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I liked Chirrut Îmwe and Baze Malbus quite a bit, I thought they were great side characters with just enough to make them interesting without stealing the show.

Lord Revan wrote:I got the impression that the council didn't want to fight in scariff as it would provoke the empire but once rogue one was already on the ground there went "ah screw it, send in the fleet lets make this count" or at least signifigant enough portion of the council. Also the Mon Cal member was one the "pro-fight" members to begin with.

The key point is when the Rebel radioman gets the signal that Rogue One is on Scariff - and he runs to find Mon Mothma. He tells her "Rebel forces are in combat on Scariff". Monthma replies with "contact Admiral Raddus". The radioman replies "I can't. He's gone to his fleet. He's going to fight." Mothma then has a slight smile.

Admiral Raddus had done this before word had reached Yavin that Rogue One was on Scariff. He was acting against the wishes of the council as well.

atg wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:I got the impression that the council didn't want to fight in scariff as it would provoke the empire but once rogue one was already on the ground there went "ah screw it, send in the fleet lets make this count" or at least signifigant enough portion of the council. Also the Mon Cal member was one the "pro-fight" members to begin with.

The key point is when the Rebel radioman gets the signal that Rogue One is on Scariff - and he runs to find Mon Mothma. He tells her "Rebel forces are in combat on Scariff". Monthma replies with "contact Admiral Raddus". The radioman replies "I can't. He's gone to his fleet. He's going to fight." Mothma then has a slight smile.

Admiral Raddus had done this before word had reached Yavin that Rogue One was on Scariff. He was acting against the wishes of the council as well.

I can't remember him saying "I can't...", though considering that after this Mothma tells Bail Organa to send relible agent to get the plans it suggest that fleet had not left yet and after this Blue, Red and Gold Squadrons leave from Yavin 4 again suggesting a major commitment by the Alliance as a whole not a some renegades working independently, basically Raddus was going anyway so Mon Mothma sent rest of the forces they could spare to make it count rather then loose signifigant portion of their forces for "moral support".

IIRC Blue leader was part of that council meeting so he isn't just a red shirt but at time was major leader in the alliance (Hera Syndulla wasn't there (as far I can tell) and she was also a general so it's not a matter of rank either).

Anyone else notice the blue milk on the counter in the opening scene?



Anyway, I thought the movie was amazing, saw it Friday night and again Saturday morning. I really liked that by the time the comms officer reaches Mon Mothma with news about Scarif, Admiral Fatbar had already left. Really seemed to fit his character. But my favorite part had to have been when Cassion shot the freighter pilot in the back to tie up the loose end. Sort of like the movie saying "fuck you future special edition, you can't Greedo-shot-first this one."

As for the two ISD's over Scarif sitting and looking pretty, I think it was supposed to emphasize the difference between spineless Imperial bureaucrats and Darth Vader. When the Rebel Fleet arrives, the first thing the ranking Imperial officer says is to send for someone of higher rank. When the Devastator shows up, it opens fire immediately and subdues the Rebel flagship without issue.


Another good part was the whole scene where the Imperial tank is ambushed by the Gerrera extremists. It was great just as a battle scene, sort of what we've been missing for the past forty years, but was even better when you look a little closer. Big, slow, boxy tank? Turban-wrapped militant "extremists?" Tank gets blown up by IEDs? Seemed like a commentary on the Middle East fighting to me. Showed that while you may believe the other side is wrong, they believe they're right and they're still people. That was the best part of the movie. You could see people on both sides as actual human beings, not just nameless "bad guys" or "good guys."

Now for some nitpicks.


First, Darth Vader had red eyes? Are you serious? It seemed a bit over the top to me. In the OT, he didn't need red eyes to look terrifying as all hell. And the conversation with Krennic on Mustafar (confirmed?) was a little too talk-around-corners bureaucrat-speak. All the books I've read personified Vader as a man who doesn't care for the politicians and there red tape, he just likes to get shit done. The portrayal of this in the Battle of Scarif is discussed above.


