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The Yosemite Bear wrote:Wait? MP5? what, did that mean goblin could make Automat Kalasnikov-47, And Gnomes will get "Say hello to my little friend"?

MP5 is the term for 'Mana Regeneration per 5 seconds'.

Well, as I understand it, for DPS casters (mage, warlock), Int, Hit, Crit, Haste and Mastery become our only DPS stats in Cataclysm, all other stats are utterly useless. For Plate DPS, they might go the same route, with Str, Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery and Expertise being the only DPS stats, and Agility being as useless as Spirit will be for cloth DPS. That would make downgrading armor types a moot point if Leather and Mail never have Strength on it (well, except maybe random "of the Bear" type stuff).

Stamina is, of course, the universal DPS stat. Dead men deal no damage.

My way of preparing for Cata is to not make any new characters, and just try to level up and gear up the ones I have now. I can't wait to see the new starting areas.

Someone dug the voice files for the Battle for Gnomeregan out of the PTR. Sounds pretty awesome, looks like its going to be a phased assault that reclaims the entire surface area.

But MY suggestion souds like fun

I have a question for those who have far deeper understanding of endgame in WoW.

Do Pure classes (Mage/Warlock/Rogue/Hunter) bring anything to the table that Hybrid classes don't? Could they be replaced with minimal fuss, or is there something that shows up at higher levels of play that makes them useful?

Pure DPS (warlock, mage, rogue, etc) do greater total damage and greater damage per unit of time than any hybrid, assuming comparable gear.

The biggest strength of hybrids are their flexibility, especially with dual spec. So, for example, my end-game shaman can either DPS or heal at a high level, but not as well as a pure warlock/mage/rogue/whatever for DPS or a priest healer. In a raid, though, my dual specs means that we can adjust for more DPS or more healing for each encounter or boss fight. Likewise, a dual spec druid might switch between off-tanking and melee DPS, or off-tanking and healing in a raid.

All other things being equal, though, a warlock will be able to out-DPS a hybrid DPS.

Most buffs are shared by several classes, so you could theoretically have an all-hybrid raid.

You'd lose some things, though.
Rogues and Hunters are the only two classes that bring threat-redirection (Tricks of the Trade and Misdirection)
Warlocks and Mages are the only ones that bring an Intellect buff (Fel Intelligence and Arcane Intellect) and Spell Crit debuff (Improved Shadow Bolt, Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill)
No Warlocks would mean no Demonic Pact
Warlocks and Arcane Mages can slow cast speed (Curse of Tongues and Slow)

Not bringing pure classes can also negatively affect overall raid DPS. A good non-Subtlety Rogue can kick the ass of most hybrid DPS, for example.

Broomstick wrote:The biggest strength of hybrids are their flexibility, especially with dual spec. So, for example, my end-game shaman can either DPS or heal at a high level, but not as well as a pure warlock/mage/rogue/whatever for DPS or a priest healer.

Just want to point out that being a hybrid is a yes or no question, and only applies to dps. The fact that Priests have more healing specs than Shaman, Druids, or Paladins doesn't make their capacity to heal any better.

It's a fairly pragmatic approach. Applying a hybrid tax to tanking or healing would be a mess because then you'd have to create a scale of hybridness. Are Death Knights more or less hybrid than Warriors? The former can theoretically spec either tank or dps in all 3 trees (ignoring that Unholy tanking is considered a sign of insanity at the moment), while the latter has 1 tank tree and 2 dps trees. Since Paladins can't do ranged dps, are they less hybrid than Druids?

It was smart of Blizzard to draw the line at Pure-DPS/Not-Pure-DPS, particularly since tanks and healers are already harder to come by.

While in some situations a healing shaman is the equal of a healing priest, shamans are more handicapped by casting time. Priests have a lot more instant heals and HOT's than shamans, which can have a significant impact in some situations. I don't know if that was an intentional handicap or not, but it's definitely a downside to being a shaman.

Admittedly, I'm speaking mostly from my admittedly biased and limited end-game experience, which is mostly on my shaman. I don't profess to being a theorycrafting expert.

Broomstick wrote:While in some situations a healing shaman is the equal of a healing priest, shamans are more handicapped by casting time. Priests have a lot more instant heals and HOT's than shamans, which can have a significant impact in some situations. I don't know if that was an intentional handicap or not, but it's definitely a downside to being a shaman.

