Page 5 of 13
Posted: 2004-05-23 07:48pm
by Darth Wong
Elfdart wrote:What "authority" does Pablo have, Darth Wong? He writes a Q & A column in a fanzine where he fields questions from pre-adolescents about Gammorean Guards and Twilek Brain Tails.
Since the word "authority" was not found in my post, I wonder who you are quoting. His job falls into the category of public relations, and he handles that job by
denigrating a portion of the fanbase; do you honestly not see how he is abusing his position by doing so? If anything, the inconsequential and fan-oriented nature of his position means that it's even more important for him to avoid saying anything remotely derogatory about any portion of the fanbase.
If I were hiring someone to do fan relations for some kind of sci-fi series (any series) and he responded by trying to make fun of fans whose approach he doesn't like, I'd show him the door.
The fact that people like tiara-boy come unglued over what Pablo writes says more about them than Pablo.
The fact that your entire argument on this matter consists of
endlessly repeating the derogatory term "tiara-boy" and casually dismissing the whole criticism as "drama queen" and "whining" says more about you than it does about Ghost Rider or anyone else. I do like the way you decided to
ignore the whole "last straw on the camel's back" analogy in your reply.
Darth, if you went up to a thousand people and asked whether the SSD was 8 or 17+ km long, they would ask "What are you talking about?".
A thousand Star Wars fans? Not a chance; every Star Wars fan knows what the SSD is. And if they were asked to estimate how long it is relative to an ISD,
they'd probably ask for a picture.
If you asked any but the diehard fans, you'd get a blank stare or maybe a request for more information.
What part of "any normal person will promptly side with the movie
if a picture is shown to him" did you not understand, exactly?
Most diehards would probably take the "official" line and say 8km unless you actually showed them the screen shots. Even in that case, most would either think it was trivial or just a goof like Han Solo's arms being bound when he's lowered into carbon freeze in TESB, but unbound when he is thawed out in ROTJ.
Again you completely ignore the point, which is that they would think the 8km figure is a goof, not the movie. Pablo is one of those people who thinks that the pride of the people who wrote tech books should override any attempt to correct mistakes therein, ie- that for the sake of continuation of "precedent", they should stick to a party line rather than trying to be faithful to the films from which this entire SW phenomenon just happened to spring.
Sure I enjoy arguing over stuff like this, but I realize that I'm a tiny minority of a tiny minority. Most people -even most fans- don't care one way or the other.
The question was not whether most fans think it's a matter of great importance. The question was whether most fans would side with the "what you see is what you get" interpretation of the movies over the "we have been saying the same thing in our books for 10 years now, and we don't want to rock the boat" interpretation. Hell, most fans barely even acknowledge that the non-movie material exists at all, and its lack of faithfulness to the movies is a big part of that problem.
Posted: 2004-05-23 08:20pm
by Elfdart
Wong, we'll just have to disagree here. I don't consider it an insult toward either the fans or the "what you see is what you get" logic. Even if it was meant as an insult, it was so feeble as to not be worth the attention some have given it. The fact that Ender flames the living shit out of me for saying he's taking this article too personally tells he he's hypersensitive. And obnoxious.
As for the straw/ camel analogy, I don't even see an RCH, let alone a straw.
I suspect that the Insider gets all kinds of "How do the TIE Fighters howl in the vacuum of outer space?" questions -and not just from people who hang out here. That ignorant putz Paul Riddell has been peddling this kind of thing for several years. It probably gets even more tiring for flunkies like Pablo who actually have to read through the mail. He thought he was being clever (he wasn't) and popped off.
You say he's been pulling this shit a lot. I'll take your word for it. Then why do you bother with him? Is his opinion important to you?
I prefer Saxton's work, too. But whether it's laziness or an unwillingness to rock the boat, I doubt Lucasfilm is going to bother with things like getting the length of the Executor right. That's too bad. I think it would be a big improvement if they did. I just don't take the fact that they pooh-pooh such things as a personal slight and am amused and puzzled by those who do.
By the way, I meant a thousand regular people. Those with just a casual knowledge of SW.