On Eadu, after the X-Wings (holyshitholyshitholyshit) unload they're first volley, when the TIE Fighters have been deployed, Blindie shoots one down and sends it crashing into a triple-A cannon. I didn't mind the fact that he hit, or that it did the maximum damage possible when it crashed, but it irked me that a blaster rifle was able to incapacitate a starfighter with a single hit. Different scales. Just like how Vader simply cannot be defeated by Rebel infantry.



This one's a bit trivial, but I didn't like Darth Vader's walk. He moved too much like Krennic or some other officer. Darth Vader is more machine than man, and the machine part is built like a Star Destroyer. He walks with determination. My favorite example of this is at the 11:12 mark of this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvIMX-eFRqk&t=687s


And what happened to the ISD that crashed into the shields after they collapsed? We know they did, the message got through. The impact of something that big would have a serious effect if it landed anywhere near the base. Plus, it'd make for one hell of a shot seeing an X-Wing spiral flaming out of the clouds, followed by a flaming Star Destroyer in a nosedive.


Speaking of Star Destroyers, I didn't like when the Jedha destroyer activated it's engines and accelerated away, pointed upwards. Sure, it makes sense from a technical perspective, but it felt wrong. Star Destroyers should never do anything other than slowly move forwards, engines glowing. And when they exit atmosphere, they simply rise upwards, borne on repulsors.


As for why the plans were on video cassette and transmitted to a floppy disk, they had to. It's Star Wars, for God's sake. Did you see the targeting computers in the TIE fighters? Straight out of the eighties! Star Wars is not about amazing technology, it's about heroes. The more advanced the technology, the less sense tales of heroism make. The data tower was a perfect blend of high tech (the grabber) and Star Wars (the data files, and the fact that it was physical storage rather than just data).


It did kind of annoy me that Vader just walked too slow to get the plans in time.





As an aside, remember when the gunship circles one of the AT-AT's (I don't give a damn what they're called, they look like AT-AT's to me), door gun blazing? What species was the gunner? I initially though Chadra-Fan, but it could have been a Bothan. Would fit in with all the other references

Actually Vader had red eyes in ANH, you can see that from some angles, probably to help the actor(s) see thru the mask.

I think the Scarrif garrison was manned by personal chosen for their loyalty (and possibly connections) over their quality as commanders or soldiers, so you'd have officers that were utterly unprepared to actually lead their forces without someone holding their hand and NCOs and enlisted men who wouldn't even take a piss unless ordered to do so. I think Krennic's line "Are you blind! Mobilize the garrison!" says a lot about how unsuited the Scarrif commanders are at handling anything resembling a battle and it's not like Krennic is the paragon of competence either.

EDIT:You can just hear from his tone that Krennic is mentally facepalming when he says that line.

I think Mon Mothma, while a pacifist, wasn't averse to others who wanted to go out there and kick ass. I think she was also trying to convince the more hesitant factions.

I also like how Tarkin's "one reactor only" may have been some plausible deniable thing. According to him, Jedha's obliteration could have been covered up as some mining accident. Which considering the scale of SW, sure mining implements might actually be capable of accidentally dealing such damage. So it's not minimalism - the opposite in fact!

And the same attack on Scarif might be spun as a catastrophe done by the attacking Rebels! Why would the Empire damage its own base? Only the Rebels, filled with extremist terrorizers, would be so inhumane as to do such a thing!

And... that might explain why the DS was used on Alderaan! As payback! Obviously, for harboring terrorists with Scariff-ruining WMDs! Obviously Alderaan needed to be freedomized!

I like how Krennic, not the most competent of persons, a guy focused on developing weapons rather than stamping out insurgencies (I mean, this is like asking Lockheed's chief of weapons development and F-22 design to... do counter-espionage shit) was still a man of action and his troops - those spec ops Death Trooper badasses - were pretty competent and did tacticool firing angle things. I imagine troops like those and Vader's Tantative-asskicking boarding troops were a cut above say the grunts manning an impervious battlestation that no one would expect to be compromised by intruders (including Jedi) or even the rest of those troopers in Scariff.

Krayt wrote:Another good part was the whole scene where the Imperial tank is ambushed by the Gerrera extremists. It was great just as a battle scene, sort of what we've been missing for the past forty years, but was even better when you look a little closer. Big, slow, boxy tank? Turban-wrapped militant "extremists?" Tank gets blown up by IEDs?