Admittedly, I'm speaking mostly from my admittedly biased and limited end-game experience, which is mostly on my shaman. I don't profess to being a theorycrafting expert.

Not starting a flame fest or anything, but are you for real? The entire Priest playing population would have given their right nuts to have had chain heal during Sunwell.

Priests are the most 'versatile' and 'complete' healers (they have the more healing spells than you can shake a stick at), true. Priests are the best raid healers? False. It varies, but for raid damage Shaman's still rule, and for MT healing Pallies still faceroll, etc, etc.

My point is that yes, all healing classes are designed with intentional handicaps, because they all have something that they excel at.

Crown wrote:

Broomstick wrote:While in some situations a healing shaman is the equal of a healing priest, shamans are more handicapped by casting time. Priests have a lot more instant heals and HOT's than shamans, which can have a significant impact in some situations. I don't know if that was an intentional handicap or not, but it's definitely a downside to being a shaman.

Admittedly, I'm speaking mostly from my admittedly biased and limited end-game experience, which is mostly on my shaman. I don't profess to being a theorycrafting expert.

Not starting a flame fest or anything, but are you for real? The entire Priest playing population would have given their right nuts to have had chain heal during Sunwell.

Um... I said "some circumstances", not all of them. And as you point out, ALL classes have handicaps.

Yes, I am for real. Tell me, where did I specify "raid only"? I don't know anyone who spends time in just raids, you need to do other things just to get enough money for repairs. Yes, chain heal is a must-have for Sunwell - but in all the other instances and raids where you're constantly having to move, step out of the fire/poison/whatever, and in general CAN'T stay in one spot unless you want to die shaman are at a handicap.

Priests are the most 'versatile' and 'complete' healers (they have the more healing spells than you can shake a stick at), true. Priests are the best raid healers? False. It varies, but for raid damage Shaman's still rule, and for MT healing Pallies still faceroll, etc, etc.

Uh-huh.... so where is the conflict here? As you say, Priests are the most versatile and complete, that doesn't rule out shamans or paladins being better in a specific circumstance, or vice versa. Really, it's like whining than shamans can't mind control like priests or levitate, or slow-fall like mages. There always seems to be some unique thing that appears made for a very specific class, that doesn't make that class superior outside that limited circumstance.

Outside of very specific circumstances shamans aren't a preferred healing class. Sunwell was an exception to that rule, an exception.

Of course, a well geared and skilled player using a shaman to heal might well blow a badly geared ineptly played priest out of the water, but we're talking about circumstances where all other things are equal.

Shaman have always been a great healing class. Most classes can't do what they need to do while moving. Chain Heal is useful anytime multiple characters are taking damage, which is often. Paladins are lacking in instant heals and HoTs as well, but like shaman they get compensation for this.

There shouldn't really be any disparity, since the healing classes are all 'technically' hybrids, there is no pure healing class. If you spec a character as a healer, it's a healer.

Seriously, it's amazing the sheer bullshit Blizzard puts on the healer classes. So far the only thing they did right was Mana. They fuck Druids by giving a very small real heal, fuck Priest by going "HoTs are druid only...except your ultra shitty one.", fuck Shamans by going "Spam two buttons and Earth shield", and finally Paladins? Oh they still only have TWO MOTHERFUCKING HEALS. If they weren't MT/OT healers....they'd be back to fucking Bless Bots or go Ret or Protect so they do something.

Each healer is pigeonholed so fucking poorly that only when you outgear the place massively do you go "Oh, well...we can use the alt priest.". No wonder the three either go DPS/tank or fucking quit. It's staring at bars, move out of fires, doing that one job and realize that's the raid from MC to ICC.

And I don't want to speak of DPS. Namely warriors who are shit and crap until BiS and then become "Behold I do more then anybody but maybe our top warlock. Oh wait...I still beat him as well.". Hybrid tax my motherfucking ass. Each class some weird hang up that Blizz keeps blithering "Next expansion!".

Ghost Rider wrote:Oh they still only have TWO MOTHERFUCKING HEALS. If they weren't MT/OT healers....they'd be back to fucking Bless Bots or go Ret or Protect so they do something.

This reminds me of early Wrath Beta when Beacon of Light was an AoE HoT, before they changed it to healer cleave.

