Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

[Temujin]

I gave it a 4, which seems a little difficult to rationalize what with all the other attempts to bring back and then squash the Dalaks, but overall I thought it was not only handled well, it actually is how the Dalaks should of been handled in the first place in the new series. No fleets of uber time war era Dalaks, but a few scattered broken down survivors of the Time War that managed to fall back through time at various points; and are trying, on extremely limited resources, to resurrect their empire.

The problem with the Emperor and his bastards was the need for Deus Ex Rose to resolve the situation. Likewise, the Cult of Skaro's plan required an equally overly dramatic resolution, and directly led to the absolutely dreadful Dalak's take Manhattan two-parter. And the less said about RTD's "The Stolen Earth / Journey's End" swansong the better. As much as i love the Dalaks, in retrospect, the only episode I thought RTD did right was "Dalak".

Letting them escape at the end was the appropriate thing to do. If they had done something like this with "Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways", then they could have set the Dalaks up as a continued potential antagonist, but one that has limited numbers and resources to prevent them from being a galaxy (let alone universe) destroying threat. And still not be pathetic like what the Cult of Skaro became.

The high point for me was the Davros-daleks nobly sacrificing themselves to be killed by pure daleks. It nicely illustrates that they're not simply hypocrites.

That was certainly a nice touch, and I like the return to the old color schemes.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point. For the Daleks to be a credible threat in an episode they have to be still alive without having to spend 20 minutes of storyline explaining how.

Perhaps a fix for PArting of the Ways would have been the Doctor setting off his Delta Wave bomb thing, but Rose using Time Vortex powers to shield the Doctor and Earth, so only Daleks die, but some of them were out of range. THAT would have been better

[Admiral Valdemar]

Temujin, it's Dalek. And I would say that RTD managed "Army of Ghosts" and "Doomsday" well for the Daleks too, given that was a competent way to sneakily bring them back. After that, though, the Daleks really should have been left out for at least a season, preferably longer. They became the go to baddies for when a crazy plot was needed, despite original foes like the Angels or old adversaries like the Sontarans being left by the wayside.

The overuse of the most iconic villain is bad enough. Couple it with poor writing with deus ex machinas needed to enable a victory, and even die hard fans will roll their eyes out of the side of their head.

[Temujin]

Temujin, it's Dalek.

Yeah, I know ; that's was due to a rare combination of sloppy typing and poor proofreading on that one.

And I would say that RTD managed "Army of Ghosts" and "Doomsday" well for the Daleks too, given that was a competent way to sneakily bring them back. After that, though, the Daleks really should have been left out for at least a season, preferably longer. They became the go to baddies for when a crazy plot was needed, despite original foes like the Angels or old adversaries like the Sontarans being left by the wayside.

The overuse of the most iconic villain is bad enough. Couple it with poor writing with deus ex machinas needed to enable a victory, and even die hard fans will roll their eyes out of the side of their head.

Story wise, I actually didn't mind "Army of Ghosts" and "Doomsday". It's just in retrospect that I really regret the entire route that RTD took with the series. The story would have worked better had the events of "Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways" not occurred (at least as they did). The story could have worked better if one, there had been no significant Dalek forces seen previously; and two, the Genesis Ark was prevented from being opened rather than have the cheap technobabble reverse the polarity Dues Ex that we saw. In other words, the threat of the opening of the Genesis Ark would have been the central point of drama and tension, not the attempt to cork the bottle after the genie had been released.

[Stark]

Wait is someone complaining about cheap deus ex being overused in new Doctor Who? There's a reason I haven't watched the show in years.

Then again, anyone who suggests Parting of the Ways would be improved by the Doctor firing the delta wave is retarded.

[Temujin]

Wait is someone complaining about cheap deus ex being overused in new Doctor Who? There's a reason I haven't watched the show in years.

Then again, anyone who suggests Parting of the Ways would be improved by the Doctor firing the delta wave is retarded.

Yeah, I guess I'm arguing the wetness of water. As for the delta wave, the Doctor not firing it is one of the good things about that episode.

[Shroom Man 777]

Coward any day.

That was a defining moment of what the new Doctor was.

[Vympel]

Just saw this episode. I just plain don't like the new Dalek design. They're too big. They're ... fat. I preferred the 2005-2009 model.

[Themightytom]

I was a fan of the Dalek with the union Jack because he was like a visual parody of the Docotr with his bow tie.

I think it should be a notable tv moment when the doctor held of a Dalek invasion with a cookie.

