StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Beowulf wrote:

SirNitram wrote:

Thirdfain wrote:On second thought, you are right- all it takes is one q-ship loaded down with mass drivers or some other nasty kinetic weapon, get within a dozen AUs and you can bomb a planet into the stone age.

The original law for a nation's controlled water was one mile- the range of naval artillary at the time of the first maritime law. Let's work out a max range for strategic weapons, and use that as the controlled area around a planet.

Then whoever controls whatever colony is present in a system(Be it traditional planetary control, a Floater asteroid home, or a Lost Orbital), controls the system and it's Heliopause, dictating law within that region. Sound fair to everyone?

What if there's more than one colony in a given system?

Then it's probably a negotiated decision between the two powers. Or there's a state of active war, in which case no one's likely to enforce laws for passing through.

SirNitram wrote:
Then whoever controls whatever colony is present in a system(Be it traditional planetary control, a Floater asteroid home, or a Lost Orbital), controls the system and it's Heliopause, dictating law within that region. Sound fair to everyone?

Fine by me, I'd expect everyone but the Earth based nations would set there own laws anyway.

One mile, then three miles, then seventeen miles, twenty two now IIRC, with the addition of a 200 mile economic exclusion zone with areas well beyound that often claimed.

I said it was one mile when maritime law was started. I know it has changed since then.

What if there's more than one colony in a given system?

Then you had better start conquering! A system with more than one controlled colony is disputed. Maybe the powers in dispute can come to an agreement, maybe not.

I went through and made a list of every power so far declared, though it would seem less then half have any significant background or orders of battle. Since we have ample powers, I believe we should get around to setting a start date.


Declared powers


The New Roman Empire
The Monacoran Empire
North American Union
The Imhinik Dynasty
Pan-Slavic Republic
Oceania Union
Vector Industries
Asgard Stellar Empire
The Old School ATJ.
The Lost
Floater Republics
The People's Interplanetary Republic
The Minmatar
Raian Republic
Fenari Clans
The Confederacy of The C'tan
The Holy Skaven Empire
The Taloran Star Empire
The New nation of What's Left
The Kokand Empire
Shining Empire Soirehtyiaz

Beowulf wrote:Ho Chi Minh is Vietnamese... You might want to reconsider...

I know. I just couldn't think of any other really famous Asian communist leader apart from Mao.

Cpt_Frank wrote:

Beowulf wrote:Ho Chi Minh is Vietnamese... You might want to reconsider...

I know. I just couldn't think of any other really famous Asian communist leader apart from Mao.

Does Ghengis Khan count?

md

Edited.

Sea Skimmer wrote:I went through and made a list of every power so far declared, though it would seem less then half have any significant background or orders of battle. Since we have ample powers, I believe we should get around to setting a start date.

I should have my order of battle up by the end of the afternoon. I'm pretty much ready to play once I see a map.

SirNitram wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

SirNitram wrote:
Pretty much. The Lost won't intentionally piss people off with those ships, but it's not like they'll turn these slow-as-molasses ships around and add weeks to transit time because someone refuses to allow basic right of passage. And besides, it would rapidly become clear antagonizing one is generally unwise: It's impossible to tell how many ships are escorting it while under cloak, and it's doubtful most patrol ships can really do anything but look intimidating at it.

Course, the odds of such a force actually entering another system are basically non-existent unless they intentionally do so, and I doubt anyone would really care otherwise. With only a few systems at most in any powers hand, no ones going to be claiming vast areas of deep space.

I do however have a problem with claiming a perfect cloak, those didn't exist in DS9.

Not perfect, no, but it becomes very hard to accurately track how many ships are around a Generation Ship and cloaked, especially since some will be Phase-Cloaked.

Phase cloaks would be hard to track, but any ship under normal cloak is going to be trivially easy to track through its drive emissions unless it's running on intertia.

RedImperator wrote:

SirNitram wrote: Not perfect, no, but it becomes very hard to accurately track how many ships are around a Generation Ship and cloaked, especially since some will be Phase-Cloaked.

Phase cloaks would be hard to track, but any ship under normal cloak is going to be trivially easy to track through its drive emissions unless it's running on intertia.

But, and this is the point I've been trying to drive home, you would be very hard pressed to identify how many are surrounding the ship whose own engines are bigger than some of your ships.