Ghost Rider wrote:Seriously, it's amazing the sheer bullshit Blizzard puts on the healer classes. So far the only thing they did right was Mana. They fuck Druids by giving a very small real heal, fuck Priest by going "HoTs are druid only...except your ultra shitty one.", fuck Shamans by going "Spam two buttons and Earth shield", and finally Paladins? Oh they still only have TWO MOTHERFUCKING HEALS. If they weren't MT/OT healers....they'd be back to fucking Bless Bots or go Ret or Protect so they do something.

Each healer is pigeonholed so fucking poorly that only when you outgear the place massively do you go "Oh, well...we can use the alt priest.". No wonder the three either go DPS/tank or fucking quit. It's staring at bars, move out of fires, doing that one job and realize that's the raid from MC to ICC.

And I don't want to speak of DPS. Namely warriors who are shit and crap until BiS and then become "Behold I do more then anybody but maybe our top warlock. Oh wait...I still beat him as well.". Hybrid tax my motherfucking ass. Each class some weird hang up that Blizz keeps blithering "Next expansion!".

Healers have been pretty much continually shit on all of WOTLK. First our regen was absolutely fucking gutted, taken completely out of our hands, and given to other specs. Specs that all absolutely fucking suck in pve now as well, lets take a look:
Survival Hunter - no-one specs that, absolutely no decently geared hunter will ever spec survival, they're all Marksman

Frost Mage - still completely gimp, because Blizzard still point blank fucking refuses to just seperate the PvE and PvP sides of this game al-fucking-ready

Destruction Warlock - were strong, but with demo being far stronger and giving one of the best caster/healer buffs in the game currently, and affliction being far higher DPS if you can abuse % damage buffs, no-one specs destruction

Shadow Priests - are dropping Mind Blast from their rotations with enough gear, since it's a DPS loss

Ret Paladin - the only spec that will consistently bring replenishment, since it's tied into a main dps talent.

It's absolutely retarded, that as a healer my entire regen for a raid, is completely fucking dependent on having another class. It's not like some buffs, where 'oh you can get by' - without replenishment, healers are utterly and severely screwed, and this is coming from a resto druid, with Dual Solace of the Fallen.


Then we've got the nerfs pretty much every single patch, the constant rebalancing, and being pidgeonholed more and more and more as GR said. Do you know what a disc priests job is in a high end guild? you bubble spam on the clothies - for pretty much the entire fight. Oh you might press prayer of mending, or PoH, or penance the tank now and then, but your most effective tool is being a bubble bot.
Same for resto druids - most of ICC is fucking tailor made to a resto druid going through 2-3 groups and just spamming rejuve/WG. Constantly, with replenishment, mana is never an issue, but it's horribly boring. Problem is, the resto druid talent trees, our idols, our set bonuses - all are geared towards rejuve spam. We've been completely sidelined into this.

PvP is the biggest issue for healers, especially with the retarded level of burst that has been present for all of WOTLK. Even now, in the final season, when classes are wearing close to the cap in resilience, it's not uncommon for a priest to die inside a strangulate, or for a partner to die inside a silence. And mostly it's to do with GRs last point - Warriors

Warriors have always been in this really odd place, that with low gear they're terrible - in pve and pvp, you can laugh at them as they do horribly. But then give them a good weapon, a few bits of gear, and they're tearing your face off. It started with Fury in Naxx, getting something like Betrayer of Humanity, and it just goes on every patch, until they're at the place they are now, as they were in Vanilla and TBC - complete gods, destroying everything in front of them. It's not unusual to see a Fury warrior pulling more DPS than any other class (including rogues), especially now you've got things like Shadow's Edge in the game.
In pvp, warriors completely destroy people as it is currently. They pretty much hardcounter clothies, and most leather wearers. Only other plate wearers stand a chance, and if the warrior is hard arp capped, or even soft capped (both are possible).....then the warrior can tear them a new one as well.

I've really gotten tired of 'Cata will fix it!" because it's BS. People said the same of TBC and WOTLK, and the game is still a broken mess - just take Balance druids for instance, they've been completely and utterly broken since the talents to support the spec were introduced, and every patch and expansion it's 'oh yes this next one will fix you guys, don't worry'.

At the very least, Cataclysm provides the opportunity for the myriad of balance problems to be new and different. In terms of the classes, TBC and Wrath is Vanilla WoW with extra stuff stapled on, so you get the baggage carrying over from patch to patch.