I loved it.

First, Darth Vader had red eyes? Are you serious? It seemed a bit over the top to me. In the OT, he didn't need red eyes to look terrifying as all hell.

Actually in the Special Edition ANH, it is so detailed that we actually see the transparency of the Vader mask lens and we see it is red and get hints of the eyes beneath it. On one hand it's jarring and might make it seem like the costumes were cheap... but mask-lenses are by their nature see-through to some degree and IMO it actually makes it menacing, showing the human-machine hybrid of Vader. Having Rogue One keep this was cool. True loyalty to ANH.

I dug Vader's WIZARD TOWER OF HELL.

I didn't mind the fact that he hit, or that it did the maximum damage possible when it crashed, but it irked me that a blaster rifle was able to incapacitate a starfighter with a single hit. Different scales. Just like how Vader simply cannot be defeated by Rebel infantry.

I am presuming his Taoist Wushu Wuxia Force-training made him hit a super vulnerable component, some kind of Force-Fate kind of thing that made it exceptionally fortuitous for 'em.

+ I think Krennic had to go hands on and do counter-espionage despite being a director of weapons design, a freaking tech development dude, because of the social darwinism of the Empire, which is counter-productive.

I mean why is the guy in charge of the weapons development doing something that ISB or COMPNOR should be doing? Because the rest of them would rather he fail so they can advance up the ladder or secure their asses - ala Tarkin. He literally can't get any help or radio other departments for shit
the only ones he could trust fit in that wicked looking shuttle he flew around in.

Lord Revan wrote:Actually Vader had red eyes in ANH, you can see that from some angles, probably to help the actor(s) see thru the mask.

I think the Scarrif garrison was manned by personal chosen for their loyalty (and possibly connections) over their quality as commanders or soldiers, so you'd have officers that were utterly unprepared to actually lead their forces without someone holding their hand and NCOs and enlisted men who wouldn't even take a piss unless ordered to do so. I think Krennic's line "Are you blind! Mobilize the garrison!" says a lot about how unsuited the Scarrif commanders are at handling anything resembling a battle and it's not like Krennic is the paragon of competence either.

EDIT:You can just hear from his tone that Krennic is mentally facepalming when he says that line.

I'd say that Scarif garrison duty is supposed to be a cushy job. Youre basically guarding the National Archives on a tropical island. In fact id say Scarif had TOO MANY forces guarding it.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Actually in the Special Edition ANH, it is so detailed that we actually see the transparency of the Vader mask lens and we see it is red and get hints of the eyes beneath it. On one hand it's jarring and might make it seem like the costumes were cheap... but mask-lenses are by their nature see-through to some degree and IMO it actually makes it menacing, showing the human-machine hybrid of Vader. Having Rogue One keep this was cool. True loyalty to ANH.

So you're citing the Special Edition as the source on artistic taste in Star Wars. The same Special Edition where Greedo shot at Han from across the table and missed, where Jabba met Han in the spaceport moments after his hired gun tried to kill him, and where CGI lizards filled up every inch of spare screen space. If I were you, I'd review my trust in this film.

KraytKing wrote:This one's a bit trivial, but I didn't like Darth Vader's walk. He moved too much like Krennic or some other officer. Darth Vader is more machine than man, and the machine part is built like a Star Destroyer. He walks with determination. My favorite example of this is at the 11:12 mark of this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvIMX-eFRqk&t=687s

Compare to the iconic scene of Vader walking at the camera from Empire for comparison (non-Special Edition version, because the line change was fucking jarring):



Though I will say that having the Tantive IV docked to the Rebel command ship, and be seen undocking and fleeing to hyperspace makes Captain Antilles' alibi of being a consular ship on a diplomatic mission REALLY FUCKING STUPID.

xerex wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:Actually Vader had red eyes in ANH, you can see that from some angles, probably to help the actor(s) see thru the mask.

I think the Scarrif garrison was manned by personal chosen for their loyalty (and possibly connections) over their quality as commanders or soldiers, so you'd have officers that were utterly unprepared to actually lead their forces without someone holding their hand and NCOs and enlisted men who wouldn't even take a piss unless ordered to do so. I think Krennic's line "Are you blind! Mobilize the garrison!" says a lot about how unsuited the Scarrif commanders are at handling anything resembling a battle and it's not like Krennic is the paragon of competence either.