Posted: 2004-05-23 08:54pm
by Darth Wong
Elfdart wrote:Wong, we'll just have to disagree here. I don't consider it an insult toward either the fans or the "what you see is what you get" logic. Even if it was meant as an insult, it was so feeble as to not be worth the attention some have given it. The fact that Ender flames the living shit out of me for saying he's taking this article too personally tells he he's hypersensitive. And obnoxious.
Ender likes to flame people. It's a stress release
As for the straw/ camel analogy, I don't even see an RCH, let alone a straw.
The fact that you didn't bother visiting the sw.com forums to see the other 500lbs of straw being piled on the camel's back does not invalidate the analogy.
I suspect that the Insider gets all kinds of "How do the TIE Fighters howl in the vacuum of outer space?" questions -and not just from people who hang out here. That ignorant putz Paul Riddell has been peddling this kind of thing for several years. It probably gets even more tiring for flunkies like Pablo who actually have to read through the mail. He thought he was being clever (he wasn't) and popped off.
When viewed in the context of his longstanding patterns, a different interpretation comes to mind.
You say he's been pulling this shit a lot. I'll take your word for it. Then why do you bother with him? Is his opinion important to you?
Who said I "bother with him?" But the subject has come up here, and I commented on it, just as you did but with more background information on the context in which this occurred.
I prefer Saxton's work, too. But whether it's laziness or an unwillingness to rock the boat, I doubt Lucasfilm is going to bother with things like getting the length of the Executor right. That's too bad. I think it would be a big improvement if they did. I just don't take the fact that they pooh-pooh such things as a personal slight and am amused and puzzled by those who do.
Again, you are obviously speaking from ignorance of the way Pablo has conducted himself on the official site's forums. He loves to make these little needling put-downs of fans who can't "get a life" (read: interpret the films differently than he does). This is particularly jarring when, as Wayne Poe pointed out, fans who stand in line for two months to see TPM are
not criticized for not having a life, while a fan who says "hey, your SSD specs are all wrong"
is criticized for not having a life.
By the way, I meant a thousand regular people. Those with just a casual knowledge of SW.
Since this thread revolves exclusively around issues relating to SW fandom, I don't understand why you would believe that people who don't consider themselves SW fans would be relevant.
Posted: 2004-05-23 08:58pm
by Gandalf
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Better take screencaps of it before it gets deleted.
I have screencapped the first 24 replies.
Posted: 2004-05-23 09:19pm
by Elfdart
Thanks to the link provided earlier, I did read some of the stuff on starwars.com's forums. I get the point about how needling line-sitters is taboo, but not science-minded fans. And I see how that might be annoying. But I don't get the hostility.
This reminds me of the people who were fed up with sites like AICN (anyone who pointed out Harry was a New Line shill was banned). AICN has been reduced to deliberately running phony stories to generate hits. If it's that bad, don't waste your time over there. If Pablo is such a schmuck, don't bother with him. He's not worth the stroke Ender seems headed for.
Posted: 2004-05-24 10:13am
by Ghost Rider
Elfdart wrote:Thanks to the link provided earlier, I did read some of the stuff on starwars.com's forums. I get the point about how needling line-sitters is taboo, but not science-minded fans. And I see how that might be annoying. But I don't get the hostility.
If you don't get the hostility don't call someone a tiara boy.
This reminds me of the people who were fed up with sites like AICN (anyone who pointed out Harry was a New Line shill was banned). AICN has been reduced to deliberately running phony stories to generate hits. If it's that bad, don't waste your time over there. If Pablo is such a schmuck, don't bother with him. He's not worth the stroke Ender seems headed for.
So are you taking back the bullshit of calling Ender a tiara boy or are you still intent on calling it your opinion?
Literally you're attacking for the same reason you're bitching...it's his opinion, but he backs it up with the thought that he does go after the source and also the source consistently makes jabs at people like him.
He's devoted hundreds of hours to his particular hobby and he finds it insulting that someone in the professional community refers to his ilk as *armchair physicist*
Posted: 2004-05-24 05:50pm
by Ender
Elfdart wrote:Wong, we'll just have to disagree here. I don't consider it an insult toward either the fans or the "what you see is what you get" logic. Even if it was meant as an insult, it was so feeble as to not be worth the attention some have given it. The fact that Ender flames the living shit out of me for saying he's taking this article too personally tells he he's hypersensitive. And obnoxious.
If you think this is anything close to where I go when I'm serious, you have another thing coming. Right now the kid gloves are still on.