Hell, if you go by what the blues are saying, even Death Knights are getting design changes for 4.0. Will it fix everything? Of course not. But hopefully the balance problems will be less insane.

Civil War Man wrote:At the very least, Cataclysm provides the opportunity for the myriad of balance problems to be new and different. In terms of the classes, TBC and Wrath is Vanilla WoW with extra stuff stapled on, so you get the baggage carrying over from patch to patch.

Hell, if you go by what the blues are saying, even Death Knights are getting design changes for 4.0. Will it fix everything? Of course not. But hopefully the balance problems will be less insane.

They need to fix both gear and stat usage.

At the high end? It's all about balancing the whole thing, and even if they make it harder to hit caps(of Hit, Crit, whatever haste is) they need to stop fucking doing what they been always doing. What have they been doing? Intentionally fucking up gear. Make the last gear properly done, but actually lesser gear...not this bullshit of decent stat, useless PoS stat and go "Well this other piece compliments it...kind of!". Every single bit of gear until the final raid is usually a compromise. A fucked up system of "Well, you'll just replace it!" mentality that just pisses people off because you may see some item once or twice in a raid before the new fucking one is up....and it just barely works. The reason warriors go for leather? Because plate itemization since Vanilla has been the worst fucking thing they have done. You keep doing this insane dance until finally you get T15 and lo and behold, you finally get gear that is properly itemized instead of some halfwit shit that makes no sense for any of the classes that can use it.

And before the cries of you can reitemize the stats. Unless it means I can take that entire fucking thing not to be

Useless stat
Need stat

which then I have to juggle yet another piece and another and another until I have 5 belts, 4 gloves and 3 bracers all so I can mix and match so I can be effective? Then I'll think of their reitemization a success rather then the retarded poo flinging chimp it is now.

And I won't touch class because I will really need to see to believe they aren't just going to fuck it over as they have done this buff/nerf dance for the last five years. To give an allusion to said point? Warriors and Paladin actually breathe a sigh of relief when they aren't mentioned in a patch. Because for the longest time it's some fucked up nerf with a buff that was never needed.

Civil War Man wrote:At the very least, Cataclysm provides the opportunity for the myriad of balance problems to be new and different. In terms of the classes, TBC and Wrath is Vanilla WoW with extra stuff stapled on, so you get the baggage carrying over from patch to patch.

Hell, if you go by what the blues are saying, even Death Knights are getting design changes for 4.0. Will it fix everything? Of course not. But hopefully the balance problems will be less insane.

Yeah and if you went by what the blues were saying
'burst isn't a problem, more resilience will fix it' - oh lol, it took you buffing resilience massively, and nearly the entire expansion, and burst is still a problem

'warriors are great tanks' - who get completely overtaken on any hardhitting boss every single patch. OS3D? Druids and DKs - Vezax? DKs or Paladins - Anub? relegated to block tanking on adds, as a druid takes the boss (or another, but druid was best) - Heroic ICC? most of the bosses hit so hard, warriors are reduced to Safeguard bots

''BM will still be viable after the nerfs' - came about because of pvp, BM is completely useless in pve now, no hunter will spec it (it's like 17% behind MM)

And those are just 3 things they've said over WOTLK, Cataclysm is going to be like every other expansion, a gigantic clusterfuck of epic proportions, with a few good classes - WOTLK had paladins/DKs come out of the gate completely overpowered, and Cata will have a few classes the same.

Mainly this is because of their beta process, if any of you were in the WOTLK beta, you'll know that warlocks (for one) were pretty much outright ignored by the developers during the beta cycles, and so they were shipped completely and utterly broken.

Minischoles wrote:Yeah and if you went by what the blues were saying
'burst isn't a problem, more resilience will fix it' - oh lol, it took you buffing resilience massively, and nearly the entire expansion, and burst is still a problem

Actually it's amazing how bad it really is. The best 3v3 teams are still massive burst teams. If resilience was supposed to work the way it should? Cleave teams wouldn't be the fave.

'warriors are great tanks' - who get completely overtaken on any hardhitting boss every single patch. OS3D? Druids and DKs - Vezax? DKs or Paladins - Anub? relegated to block tanking on adds, as a druid takes the boss (or another, but druid was best) - Heroic ICC? most of the bosses hit so hard, warriors are reduced to Safeguard bots

LOL...holy shit yes. Warriors are now Fury, and you better get geared. Basically you become a rogue in plate without tricks. Hell, I apply sunders because we have a pally or the druid or even the DK at times tank. I did tank heroic Anub at first....then they realized I was better off going back to Fury and cleaving shit down faster then anyone but the rogue.