Thank you Doctor for not carrying explosives in the TARDIS, as usual a bunch of red shirts have to die because you're an alleged pacifist. Speaking of Spitfire's In Spaaaaace how mad was George lucas when he saw that, wasn't that part of his initial concept for the SW trench run?

I gave it a 4 because it was straightforward and entertaining. it could have been a 5 if it had been an hour longer, they had some interesting characters there and the way the doctor confronted the Dalek's so immediately was just jarring. he could have gone a little longer without realizing who was the secret weapon, or taken a little longer to decide what to do about it.

The serving tea scene was pretty hysterical but my favorite was watching the Dalek roll by with a briefcase on his plunger.

[Gramzamber]

Wait is someone complaining about cheap deus ex being overused in new Doctor Who? There's a reason I haven't watched the show in years.

Then again, anyone who suggests Parting of the Ways would be improved by the Doctor firing the delta wave is retarded.

Yeah, I guess I'm arguing the wetness of water. As for the delta wave, the Doctor not firing it is one of the good things about that episode.

Though I think the Doctor choosing to not sacrifice the people of Earth would have had more impact if the people of Earth had not all been killed in a continent-warping bombardment 5 minutes prior.

[Gemini-Preserver]

IRC not all of humanity was killed on earth. There was no mention of genocide. just mass bombardements across countries. The doctor also made the point that Humanity would survive with its colonies, yet these were the only Daleks in exisitence.

Personally I loved this episode. Yes the new Dalek designe took some getting used to, but then so did time war era ones. The suprem Daleks voice was just what i was hopeing for to go with the beefed up styling. Future episodes have been nicely set up as well, in a way in which I assumed people would actually 'like' insted of the slightly annoying "oh no we iz exteinct 'episode later and one falling through time' lol k we iznt" There out there, plotting and rebuilding. As for overused...last time we saw a Dalek was 2008. RTD didnt resort to using them in any of the specials, bar the slight flash back in WoM.

[Gramzamber]

There was no specific mention, but I have a hard time seeing many survivors coming out of the planet being slagged so badly that continents have distorted.
Also the colonies would've survived with or without the delta wave, it would've only affected Earth.

[Stark]

The continent warping is soooo overblown. Good thing there's no ejecta huh? Regardless, it does't change the fact that the Doctor's refusal to become an exterminator again, after struggling with his past, was the climax of the season, and part of the reason why s1 is the only nDW that doesn't have any fail in it. He's only saved by the power of love because the show doesn't end; if the Doctor had just been shot to death the series would have been great.

It's a shame that depowering the Daleks (something they should have done, oh, three years ago) took place and they went 60s Disco on the Daleks at the same time. I guess it's a cool shoutout to all the 60 year old fans who loved the Peter Sellers movies?

[Gramzamber]

Yeah well that's another thing - the Doctor refusing to be a killer is a powerful thing and all but he never has to face the consequences of his decisions to not exterminate the Daleks again.
Doesn't do it in "The Parting of Ways", Rose Ex Machina kills them all for him. Doesn't do it in "Journey's End", 10-2 does it for him and he can be a self-righteous ass about it.

[Stark]

Yeah, that's why the finales always suck; they boil down to him being an exposition sponge and someone else saves the day. At least in Doomsday (which I liked) he actually does it himself and has no qualms at all sending the Daleks into a bad place forever.

[Temujin]

Though I think the Doctor choosing to not sacrifice the people of Earth would have had more impact if the people of Earth had not all been killed in a continent-warping bombardment 5 minutes prior.

As Stark said, it was the Doctor choosing not to become something he despised, especialy since he had already done something similar in his past. Eccleston pulled it off well without coming across as whiny and emo, something unfortunately Tennant excelled at.

As for Smith, it's some of the little things he's been doing, but he's really starting to remind me of some of the older incarnations of the Doctor, which for me raises the overall quality of the episodes.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yeah, Nine not killing off the Daleks in "The Parting of the Ways" was done well given the foreshadowing to his emotional problems over the series coming to terms with his Time War actions (even if he was scared shitless that even Dalek survived in the eponymously named episode), and Ten finally getting his hands dirty in "Doomsday" also, since he'd finally learnt that the Daleks weren't going to stop harassing him. After that, we get finales where The Doctor doesn't cut it. His dealing of The Master was terrible, and were it not for Martha, would've been totally useless. Then we get Doctor frakkin' Donna.

[Big Orange]

After that, we get finales where The Doctor doesn't cut it. His dealing of The Master was terrible, and were it not for Martha, would've been totally useless.

