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Posted: 2003-06-21 10:14am
by Coaan
Archaic` wrote:"..."? Why are you "talking" like Shatner? :P

Meh. The AI simply isn't a challenge, it's not worth thinking about. Thankfully, the PBEM community for SMAC and SMAX is still rather vibrant, even after all these years. As for a Gaian worm army being able to overtake even a good player in the early game, that's assuming you can even get that army to them. If you're right next to them fine, but if not.....*shrugs*.
:P

I am not talking like shatnet...I am far more melodramatic with ...more ..random.. pauses!

Mrr, playing online isn't possible for me yet...trying to get by on a connection that will ultimately reset itself every 2 hours is not exactly gaming friendly. Assuming you've got a low water mass game then it could possibly work, I suppose you are right though

Posted: 2003-06-22 05:28am
by Enforcer Talen
Enforcer Talen wrote:I honestly dont understand any victory aside from conquest. apparently the planet starts talking to you, but Ive never seen past the third intermission of that.

I restarted my game at 3rd easiest, starting on the lower continent of the planet (just load planet, no randomization, and youll see where I am), and spread out extremely quickly. I had around 15 cities all population under 3, with maybe 2 improvements between them. I spawned some 30 4-2-1 walkers, and smashed through the u.n, to become sole leader of my continent. morgan is the north of me, with one square of sea between us. he has five cities, and above him is the university, with 6 cities. their cities are population 8 or so, mine are still 3. I am currently trying to figure out how to break the little guy, but he produces faster and brings them in faster - less territory. I need some 20 turns to gather my forces in a massive horde that I prefer. its basically my 15 4-2-1 landings with 4 colony pods, verses 5 cities that have no garrison, but an irritatingly fast produce rate.

bit of a stalemate, I think. and sparta, to the far east, is expanding. gaia and fundies have fallen to them already, so Im rushed for time.
bwhah, bhwah, victory once again.

so, the stalemate lasted 50 turns. I threw in new units in batches of 6, every couple of rounds, rush building defenders - they rushed built as well, with a stronger economy. it was a ww1 trenchline over a single mountain, where 35 icons marched to die. we agreed to truce, and I gatherred up my deathmobiles in cranberry dock.

in the meantime, in one of my smallest cities, a plane is built - 6-2-20. and I ponder.

I have always used planes as toys. in civ2, i never built them, and could tie emperor level without them. in alpha, I built maybe 3. but I consider my logisitcal problem, the long line of troops delayed by poor roads and rivers - and I decide flight is a pretty neat idea.

I rush build 8 planes, and bring them to the enemy continent, backed by 3 death mobiles.

I break the peace treaty, and my planes fly over like the blitzkrieg, annhilating all who stand before them. 3 of his 5 cities fall in one round, and I gain 4 secret projects. morgan begs a pact, and I agree, moving up more troops to his northern most city, where the university lies.

10 planes are built to support them, 8-2-20, and they swoop in on the eastern side, as 8 needlejets pound the reserves in the west. in 5 turns, university is down to three cities, and I demand one of them as tribute. they beg pact, and I gather my forces in the far east, 10 squares away from sparta. 40 planes simmer, and repair.

I activate the economic victory, and run overflights near my capital, wondering about a spartan rush invasion. and after 5 turns, I decide I must distract them.

I bring my airplanes across to a university port, and support with 4 deathmobiles. next rounf, all the bats fly out of hell, stripping six cities of their entire garrisons, formers, and colony pods. they are forced to bring up *probe teams* to defend, and my second wave annhilates them.

I land my death mobiles, and they sprint foward, clearning 2 cities a turn. in 10 turns, Ive gained a third of this territory, with all losses being replaced that round. I lay seige to sparta, and strip him of his garrison. he brings up a *former* to hold the city, and more deathbirds destroy it. sparta falls.

and thus, the game ends, with me holding 2 pacts, one additional nation by the throat, and all 3 controlled by my wallet.

Posted: 2003-06-22 05:32am
by Enforcer Talen
I load a new game, as morgon librarian, with a strategy of rush annhilate, clear a continent, and develop to transcendence - playing the good democracy, instead of the the heartless hive. I spread ultra quickly, colony pods or 4-2-2 death mobiles. no formers. I meet the spartans, make a deal, and slaughter the beleivers to my north. we make a treaty of peace.

I reroute all my troops to backstab sparta, half of his terrritory I bought over previous turns. just as I arrive, hive, most powerful, demands money or war, university demands tech or war, and believers do a sneak attack.

I decide I need a new strategy.

Posted: 2003-06-22 09:16am
by Enforcer Talen
new game, libriarian level, tiny map.