SirNitram wrote:

RedImperator wrote:

SirNitram wrote: Not perfect, no, but it becomes very hard to accurately track how many ships are around a Generation Ship and cloaked, especially since some will be Phase-Cloaked.

Phase cloaks would be hard to track, but any ship under normal cloak is going to be trivially easy to track through its drive emissions unless it's running on intertia.

But, and this is the point I've been trying to drive home, you would be very hard pressed to identify how many are surrounding the ship whose own engines are bigger than some of your ships.

Quite true. There would be enough plasma being thrown around by the mother ships to act as fairly effective ECM. Just keep in mind certain powers would not be adverse to moving an entire 150-ship mobile reserve into position around the mothership should they suspect the Lost had committed an extremely unfriendly act by moving undeclared cloaked warships into their territory.

RedImperator wrote:
Phase cloaks would be hard to track, but any ship under normal cloak is going to be trivially easy to track through its drive emissions unless it's running on intertia.

Or utilizing the gravity drive of a Shenandoah

Sea Skimmer wrote:

RedImperator wrote:
Phase cloaks would be hard to track, but any ship under normal cloak is going to be trivially easy to track through its drive emissions unless it's running on intertia.

Or utilizing the gravity drive of a Shenandoah

They're still going to have to find a way to dump heat from the life support systems, if nothing else. Against the background radiation from a mother ship, this would probably be undetectable, but cloaks are going to be useless in open space unless they're used in conjnction with heavy ECM.

RedImperator wrote:
They're still going to have to find a way to dump heat from the life support systems, if nothing else. Against the background radiation from a mother ship, this would probably be undetectable, but cloaks are going to be useless in open space unless they're used in conjnction with heavy ECM.

DS9 tech, they seem to have found a way to get around that, perhaps by storing up the heat and only occasionally dumping it.

Cpt_Frank wrote:short PIR timeline.
-SNIP-

Hold on a second! That entire timeline throws out the previously established timelines here, not only in the jump to space, but also in the other nation's timeline's, namely the Monacorans!

Also are these alien invaders now known to be some other nation? Or are they still an unknown superpower?

Sea Skimmer wrote:

RedImperator wrote:
They're still going to have to find a way to dump heat from the life support systems, if nothing else. Against the background radiation from a mother ship, this would probably be undetectable, but cloaks are going to be useless in open space unless they're used in conjnction with heavy ECM.

DS9 tech, they seem to have found a way to get around that, perhaps by storing up the heat and only occasionally dumping it.

Or they're just idiots who never thought of it, which is the usual explanation when debating the effectiveness of Trek cloaking devices in Trek vs. Wars debates. As of DS9, Romulans and Klingons weren't using gravity drives yet nobody thought to track them by their plasma emissions, even though that's exactly how Chang's bird-of-prey was destroyed in ST6.

RedImperator wrote:
Or they're just idiots who never thought of it, which is the usual explanation when debating the effectiveness of Trek cloaking devices in Trek vs. Wars debates. As of DS9, Romulans and Klingons weren't using gravity drives yet nobody thought to track them by their plasma emissions, even though that's exactly how Chang's bird-of-prey was destroyed in ST6.

Or in the many decades that followed they found out that big storage tank can take care of the problume for a while. My cloaked raiders are slow, while having only a moderate armament and poor protection. They've got plenty of room for massive heat absorbing coils.


Know what, just forgot the whole thing. My desire for something different from the usual "everyone line up and blast away" combat was obviously foolish and I'm converting my submarine analog raiders into armored cruiser equivalents. I'm also redesigning my fleet to reflect the fact that I no longer have that advantage.

Alright, due to some misunderstandings with the monacoran Empire, I've decided to go a bit more in depth, and also claim a tad more teritory and a few more people (hey, while I had 200 million on earth others had Billions!)
to my nation.

Government:

The government of the Monacoran Empire is NOT an empire. It is based on the Parlimentary system, with three houses in the Parliment. The provincal house where each province elects one offical to represent them, disrict, or sub-provinvcial, house where parts of each province send members, based on population, to the house, and finally the third hosue which has 30 members based on race, for each major race within the empire though other species of aliens are more then welcome into the empire, and 70 members that are elected by the entire population. Ruling over the parliment is the prime minister who is elected by the parliment and ratified by the population. The political prince rules over this, he represents the nation's relationship with other nations, and can change/veto a Parlimentary decision, though if 75% of the parliment votes against a veto/change it reverts back to the parlimentary decision. The parliment is not supposed to have any control over the military, besides nominal control over the budget, as that is a job for the military prince.