''BM will still be viable after the nerfs' - came about because of pvp, BM is completely useless in pve now, no hunter will spec it (it's like 17% behind MM)

I love the stupid and pointless buffs they tried to give to that neutered spec. It's like putting a band aid on a missing leg.

Mainly this is because of their beta process, if any of you were in the WOTLK beta, you'll know that warlocks (for one) were pretty much outright ignored by the developers during the beta cycles, and so they were shipped completely and utterly broken.

LMAO...fuck yes. Beta has always been this horrible mishmash. I remember way back going "Ummm warrior can't hit SHIT!" and this is the days of you prayed you outlasted the mob. TBC had some weirder problems with mages going up and down, with the asinine nerf they gave. And so on...

Ghost Rider wrote:

Minischoles wrote:Yeah and if you went by what the blues were saying
'burst isn't a problem, more resilience will fix it' - oh lol, it took you buffing resilience massively, and nearly the entire expansion, and burst is still a problem

Actually it's amazing how bad it really is. The best 3v3 teams are still massive burst teams. If resilience was supposed to work the way it should? Cleave teams wouldn't be the fave.

It get's worse. I love everything they say about pvp, because it's usually completely out of touch with what any 2200+ rated player is experiencing, it's glaringly obvious they really don't understand the game sometimes.
3v3 is horrible, even RMP, the supposed 'skilled' team, usually win by blowing up an opponent while another is crowd controlled. Cleave teams are stupid, i've literally had my 1200 resilience disc priest, killed through a bubble and full buffs, inside an MS/Bladestorm when a DK put a strangulate on me.
Or Hunters and Warriors in pvp, both do absolutely retarded levels of pressure and damage, yet Blizzard will consistently and constantly fail to address the problem.

5v5 is even worse, 99% of high rated teams contain essentially the same classes: Paladin and Shaman - Paladin for Aura Mastery+Concentration Aura, and bubble - while the shaman is there for BL. You simply will not see any decent 5v5 team without at least a shaman.

'warriors are great tanks' - who get completely overtaken on any hardhitting boss every single patch. OS3D? Druids and DKs - Vezax? DKs or Paladins - Anub? relegated to block tanking on adds, as a druid takes the boss (or another, but druid was best) - Heroic ICC? most of the bosses hit so hard, warriors are reduced to Safeguard bots

LOL...holy shit yes. Warriors are now Fury, and you better get geared. Basically you become a rogue in plate without tricks. Hell, I apply sunders because we have a pally or the druid or even the DK at times tank. I did tank heroic Anub at first....then they realized I was better off going back to Fury and cleaving shit down faster then anyone but the rogue.

It amuses me to see our warriors tank something like even normal LK, where normal hits can sometimes gib them, while when we have our feral druid tank, he can literally take anything the boss dishes out - for instance the Soul Reaper mechanic, nearly one shots a warrior tank on it's own, and requires a cooldown or a taunt off so the next melee hit doesn't kill them. For a feral druid? just sit there and take it.
And yeah Fury is stupidly good on cleave fights, it's fun watching our Fury warrior top 20k DPS on something like Heroic Twins, or be at 15k DPS with an Unholy DK on LK p1.

''BM will still be viable after the nerfs' - came about because of pvp, BM is completely useless in pve now, no hunter will spec it (it's like 17% behind MM)

I love the stupid and pointless buffs they tried to give to that neutered spec. It's like putting a band aid on a missing leg.

Pretty much, they completely eviscerated the spec because of Beastcleave, any buffs to it are pointless now unless it involves a complete overhaul of the entire tree, because they're constantly worried about overpowering it in pvp again they give it token buffs.

Mainly this is because of their beta process, if any of you were in the WOTLK beta, you'll know that warlocks (for one) were pretty much outright ignored by the developers during the beta cycles, and so they were shipped completely and utterly broken.

LMAO...fuck yes. Beta has always been this horrible mishmash. I remember way back going "Ummm warrior can't hit SHIT!" and this is the days of you prayed you outlasted the mob. TBC had some weirder problems with mages going up and down, with the asinine nerf they gave. And so on...