And I'm still waiting to see ANYTHING from you here that isn't full of you looking down your nose at people and trolling here.
Posted: 2004-05-24 06:00pm
by Ender
Elfdart wrote:He's not worth the stroke Ender seems headed for.
Keep up the little kickslaps without having the balls to actually address me or support your opinion like the rest of us do. It means we will get a new village idiot in a few weeks.
Posted: 2004-05-25 12:32pm
by JME2
Eh, Lucas is just pissed because the authors (KJA excluded) and the fans can come up with better shit that he can.
Posted: 2004-05-25 12:55pm
by Mange
Since Pablo posted this in an open forum over at StarWars.com, is it allright if I post his answer here? If not, a mod could delete it.
Setting aside the sheer arrogance in telling a large chunk of the fan base to go stuff themselves
For those interested in what started this thread, I'll repost the answer that appeared in the last Insider. You can judge for yourself if this is indeed a way of telling "a large chunk of fans to go stuff themselves..."
***
Q: I read somewhere that Endor suffers an immense cataclysm after the destruction of the Death Star, and all the Ewoks are killed. Is this true?
A: Don't buy into anti-Ewok propaganda. It sounds like the Empire's behind that particular rumor.
Though many learned scholars and students of physics have micro-examined the Star Wars films for scientific accuracy and have come away with an entertaining degree of consistency, in some cases, science has has to be thrown out the window. Armchair physicists have to look away when a screaming TIE fighter passes through the vacuum of space, when a particularly volatile explosion combusts in an airless void, or when giant yellow letters inexplicable to the known rules of the universe float lazily into infinity. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's only a movie.
And it's a movie with a happy ending. Though there are undoubtedly any number of physical models that would indicate that the detonation of a moon-sized object in the upper atmosphere of a forest planetoid would wreak untold havoc on the local ecology, that's not what happens. It was George Lucas' intent that the fuzzy little Ewoks and their Rebel friends lived happily ever after, and nuclear winters don't fit into his model.
But there is a pseudorational explanation -- from an unlikely source: In The Glove of Darth Vader, a children's book published in the early 1990s, is a description of a wormhole that opened up during the Death Star's fiery demise and sucked debris -- including Darth Vader's indestructible glove (yeah, you read that correctly) -- all the way across the galaxy to the planet Mon Calamari.
If we accept the hazy rules of hypermatter quasi-physics and plot-convenient wormhole, then surely suggesting that the worst of the Death Star fallout also got sucked out into hyperspace isn't too much of a stretch.
***
ph
Posted: 2004-05-25 01:12pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
JME2 wrote:Eh, Lucas is just pissed because the authors (KJA excluded) and the fans can come up with better shit that he can.
I know that's a joke, but don't be quick that the opinions of the occasional Lucasfilm employee nessesarily reflects the opinions of Lucas himself or the company as a whole.
Posted: 2004-05-25 01:16pm
by JME2
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:JME2 wrote:Eh, Lucas is just pissed because the authors (KJA excluded) and the fans can come up with better shit that he can.
I know that's a joke, but don't be quick that the opinions of the occasional Lucasfilm employee nessesarily reflects the opinions of Lucas himself or the company as a whole.
Hey, in the words of a certain Insult Comic Dog:
I kid! I kid!
Posted: 2004-05-25 01:17pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
As I said, I knew you were joking, but recommending that you watch your step, partially due to the instability and mental density of some of our members.
Posted: 2004-05-25 01:18pm
by JME2
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:As I said, I knew you were joking, but recommending that you watch your step.
Far not; I'm all bark and no bite.
Posted: 2004-05-26 12:26pm
by IRG CommandoJoe
+
http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?f ... 25#6734261
I declare my allegiance!
Sorry buddy, but I don't like hot linking to them. ~ Crown
Posted: 2004-05-26 12:30pm
by Crown
I had to edit the above CommandoJoe, I hope you understand why.
Posted: 2004-05-26 12:59pm
by IRG CommandoJoe
No problem...I thought about doing that, but someone else earlier in this thread put a direct-link, so I didn't think it was a problem.
Posted: 2004-05-26 04:50pm
by nightmare
I'm taking flak already, enlightened discussion doesn't exactly seem to be promoted over there.