EDIT:You can just hear from his tone that Krennic is mentally facepalming when he says that line.

I'd say that Scarif garrison duty is supposed to be a cushy job. Youre basically guarding the National Archives on a tropical island. In fact id say Scarif had TOO MANY forces guarding it.

Well you need an easy cushy but high prestige job for every senator's father's cousin's former roomate or what have you .

I suspect that scarrif had that many troops so you could use it as dumping ground trash quality officers and troopers (like those graduated from the Lothal academy) but for political reasons couldn't give a dishonorble discharge as long as they didn't do anything outright treasonous. We got remember that while there's a senate the Galactic Empire isn't exactly a democracy nor is there no corruption (quite the opposite from what I've seen of the new EU) so Loyality would valued over Quality not mention that being connected to the imperial court would probably a fast ticket to promotion.

KraytKing wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Actually in the Special Edition ANH, it is so detailed that we actually see the transparency of the Vader mask lens and we see it is red and get hints of the eyes beneath it. On one hand it's jarring and might make it seem like the costumes were cheap... but mask-lenses are by their nature see-through to some degree and IMO it actually makes it menacing, showing the human-machine hybrid of Vader. Having Rogue One keep this was cool. True loyalty to ANH.

So you're citing the Special Edition as the source on artistic taste in Star Wars. The same Special Edition where Greedo shot at Han from across the table and missed, where Jabba met Han in the spaceport moments after his hired gun tried to kill him, and where CGI lizards filled up every inch of spare screen space. If I were you, I'd review my trust in this film.

the special edition was made in the 1990s, they couldn't get visors look right in the PT that were made much later, if Vader's visors were red in SE it's pretty certain they were red in the orginal theater version.

Rogue 9 wrote:

KraytKing wrote:This one's a bit trivial, but I didn't like Darth Vader's walk. He moved too much like Krennic or some other officer. Darth Vader is more machine than man, and the machine part is built like a Star Destroyer. He walks with determination. My favorite example of this is at the 11:12 mark of this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvIMX-eFRqk&t=687s

Though I will say that having the Tantive IV docked to the Rebel command ship, and be seen undocking and fleeing to hyperspace makes Captain Antilles' alibi of being a consular ship on a diplomatic mission REALLY FUCKING STUPID.

A consular ship on a diplomatic mission:



pew pew pew



pew pew



Kill everyone who comes through that door!

Is it just me, or did the two ISDs in orbit over Scarif look a little...fake? It may just be the bright sunlight on the hull and the angle, but at certain points they almost appeared to be unpainted white model plastic. As if someone built a model ISD and simply didn't paint the thing.

Borgholio wrote:Is it just me, or did the two ISDs in orbit over Scarif look a little...fake? It may just be the bright sunlight on the hull and the angle, but at certain points they almost appeared to be unpainted white model plastic. As if someone built a model ISD and simply didn't paint the thing.

I think the point is to replicate the Star destroyers seen in ANH, on purpose.

Borgholio wrote:Is it just me, or did the two ISDs in orbit over Scarif look a little...fake? It may just be the bright sunlight on the hull and the angle, but at certain points they almost appeared to be unpainted white model plastic. As if someone built a model ISD and simply didn't paint the thing.

I thought the ISD emerging from the Death Star's shadow looked like that too. Maybe we're just not used to seeing them in such detail.

Galvatron wrote:

Borgholio wrote:Is it just me, or did the two ISDs in orbit over Scarif look a little...fake? It may just be the bright sunlight on the hull and the angle, but at certain points they almost appeared to be unpainted white model plastic. As if someone built a model ISD and simply didn't paint the thing.

I thought the ISD emerging from the Death Star's shadow looked like that too. Maybe we're just not used to seeing them in such detail.

Probably that. Also, that shot was awesome.

I think the consular ship thing was their weaksauce alibi using transponders and possibly due to the sheer speed of their escape - they hoped the Empire couldn't ID them.