I gave up on posting in the beta forums after a month, when it was quite clear they were outright ignoring the players for the most part. I just concentrated on finding the most efficient way to grind to 80, and then pretty much never logged in again. What they did with mages is outright hilarious.

Not sure if anyone remembers, but mages whined the forums to a standstill about warlocks, and how DoTs countered them, and how the resists from Master Demonologist were overpowered - and guess what Blizzard did? They stripped warlocks of those resists, and gave them straight to mages, as well as giving them Mage Armor 50% reduction on all magic.

I'll leave out the whining over Retadins for now, but at least pallies are apparently getting a couple of new healing spells in Cata. One of the changes I look forwards to (because you just know Blizz will mess it up) is the drop in protection that plate armour gives you. Because, like, plate armour in PvP is so OP... /wave at all the casters out there.

Oh, and let's not forget the 0 Resilience everyone will have in Cata Season 1. "OMFGNERFRETQQ!!!!1!" in 3... 2... 1...

Teleros wrote:Oh, and let's not forget the 0 Resilience everyone will have in Cata Season 1. "OMFGNERFRETQQ!!!!1!" in 3... 2... 1...

Everyone's resilience goes to 0? I'll actually have a frackin' chance in PvP again for awhile....

Seriously, guys - you whine whine whine yet you all still play the game. Obviously you must like something in there!

Teleros wrote:I'll leave out the whining over Retadins for now, but at least pallies are apparently getting a couple of new healing spells in Cata. One of the changes I look forwards to (because you just know Blizz will mess it up) is the drop in protection that plate armour gives you. Because, like, plate armour in PvP is so OP... /wave at all the casters out there.

Oh, and let's not forget the 0 Resilience everyone will have in Cata Season 1. "OMFGNERFRETQQ!!!!1!" in 3... 2... 1...

They fucking better be HoTs or group spells because to make a tree in a class "Tank Healer" is fucking wrong in any design thought.

And yeah...plate, protection...LOL, indeed wave to the casters I swear Blizzard doesn't really play their game, and instead plays it once in a while to go "We rule!".


And Arena will still be

Warrior bitching...because our fucking class is broken. A class DEFINED by gear, and gear alone is the definition of broken. Either you are a fucking god, or you're a weak ass fucker not worth the tank/DPS spot. And before anyone goes "But, but, but you have MS!!!!". Yeah...good for the others to train on. If you're fighting a scrub force in 5v5.

Paladin/Rogue/Mage/Warlock screeching...because some scrub got beat by someone who compensated.

Hunters will still wonder what the fuck ever really happened to themselves, and Shamans will wonder what did they do to deserve some of the asinine shit.

Broomstick wrote:

Teleros wrote:Oh, and let's not forget the 0 Resilience everyone will have in Cata Season 1. "OMFGNERFRETQQ!!!!1!" in 3... 2... 1...

Everyone's resilience goes to 0? I'll actually have a frackin' chance in PvP again for awhile....

Seriously, guys - you whine whine whine yet you all still play the game. Obviously you must like something in there!

Yeah, it's called a few friends left in a guild. The instant that three people get fed up with two other fucking coddled idiots in the officer corps and leave? I'm calling it quits. I've seen every fucking thing in this game, and basically gotten the T-shirt. It still a mess of broken shit that they keep claiming "Next patch/expansion" ad nauseum.

Sick and tired of writing the same detailed analysis on DPS, tanking problems and a whole host of shit that Blizzard denies until it literally fucking chokes them in legitmate screaming and they apply a band aid and go "There? Happy?". Only to point out that they have done nothing but fix the most minor of issues.

Minischoles wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

Minischoles wrote:Yeah and if you went by what the blues were saying
'burst isn't a problem, more resilience will fix it' - oh lol, it took you buffing resilience massively, and nearly the entire expansion, and burst is still a problem

Actually it's amazing how bad it really is. The best 3v3 teams are still massive burst teams. If resilience was supposed to work the way it should? Cleave teams wouldn't be the fave.

It get's worse. I love everything they say about pvp, because it's usually completely out of touch with what any 2200+ rated player is experiencing, it's glaringly obvious they really don't understand the game sometimes.
3v3 is horrible, even RMP, the supposed 'skilled' team, usually win by blowing up an opponent while another is crowd controlled. Cleave teams are stupid, i've literally had my 1200 resilience disc priest, killed through a bubble and full buffs, inside an MS/Bladestorm when a DK put a strangulate on me.
Or Hunters and Warriors in pvp, both do absolutely retarded levels of pressure and damage, yet Blizzard will consistently and constantly fail to address the problem.

