 'NO STUPID SHIT' edit

Oh I did that years ago.

Here you go:



edit: fuck, beaten...

[Zed Snardbody]

How the hell did they think that was a good idea......

[ThomasP]

Fuck that was even worse than I remembered.

And the memory was no cupcake.

[xerex]

rhoenix

if you have the B5 movies Id recommend watching "In the Beginning" at the end of season 3. The other movies are stand alones but that movie ties directly into the main plots.

[Thanas]

I suddenly do not regret never having watched Legend of the Rangers. Good lord.

Remember: RAGE MAKES SHIP SHOOT WELL.

[Uraniun235]

I agree with you re: the special effects, but also just the regular camera work, acting etc as well. B5 was done on a shoe-string budget and it really shows. I remember reading about how a season of B5 had about the same amount of money that an episode of Star Trek had. (I don't know how true this is, I think it was in one of JMS's responses somewhere on the Lurker's Guide website; but if it is true it would sure explain a lot)

Having only seen no more than 10 mins of B5 Lost Tales, I also agree with you about the quality of the attempts to continue the series. JMS obviously lost his touch awhile ago.

I don't think that could be true. I think I remember hearing that TNG had a budget of around a million per episode. Even if you doubled that, I can't see B5 averaging less than $100,000 an episode.

[rhoenix]

Ok, finished Season 2 last night.

The writers really did have their cards close to their chest; I wasn't able to guess or predict very much of what happened. This impresses me, as I'm usually able to figure out who's going to be the redshirt and when - but not here. Many things about the plots and subplots made me smile, especially as season 2 started picking up more steam.

Lots of little things impressed me. However, it might be prudent for Kosh to add a jetpack to that suit of his, to avoid any further...public appearances.

Season 3 begins hopefully today, when I get the DVD's through Netflix.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I enjoyed the first four seasons of B5. There is no 5th season, there is no 'river of souls', and there is no holo-brothel on Babylon 5.

[Uraniun235]

Eh. Fifth season is bad in the first half, but the second half is pretty decent.

There's really only two three things I can't stand about fifth season B5:
Spoiler

1. Captain whatsherface. More specifically, the whole "well i fought for clarke because MILITARIES AREN'T SUPPOSED TO STAND UP NO MATTER WHAT RUHRUHRUHRUHRUH" gimmick. It was a nice try on JMS' part but it was just too awfully hamhanded to work as intended; rather than see her as a sympathetic veteran from the south the Clark camp, she just comes off as hiding behind some ideological sound-bite to justify her actions.

2. BYRON

fake edit:
3. The terrible "some crazy shenanigans are going on again, but now we have the perspective of the AVERAGE JOES" episode. Really poorly written, also really hamhanded.


(yes I know B5 is made of ham to begin with but these seemed like particularly egregious examples)

[PREDATOR490]

I found season 5 rather aimless in the aftermath of all the big battles being done and especially because of Season 4's wierd finale of Deconstruction of Falling Stars.

I believe it was created on the fly because the ACTUAL ending to Season 4 was moved to the end of Season 5 because the series got extended an extra season.
Spoiler

That said, I found Deconstruction of Falling Stars rather interesting due to humanity becoming the new 'Old Ones'.

Lochley didnt bother me too much compared to Lyta and the developing Telepath story which never got properly finished. Crusade apparantly had the notion of showing the aftermath of the Telepath war with even an appearance from Bester slated for one of the episodes but the show was simply a mess.

I think some of the unpredictability in casting comes from the fact B5 had a few issues with actors getting booted. Thus some of the cast you would expect to be covered by 'character shields' disappear which did help the show a bit. Since I watched 'In the Beginning' first I spent the whole first season asking who the fuck some of these people were and when the 'real' cast would appear.

[fgalkin]

Vendetta's post disappeared as per my warning.

Use spoiler tags, people.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Darth Wong]

I enjoyed the first four seasons of B5. There is no 5th season, there is no 'river of souls', and there is no holo-brothel on Babylon 5.

The problem with Babylon5 was that JMS didn't really create a proper open-ended sci-fi universe. He wrote a story, and every element of that universe was concocted simply for the purpose of fitting into that story. Many of these elements made little or no sense if you thought too hard about them (really, the entire Minbari race is nothing but a plot device, and their internal culture is stupid and illogical), but they worked insofar as they were woven tightly into the ongoing story. Taken out of that story, what good are they? Their entire society and religion was literally geared around the Shadow War story arc! Season 4 was like their Book of Revelation, for fuck's sake.

That's one of the reasons the series has such a strong "what now?" vibe after the story arc is done. Making up creepy "Shadow helper races" who are evil just for the sake of being evil did not exactly help matters.

[Vympel]

edit: fuck, beaten...

No, you posted the FAMOUS video which is HILARIOUS, and Mike posted one at least I have never seen and which was equally hilarious.

What were they thinking?

Is there a scene in that stupid movie where they describe this .... 'system'?

[Anguirus]

I believe it was created on the fly because the ACTUAL ending to Season 4 was moved to the end of Season 5 because the series got extended an extra season.

Nah. Season 4 was only shortened by 3-4 episodes.

The REAL problem with season 5 is that hotel staff threw JMS' detailed notes on season 5 out during a convention, and he had to start writing scripts in days due to the chaotic schedule since it was picked up for season 5 so last-minute. Plus, one of the leads tried to pull some salary-increasing hijinks at this time and got booted. So the first few episodes were written at a frantic pace, minus a lead character and minus the notes he'd been writing from for the whole series.

The end of season 5 rocks. The beginning is mediocre (at best) for this reason. (Though it's still better than a lot of the non-JMS episodic parts of season 1, which is to say very average, with lots of foreshadowing of future awesome.)

He doesn't have an excuse for Legend of the Rangers though (which I haven't seen, thanks to that clip). I haven't even seen Lost Tales, I was all excited for those and then I heard those sucked too.

[Vympel]

The most they could do to give B5 a new lease on life is remaster it, Star Trek style. Especially since the VFX on the DVDs are especially bad, since the high resolution versions of the shots were lost or some such.

But yeah, given the quality of the various movies (mostly pretty poor, except for In The Beginning) they should really just leave it.