KraytKing wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Actually in the Special Edition ANH, it is so detailed that we actually see the transparency of the Vader mask lens and we see it is red and get hints of the eyes beneath it. On one hand it's jarring and might make it seem like the costumes were cheap... but mask-lenses are by their nature see-through to some degree and IMO it actually makes it menacing, showing the human-machine hybrid of Vader. Having Rogue One keep this was cool. True loyalty to ANH.

So you're citing the Special Edition as the source on artistic taste in Star Wars. The same Special Edition where Greedo shot at Han from across the table and missed, where Jabba met Han in the spaceport moments after his hired gun tried to kill him, and where CGI lizards filled up every inch of spare screen space. If I were you, I'd review my trust in this film.

In this case, the Vader red eyes in ANH weren't due to shitty CGI additions but due to the actual nature of the prop made more visible just due to the sheer detail of the high-resolution HD DVD blue ray shielded whatevers.

Of course you can then go "BUT THE HD DVD BLU RAY DETAILS ALSO SHOW SHITTY STORM TROOPER ARMOR PROPS" and sure you'd be right.

In this case though I don't mind this particular detail that was kept.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Probably that. Also, that shot was awesome.

I wonder if ILM was inspired by Macross when making that scene. FF to 1:00...

Galvatron wrote:

Borgholio wrote:Is it just me, or did the two ISDs in orbit over Scarif look a little...fake? It may just be the bright sunlight on the hull and the angle, but at certain points they almost appeared to be unpainted white model plastic. As if someone built a model ISD and simply didn't paint the thing.

I thought the ISD emerging from the Death Star's shadow looked like that too. Maybe we're just not used to seeing them in such detail.

I noticed that too. I think it was on purpose, they were probably looking to replicate the original look of Star Wars where all the ships were miniatures rather than CG.

As much as I liked this movie, I think it would benefit from a remastered edition in a few years. Refining CG Tarkin and Leia should be a top priority. After all, Lucas would do it.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I think the consular ship thing was their weaksauce alibi using transponders and possibly due to the sheer speed of their escape - they hoped the Empire couldn't ID them.

As I said before, I hope it wasn't a simple matter for the Devastator to chase Leia's ship down immediately after the battle. Perhaps it landed on a heavily populated world where the Empire couldn't risk being seen detaining an Imperial senator and her retinue. That could explain Vader's "there will be no one to stop us this time" line.

A city ship should have the ability to broadcast the plans. The Tantive IV (under a code name) should have been the only Rebel ship within tight band transmission range or something, discovered when the Imps siezed the ship and scoured it's transmission records for the plans. Vader orders an immediate pursuit course and when they drop out of hyperspace at Tattooine there's an Alderaan 'diplomatic ship'. The rest we know...I just can't get behind the ship being present but doing nothing at all. Fight or flee, I don't care but do something.

Kojiro wrote:A city ship should have the ability to broadcast the plans.

They might have worried about signal jamming preventing them from doing something like that. Maybe they did both, tried sending out the plans via transmission while making a hard copy - unbeknownst to them, the transmission fails.

Kojiro wrote:I just can't get behind the ship being present but doing nothing at all. Fight or flee, I don't care but do something.

Maybe it was deliberately kept out of the battle so they could rely on it being capable of fleeing the system with the data tapes they just fought so hard to obtain.

Darth Ruinus wrote:They might have worried about signal jamming preventing them from doing something like that. Maybe they did both, tried sending out the plans via transmission while making a hard copy - unbeknownst to them, the transmission fails.

That too. Using a courier to deliver the plans on physical media on might have been the only way to ensure that they reached their intended destination.

I doubt that the Tantive 4 was sitting in the hangar all battle. I'm guessing it was participating in the battle, but when Radus' ship got disabled docked with it to take the plans so that someone could escape with them. We do see plenty of corvettes fighting in the battle, any one of them could be the Tantive 4.

As for re-transmitting the plans from Radus' ship, they didn't really have time. As I recall, the Death Star emerged as they were receiving the transmission, and Vader was seconds behind. They could probably start transmitting the plans, but they don't have a massive transmitter like the one on Scarif, so I doubt they could send them as quickly. They were probably disabled a few percent into the outgoing transmission, necessitating the Tantive 4 docking to take them physically.