5v5 is even worse, 99% of high rated teams contain essentially the same classes: Paladin and Shaman - Paladin for Aura Mastery+Concentration Aura, and bubble - while the shaman is there for BL. You simply will not see any decent 5v5 team without at least a shaman.

Jesus fucking christ...I knew it was bad last season, but it's gotten worse? Well of course it does. Mixture of T10 and Arena and your guys have powers most of WoW's staff basically goes "IWIN" button.

Minischoles wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

Minischoles wrote:'warriors are great tanks' - who get completely overtaken on any hardhitting boss every single patch. OS3D? Druids and DKs - Vezax? DKs or Paladins - Anub? relegated to block tanking on adds, as a druid takes the boss (or another, but druid was best) - Heroic ICC? most of the bosses hit so hard, warriors are reduced to Safeguard bots

LOL...holy shit yes. Warriors are now Fury, and you better get geared. Basically you become a rogue in plate without tricks. Hell, I apply sunders because we have a pally or the druid or even the DK at times tank. I did tank heroic Anub at first....then they realized I was better off going back to Fury and cleaving shit down faster then anyone but the rogue.

It amuses me to see our warriors tank something like even normal LK, where normal hits can sometimes gib them, while when we have our feral druid tank, he can literally take anything the boss dishes out - for instance the Soul Reaper mechanic, nearly one shots a warrior tank on it's own, and requires a cooldown or a taunt off so the next melee hit doesn't kill them. For a feral druid? just sit there and take it.
And yeah Fury is stupidly good on cleave fights, it's fun watching our Fury warrior top 20k DPS on something like Heroic Twins, or be at 15k DPS with an Unholy DK on LK p1.

Yeah, we let one of the other warriors tank LK on regular for the epic feel, but even then...it's funny how raid chat goes. Basically healing leader goes "No fucking around guys...warrior tank and he will get gibbed. And shup up about him being geared.".

It's hilarious to see the druid sitting there, accidently presses HP trinket or whatever...and still stand going "Sorry...wait...does it matter?".

And yeah, on LK I can blow out everyone but occasionaly the warlock. But he has to get lucky. Our Unholy DK needs a couple more lucky drops from heroic to be there, but he's getting there. The Arms complains he needs a faster Bladestorm cooldown though .

Minischoles wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

Minischoles wrote:''BM will still be viable after the nerfs' - came about because of pvp, BM is completely useless in pve now, no hunter will spec it (it's like 17% behind MM)

I love the stupid and pointless buffs they tried to give to that neutered spec. It's like putting a band aid on a missing leg.

Pretty much, they completely eviscerated the spec because of Beastcleave, any buffs to it are pointless now unless it involves a complete overhaul of the entire tree, because they're constantly worried about overpowering it in pvp again they give it token buffs.

LOL, yeah I remember that. Really, just another of Blizzard's masterful overdramatic response.

Minischoles wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

Minischoles wrote: Mainly this is because of their beta process, if any of you were in the WOTLK beta, you'll know that warlocks (for one) were pretty much outright ignored by the developers during the beta cycles, and so they were shipped completely and utterly broken.

LMAO...fuck yes. Beta has always been this horrible mishmash. I remember way back going "Ummm warrior can't hit SHIT!" and this is the days of you prayed you outlasted the mob. TBC had some weirder problems with mages going up and down, with the asinine nerf they gave. And so on...

I gave up on posting in the beta forums after a month, when it was quite clear they were outright ignoring the players for the most part. I just concentrated on finding the most efficient way to grind to 80, and then pretty much never logged in again. What they did with mages is outright hilarious.

Not sure if anyone remembers, but mages whined the forums to a standstill about warlocks, and how DoTs countered them, and how the resists from Master Demonologist were overpowered - and guess what Blizzard did? They stripped warlocks of those resists, and gave them straight to mages, as well as giving them Mage Armor 50% reduction on all magic.

And I remember one guy who did a shit ton of the math and others talking of that. And then well...we see where Warlock and Mages are now. Amazed they don't give a fire and arcane elemental to mages and have them give HP or other buffs and call it a day. Oh wait, soulstones and green candy are still needed .