I build two cities instantly. the believers are to the east, spartans to my south, u.n. to my north, and hive to my west. over the course of 80 turns, I develop 4 quite lovely cities, each with a secret project and 2 farmers doing their thing. Im earning 20 gold a round and research every 7, as moragn democracy wealthy free market. Im having a ground old time with nearly the highest tech, skimming along my rivals moods, netting three very profitable peace agreements.

about the 80th turn, hive goes nuts cuz I wont give them free tech like I had been for a while. I start to get nervous, as my garrisons are low - the next turn a spartan rover conquers their capital. :lol:

what makes it only slighly less hilarious is that he was seiging mine the next round :shock: :D

Im trying to figure out how to get to transcendence on librarian. I can conquer the universe pretty easily, just cuz I have a feel for moving 90 units early on in the game with a tech rating higher then my enemy. :lol: but trying to be peaceful and develop my cities, while more interesting, is a lot harder. I have all these little projects going, instead of yet another deathmobile, in my quest for democracy/green/knowledge/eudamonic (my favorite new word btw), and while Im making paradise valley, the *other* guy leading deathmobiles takes me out.

it's a challenge.

Posted: 2003-06-22 09:54am
by Enforcer Talen
goal - morgan transcendent

lessons learned so far

*expand steadily in territory throughout the game
*maintain strong garrisons, one modern unit, one premodern unit, per city
*maintain two modern rovers per five cities
*maintain one air superioty jet per five city
*maintain one or two formers per city, and upgrade to clean as soon as possible
*trade techs often
*build as many secret projects as possible, money directed at useful ones

start by researching build and war - when air force is completed, switch to discovery and build.

anything else I should remember?

Posted: 2003-06-22 10:10am
by Archaic`
Coaan wrote: :P

I am not talking like shatnet...I am far more melodramatic with ...more ..random.. pauses!

Mrr, playing online isn't possible for me yet...trying to get by on a connection that will ultimately reset itself every 2 hours is not exactly gaming friendly. Assuming you've got a low water mass game then it could possibly work, I suppose you are right though
Your connection sounds fine to me. Very few people play IP games, simply because they'd take weeks to complete with how we play. PBEM games are the preferred, and anyone can upload a 100kb zip file of a save game as an attachment and email it. Why not come over to Apolyton and join in a game starting?

Posted: 2003-06-22 10:34am
by Xenophobe3691
I usually play the University, I don't know why. I love them too much. Anyways, the Believers always declare vendetta on me, and if I don't have a large enough tech gap they always kick my ass (I suck at fighting with turn based games for some reason.) One of my favorite hobbies end game, when I'm PG and hideously powerful, is to use a couple of drop soldiers, use orbital insertions to drop them near enemy bases, take em over, and obliterate them. It ruins your standing with everyone else, but who cares? My count's up to 10 or so million in one game, but hey, what can you do?

The first time I pulled something like that was against the damnable Hive. Apparently my drop pods had nerve agents on them (I had no idea), so he declares Vendetta on me out of the blue, after negotiating a peace with me. I discover this command (Obliterate Base), and decide to use it. Scorched Earth was a great policy, I didn't need resources and I was bored. Took me all night, but I'd managed to wipe out every person on the map, and earn myself some infamy :twisted:

Posted: 2003-06-22 12:58pm
by Coaan
Archaic` wrote:
Coaan wrote: :P

I am not talking like shatnet...I am far more melodramatic with ...more ..random.. pauses!

Mrr, playing online isn't possible for me yet...trying to get by on a connection that will ultimately reset itself every 2 hours is not exactly gaming friendly. Assuming you've got a low water mass game then it could possibly work, I suppose you are right though
Your connection sounds fine to me. Very few people play IP games, simply because they'd take weeks to complete with how we play. PBEM games are the preferred, and anyone can upload a 100kb zip file of a save game as an attachment and email it. Why not come over to Apolyton and join in a game starting?
Hm, Just might do that....where would I go?

Edit :Will need to ask about borrowing keevan's copy of it

Posted: 2003-06-22 01:50pm
by SHODAN
Vorlon1701 wrote: The first time I pulled something like that was against the damnable Hive. Apparently my drop pods had nerve agents on them (I had no idea), so he declares Vendetta on me out of the blue, after negotiating a peace with me. I discover this command (Obliterate Base), and decide to use it. Scorched Earth was a great policy, I didn't need resources and I was bored. Took me all night, but I'd managed to wipe out every person on the map, and earn myself some infamy :twisted:
Good! It is a grand and wonderful experience to incapacitate hive infestation.
Even more delightening is to capture hive bases, scrap all facilities for energy, turn entire population into talents and leave the filth to starve.