That was the plan all along, the Doctor instructed Martha when the Master and his henchmen staged the coup onboard the Valiant; she travelled around spreading tales about the Doctor amongst the crushed populace and the populace's belief imprinted upon the Master's Angel Network (which gave the Doctor a psychic boost). I felt the Doctor was more on the knife-edge in "Human Nature"-"The Family of Blood".

Then we get Doctor frakkin' Donna.

Cheesy and silly as all circles of hell, but there was still the essence and memories of the Doctor within Donna (a pleb with a voice like a foghorn that saved the Multiverse). But either way the Dalek stories in recent years have been very popular amongst most viewers; 7000 voters for the Doctor Who Magazine put "The Stolen Earth"-"Journey's End" in at Number 13 (in a list of all 200 DW stories), ahead of "Dalek" and "Remembrance of the Daleks", while "Bad Wolf"-"The Parting of the Ways" came in at Number 10. Although we'll see if those episodes pass the test of time like "The Caves of Androzani" (which was voted in at Number 1, with Moffat's "Blink" taking second place).

"Victory of the Daleks" is certainly the weakest episode of Season Five yet, Mark Gatiss' best script remains to be "The Unquiet Dead" way back in Eccelston's season, but that doesn't stop "Victory of the Daleks" from being bad per-se and it's the best Dalek story in the last three years; I give it a 6/10 rating and voted a "3". The worst aspect of this episode was the insipid patriotism (when that Union Flag was being hoisted after the bombing run) and I'm still on the fence about the new Daleks. The Time War era Daleks are a better, more realistic looking design; I don't mind the new Dalek machines being bulkier and having a 1960s colour scheme, but they should straighten up the hulls, ditch the orange and lime colour schemes, put grooves in their bases, and give them more of a metalic finish.

Stark reminds me of Lawrence Miles:

'You know, I'm really getting into the whole "commenting on this week's 'Doctor Who' without actually having to watch the bugger" thing.'

[NecronLord]

BO, I see you've finally gotten around to stating an opinion not entirely based on audience ratings. Yeah, I don't think anyone's really happy with the new daleks.

And frankly, comparing anyone to Lawrence Miles is just low. It's obvious he has a massive chip on his shoulder about the whole franchise. Admittedly Stark is, let's be honest, a twonk, but his motives for disliking everything are at least mundane trolling, not angry-because-I-got-canned trolling like Miles'.

On a Lawrence Miles related topic I've finally given into temptation and started one of the Faction Paradox books too - though not written by him. I really can't say he's got any right to complain about the handling of the new series.

[Vympel]

nuWho's constant self-referential Britishness is a pain in the fucking ass. Go somewhere else, do something else.

We're on starship UK!

We're in the 1800s! Hello Queen Victoria!

Oooh we're at the Globe Theatre!

Oooh we're in Londun during the blitz!

Oooh we're in London during the blitz ... again!

Oooh we're in London some other time!

Oooh its Christmas in London!

Aliens are attacking London!

FUCK OFF.

[Srelex]

So, uh, what do you say to aliens constantly priotirizing Manhattan in American shows? Or Tokyo being the center of the universe?

[Gramzamber]

Oh yeah? Well when we leave the UK we get... "Daleks in Manhattan".
Yes... I think we'll just stay right where we are.

[Starglider]

nuWho's constant self-referential Britishness is a pain in the fucking ass. Go somewhere else, do something else.

There's plenty of international and off-earth stuff in the novels. The TV show is only showing us a subset of the things that happen in-universe, and obviously that subset will be biased towards things that are (a) actually possible to film and (b) likely to get ratings in the primary market.

[Stark]

Nobody cares about the novels. It's pretty easy to say 'this street is in Benghazi' or 'this forest is in Mongolia' or whatever. Nobody beyond fat nerds would care that the trees are wrong or whatever. Frankly, the old series did better with less, although expectations were lower. There's plenty of quarries, office buildings and farms in OTHER COUNTRIES.

So should I ask BO to back up his claim that I comment on episodes of DW without watching them, or should I just accept he's a spineless coward? Uh oh, agreeing with Vympel about a general trend = JUST LIKE LAWRENCE MILEZ!!!!!111

[Gemini-Preserver]

And of course Pompeii Is totally British, Henry van-stattern in his bunker near salt lake city was totally British to. Insted of Churchill who should of called him up for help? Hitler, Stalin, Saddam perhaps?