Posted: 2004-05-26 05:07pm
by Master of Ossus
nightmare wrote:I'm taking flak already, enlightened discussion doesn't exactly seem to be promoted over there.
In fact, it's
bitterly repressed. Not to belabor the point, but they banned me because I used logic to defend my points in a discussion, over there.
Posted: 2004-05-26 05:41pm
by nightmare
Master of Ossus wrote:nightmare wrote:I'm taking flak already, enlightened discussion doesn't exactly seem to be promoted over there.
In fact, it's
bitterly repressed. Not to belabor the point, but they banned me because I used logic to defend my points in a discussion, over there.
I can only agree from what I see. I've never looked much at the sw.com forums before - browsing it over suggested the level of discussion fits small kids at best. Maybe logic is a filtered word..
Posted: 2004-05-26 06:25pm
by nightmare
Pablo Hidalgo wrote:And I still contend that the answer that appeared in Issue #76 -- which, at one point was the topic of this thread -- did not do this, any more than the answer that appeared in issue #58 ("Karma doesn't care how hot a bounty hunter you are") belittled Boba Fett fans, or Dave Gross' patented and polished Obi-Wan Kenobi-teasing belittled Obi-Wan fans.
Now, if this thread is to become the debate ground of "Are Tech Fans Being Treated Unfairly," then I think it starts to grow beyond the scope of this forum -- the Official Fan Clubs -- since it ceases to be about li'l ol' Insider #76 -- and should probably be discussed in SW Misc. or Fan Activities. I wouldn't be surprised if there is already a thread somewhere out there.
I'm not entirely satisfied with this answer. He's basically saying "I didn't belittle tech fans, so you're wrong, case closed".
Not a very humble approach.. how about "I didn't mean to belittle anyone, and if you took it that way I'm sorry and apologize"?
Posted: 2004-05-26 06:36pm
by Ubiquitous
nightmare wrote:Pablo Hidalgo wrote:And I still contend that the answer that appeared in Issue #76 -- which, at one point was the topic of this thread -- did not do this, any more than the answer that appeared in issue #58 ("Karma doesn't care how hot a bounty hunter you are") belittled Boba Fett fans, or Dave Gross' patented and polished Obi-Wan Kenobi-teasing belittled Obi-Wan fans.
Now, if this thread is to become the debate ground of "Are Tech Fans Being Treated Unfairly," then I think it starts to grow beyond the scope of this forum -- the Official Fan Clubs -- since it ceases to be about li'l ol' Insider #76 -- and should probably be discussed in SW Misc. or Fan Activities. I wouldn't be surprised if there is already a thread somewhere out there.
I'm not entirely satisfied with this answer. He's basically saying "I didn't belittle tech fans, so you're wrong, case closed".
Not a very humble approach.. how about "I didn't mean to belittle anyone, and if you took it that way I'm sorry and apologize"?
I think that's all you are going to get off him, unless he somehow loses his ego overnight.
I think his position has gotten to him.
Posted: 2004-05-26 08:26pm
by CaptainChewbacca
There is something seriously wrong with a Star Wars fan who's using
The Glove of Darth Vader to defend their argument. I don't know why, but it seems... odd.
I saw this on TFN:
of course it is...where else could you walk around in the belly of a space slug who lives in a giant floating rock with nothing but a little hospital mask on your face? star wars that's where
Of course if you even bothered to understand the mechanics of why these scenes work, you'd knowthat the Millennium Falcon can project its shields away from itself, allowing an EVA damage check of the Falcon.
But then, that would require being a fan other fans don't like...
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Falcon's shields are actually a few millimeters INSIDE the hull to let long-range comm work, and they can't be projected out without drawing severely on the power and that projecting them out that far would prevent the Falcon from landing.
Am I crazy? Or just a fan
Posted: 2004-05-26 09:33pm
by Spanky The Dolphin
From what I know, the Falcon, just like every other shielded SW ship, projects her shields on the outside of the hull.
Posted: 2004-05-26 09:37pm
by CaptainChewbacca
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:From what I know, the Falcon, just like every other shielded SW ship, projects her shields on the outside of the hull.
Particle shields, yes, but in
Lando Calrissian and the Flamewind of Oseon he has to trick out the shields and dial them up out and away from the body of the Falcon.