'Our citizens are starving at Sheng-ji Yang Base! Factories abandoned by hungry workers.'
'Proceed.' Image

Posted: 2003-06-22 09:20pm
by Enforcer Talen
when I play hive, I dont build facilities. and I ignore the starve note and nerve staple the rioters. keeps it quiet.

Posted: 2003-06-22 09:33pm
by Archaic`
Coaan wrote:
Archaic` wrote:
Coaan wrote: :P

I am not talking like shatnet...I am far more melodramatic with ...more ..random.. pauses!

Mrr, playing online isn't possible for me yet...trying to get by on a connection that will ultimately reset itself every 2 hours is not exactly gaming friendly. Assuming you've got a low water mass game then it could possibly work, I suppose you are right though
Your connection sounds fine to me. Very few people play IP games, simply because they'd take weeks to complete with how we play. PBEM games are the preferred, and anyone can upload a 100kb zip file of a save game as an attachment and email it. Why not come over to Apolyton and join in a game starting?
Hm, Just might do that....where would I go?

Edit :Will need to ask about borrowing keevan's copy of it
http://apolyton.net/forums

Just go to the Multiplayer section, and look around for a game starting. Also, if you don't have a copy already, scour the net for Vel's SMAC Guide V3. You'll need it.

Posted: 2003-06-23 01:25am
by Frank_Scenario
If you're new to the game, you should definitely pick up the expansion (Alien Crossfire) which adds new factions, techs, and unit types. More importantly, it adds my favorite faction: the Cybernetic Consciousness. I've gotten so good with them that my first few turns are entirely on autopilot.

It also adds the alien factions, which are phenomenally overpowered.

Posted: 2003-06-23 02:10am
by Archaic`
Frank_Scenario wrote:It also adds the alien factions, which are phenomenally overpowered.
And banned by unwritten, unspoken general agreement from almost all PBEM games.

Posted: 2003-06-23 02:48am
by Frank_Scenario
Archaic` wrote:And banned by unwritten, unspoken general agreement from almost all PBEM games.
As well they should be. I messed around with the Usurpers in single player; the fact that I couldn't make friends was irrelevant, considering that by early midgame I was over twice as large as the rest of the factions put together.

Posted: 2003-06-23 03:31am
by Archaic`
Of course, some people are disputing that ban, based on the fact that they can't earn commerce (A massive disadvantage considering just how many credits experienced players can rake in with just a few treaties), and that gassing them doesn't elict environmental or diplomatic penalties....thus leading to all players ganging up on them with X Missle Choppers at the first opportunity.

Posted: 2003-06-23 11:13am
by Xenophobe3691
Frank_Scenario wrote:If you're new to the game, you should definitely pick up the expansion (Alien Crossfire) which adds new factions, techs, and unit types. More importantly, it adds my favorite faction: the Cybernetic Consciousness. I've gotten so good with them that my first few turns are entirely on autopilot.

It also adds the alien factions, which are phenomenally overpowered.
I can't seem to find Alien Crossfire in a game store nearby, I've been looking everywhere...

Posted: 2003-06-23 12:35pm
by Stravo
Vorlon1701 wrote:
Frank_Scenario wrote:If you're new to the game, you should definitely pick up the expansion (Alien Crossfire) which adds new factions, techs, and unit types. More importantly, it adds my favorite faction: the Cybernetic Consciousness. I've gotten so good with them that my first few turns are entirely on autopilot.

It also adds the alien factions, which are phenomenally overpowered.
I can't seem to find Alien Crossfire in a game store nearby, I've been looking everywhere...
According to the Aployton website Alien Crossfire is out of print and you can only find them in bargain bins and the like. I was not a fan of Alien Crossfire, there were some bugs in it and the alien factions were a tad ridiculous. I like good old fashioned SMAC.

Posted: 2003-06-23 01:09pm
by StarshipTitanic
Archaic` wrote:Why just stick to that? Borehole everything, and just make sure you keep building Tree Farms, Hybrid Forests, Centauri Preserves and Temples of Planet, as well as trying to get to Advanced Spaceflight soon enough (You want Shard weapons anyway) to throw up a Solar Shade or too.
Who said to stick to that? It's just especially yummy there. :) I should take out the game and play a bit sometime...

Posted: 2003-06-23 01:15pm
by StarshipTitanic
Tee hee, I was after the Unity Crash Site for the elevation to start a solar farms and the Caretakers were in my way. The satisfaction of gassing their funky bases was unbelievable. :D

I really don't see how the aliens were overpowered, but then again it's been years since I've played. Care to enlighten me?