History of the Civil War:

The civil war really started about fifty years before fighting broke out, when parliment passed an act allowing civillian militias run by parlimentary representitives to exist, over the howling protests of the Military Prince, the Political prince, by contrast, wanted to keep the parliment happy and did not veto the act.

Fifty years later as varying protests spouted by anti-monacoran sentiment began to take place throughout the empire, numerous regiments of the militas began to congregate in Andora to "Protect the representitives from unrest" soon after the Militias tried to sieze power in Andora through open revolt, however the resident Army Regiments beat them back outside into the exterior. Then Regiments were scrambled from all over the world to Andora to fight off the rebellion, then thelast militia regiments left at their home teritories began to declare open revolt, the military then turned around from Andora towards these various militias. However the provinces began protesting Monacora, the Political Prince seeing this conversed with the military prince, and declared that those who would wish to secede from the Empire could, after a provincal vote in favor of leaving. This way true all out civil war was averted.

Size and population revisited:

Newly claimed teritories:

Brazilian area near The coast, and inland.
Middle east from Israeli Coast to 200 miles east of Bagdhad, going from about 50 miles north of Al Mawsil to Southern tip of Modernday Israel.

Population:
European Teritories: 420 Million Inhabitants
Japan: 240 Million Inhabitants
Brazillian Population: 330 Million Inhabitants
Middle Eastern Teritories: 210 Million Inhabitants
Total: 1.31 Billion People

Far Point and Colony Population:
Remains the Same as Above

RedImperator wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

RedImperator wrote:
They're still going to have to find a way to dump heat from the life support systems, if nothing else. Against the background radiation from a mother ship, this would probably be undetectable, but cloaks are going to be useless in open space unless they're used in conjnction with heavy ECM.

DS9 tech, they seem to have found a way to get around that, perhaps by storing up the heat and only occasionally dumping it.

Or they're just idiots who never thought of it, which is the usual explanation when debating the effectiveness of Trek cloaking devices in Trek vs. Wars debates. As of DS9, Romulans and Klingons weren't using gravity drives yet nobody thought to track them by their plasma emissions, even though that's exactly how Chang's bird-of-prey was destroyed in ST6.

Exactly when did emissions reveal the presense of a cloaked ship in DS9? Given that, you know, knowledge of how to track that way wouldn't be lost.

Straha wrote:

Cpt_Frank wrote:short PIR timeline.
-SNIP-

Hold on a second! That entire timeline throws out the previously established timelines here, not only in the jump to space, but also in the other nation's timeline's, namely the Monacorans!

Also are these alien invaders now known to be some other nation? Or are they still an unknown superpower?

Crap!

....
It's gone.

Straha wrote:Alright, due to some misunderstandings with the monacoran Empire,

We can always put down differences in timeline to propaganda and genuine historical ignorance. History is a lie agreed upon, and are today's historians really 100% certain of how the 13th century proceeded?

As long as the years on your timeline and my timeline roughly match up, you play your games with history, and I'll play mine

SirNitram wrote:
Exactly when did emissions reveal the presense of a cloaked ship in DS9? Given that, you know, knowledge of how to track that way wouldn't be lost.

I don't care anymore. I've altered my order of battle already, I now field 319 combat, the vast majority still quite small with the same number of Black Forests, and the same 80 planetary assault vessels.

Sorry for fucking up timelines, here's the new and revised one
(I kept the über-aliens. Maybe we need a plot-device lateron):

-23rd century: nuclear civil war. Shanghai and Bejing are annihillated
-2300-2458: the Second Dark Age: the PRC is weakened by countelss
riots, revolutions, and counterrevolutions
-2458-2496: President Fu restores law and order by ruthlessly destroying
all of his opponents.
-2500-2600: age of space colonisation. The PRC becomes the PIR
-2618: several alien vessels of unknown origin attack the colony F-6.
A PIR warfleet, despite taking heavy losses, manages to destroy the
unknown invaders.
-27th century: the technology recovered from the alien vessels leads to
the development of more powerful shields and weapons systems,
although much of the superior technology remains a mystery to the PIR
scientists

I'll be posting my order of battle and history as soon as I regain internet access. Sorry if I'm a little late.

(posted from school, on a mac)