Posted: 2003-06-23 06:13pm
by Archaic`
Free Rec. Tanks, +25% on Attack/Defence, Always see all the map regardless of rules setup, always directed research regardless of rules setup, Deep Radar on all units free, plus 3 techs to begin, and a way of gathering energy that compliments infrastructure building.

Posted: 2003-06-23 06:31pm
by StarshipTitanic
GAH! I forgot about those funky buildings they could build.

Posted: 2003-06-24 04:15am
by Archaic`
Ah yes, the Subspace Generators, forgot about those. Too damn easy to build for a human player.

Posted: 2003-06-24 11:30am
by Enforcer Talen
bwhah, I think Ive discovered a combination that works.

ok, huge map of planet, transcendence the only vistory. I go to scenario edtor, and make it so Im on the southern continent with the gaians. start scenario.

my tech research goes all into discover, while my cities are put on auto explore. Ive never used this option before, and I find myself very pleased with it. colony pods, formers, and city enhancements pour out of my factories, and Ive blocked off 3/4 of my continent, and am filling it steadilly with my civilzation. Im democratic, green, and wealth, and have the most advanced tech anywhere.

I am unsurpassed over all, with all my cities in the 4-5 range. this is an unusual expierence for me :lol: 8)

of course, hive and believers hates democracy, and santiago and uiversity hates wealth, so all 4 have declared vendetta :lol: havent seen a single unit of theirs, as they are a hundred squares away. :D :D I am hoping to get knowledge social engineering soon, and then Ill make nice with santiago and university again. in the meanwhile, I get new trade with u.n. and gaia fairly regularly, and own a quarter of the wonders currently build.

I havent suffered famine or riot. this is quite ncie :)

Posted: 2003-06-24 02:07pm
by Enforcer Talen
my, but things got interesting. I bought world maps from the u.n, and could see every faction. I continued upgrading my cities (population 10! howzat!?) and maintaining my tech mastery. I watched believers ready their next crusade.

they took out u.n. first. it was ridiculous to watch. believer's didnt seem to lose one unit - it was 4-5-1s vs 1-2-1. the u.n. fell like france. I shifted my entire industry from explore to discover, cuz my main trading parter was gone.

next on the believer's list were the university. they had three cities, total, all in a row, and they fell as quickly as it took to walk the distance. I shifted my economy to money, solely, and upgraded all my formers to clean fungicidal. industy in cities boomed, with half their upkeep gone.

my taxes are currently at minimum, pscyh at 20% so that the people feel happy, and my tech is as high as it can go. with every city building labs or similar. my tech rating will skyrocket.

and I'll need the edge. the council just repealed the charter against wmds.

in an island to the far north are the hivers. I fully expect them to fall to believers next. they are weak, close, and of opposing idealougies. when I played hive, I always warred with believers.

so, game plan. when believers land troops on hive island, I switch all my industry to military, begin the building of a grand army of the republic. Ill also switch from democratic green knowledge to police state power planned. it will turn sweden into the ussr, basically.

during this switch, I will demand cities from the gaia types until they get pissed off and declare war. then my army will hit them, and Ill double my territory. while Im doing this, I will contract the spartans, and promise the moon to get a brotherhood. after gaia is toast, Ill form a navy, and give sparta anything to declare war against the believers.

then it turns 1984 - 2 superpowers vs 1, all completely powerful, and all braindead goosestepping chaingangs. with my tech advantage, I dont expect too much trouble from the believers - I already have 8-5-1 walkers and 8-5-20 flyers. and then it will be me and sparta, lords of the earth.

I'll disband my military and switch to democracy green again, but keep power. it seems to please sparta, and I want to stay friends. Ill build 20 or so planetbusters in the meantime, cancel the brotherhood, and launch all of them in one round at major cities or clusters of cities.

that should slow them from reaching transcendence :D

Posted: 2003-06-24 04:00pm
by Enforcer Talen
my god, but its horrific.

it happened about as I expected, with hive attacking believers, and I attacking the treehuggers. it was without a doubt, the finest army I have ever created. I switched to police state/wealth/green economy, made all my research for military, put 90% of my taxes into dollar cash, and had every single city producing soldiers. every now and then they had been increasing their garrisons, so I stripped all of those, and in 3 turns had a dozen artillery peices, a dozen chaos squads, and a dozen mind worms outside gaia's closest city. 3 needlejets flew cover.

what I didnt expect was that sparta was feeling left out. aside from the believers' conversion of their continent earlier in the game, we've had a very peaceful 300 turns. sparta declared agianst me *and* hive, so Im at war with all four factions! hive is losing peices to sparta, and conventional missles are hitting my shores.

I think all four factions are at war with *everyone* else. :shock: