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Basilisks rock. The first skirmish I played, I just went nuts with Sentinels, Russes and the flamers, but the second run on a diffrent map required artillery. Those earthshaker rounds are amusing.

I vote Basilisks the second best artillery piece to play with ever. (The Crayven HOG is the best, hands down)

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:

true, but how many force-commanders can say that they took on a Baneblade and won?

Plenty, for as soon as some of these silly bugs are fixed, the Brother-Captain will have his thunder hammer back in working order, which of course stuns vehicles. I've tested it on Predators and I can only assume it extends to the Baneblade.

...

That's stupid. How the hell do you stun a tank?

However, the Baneblade would be able to take a very large chunk out of his HP before he got to it. Those things are scary in action.

Rogue 9 wrote:That's stupid. How the hell do you stun a tank?

However, the Baneblade would be able to take a very large chunk out of his HP before he got to it. Those things are scary in action.

With a thunderhammer. If you've got a subwoofer, try turning up the bass a bit and watch the Captain for awhile in hand-to-hand, and you'll get the idea.

Rogue 9 wrote:...

That's stupid. How the hell do you stun a tank?

The explanation from the Codex: Space Marine's war gear listing is that the thing produces such intense vibrations that you always have an effect in place that causes the crew to be 'Shaken' when hit.

In-univere, of course. Game-wise, it's just a damn scary hammer!

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:That's stupid. How the hell do you stun a tank?

However, the Baneblade would be able to take a very large chunk out of his HP before he got to it. Those things are scary in action.

With a thunderhammer. If you've got a subwoofer, try turning up the bass a bit and watch the Captain for awhile in hand-to-hand, and you'll get the idea.

I have a sub, and it's turned up all the way, all the time. I know what the hammer sounds like, but we're still talking about several hundred tons of whatever the Imperium makes tanks out of.

Rogue 9 wrote:I have a sub, and it's turned up all the way, all the time. I know what the hammer sounds like, but we're still talking about several hundred tons of whatever the Imperium makes tanks out of.

Ok:

A thunderhammer is essentially a power fist with a little extra oomph. And in hammer form, obviously. In both fluff and TT, a powerfist (as wielded by a Space Marine) is plenty capable of shredding a tank. As a powerfist doubles the user's Strength (and thus thunderhammers as well), we're talking Strength 8 for one wielded by a Marine. Strength 8 also happens to be the number used by a Leman Russ's battlecannon. Ergo, a Space Marine with a powerfist in hand-to-hand is packing roughly the same punch as an MBT's main cannon. The thunderhammer has the added bonus of sheer wallop factor.

Leman Russ, maybe, but we're talking about a Baneblade. I would hate to be the Marine that caught a round from that main cannon in the face.

Regardless, in Winter Assault I've had Force Commanders charge my Baneblade before. When he's not part of a massive infantry force that simply presents too many targets for the guns, he'll be down by several hundred HP before getting within range of the tank. The Baneblade is rolling death in the game. I don't know how it is in tabletop, having never played, but in DoW one can regularly roll into an enemy base, blow up everything in it, and roll out the other side having sustained zero damage. All it takes is a Guardsman (or better yet, Ogryn) squad up front to distract enemy gunners. I have serious doubts that an FC is going to be able to destroy Baneblades singlehandedly once they get the stun ability fixed.

Rogue 9 wrote:Leman Russ, maybe, but we're talking about a Baneblade. I would hate to be the Marine that caught a round from that main cannon in the face.

Regardless, in Winter Assault I've had Force Commanders charge my Baneblade before. When he's not part of a massive infantry force that simply presents too many targets for the guns, he'll be down by several hundred HP before getting within range of the tank. The Baneblade is rolling death in the game. I don't know how it is in tabletop, having never played, but in DoW one can regularly roll into an enemy base, blow up everything in it, and roll out the other side having sustained zero damage. All it takes is a Guardsman (or better yet, Ogryn) squad up front to distract enemy gunners. I have serious doubts that an FC is going to be able to destroy Baneblades singlehandedly once they get the stun ability fixed.

Just to nitpick (;)), the main gun on a Baneblade is actually little more than a modified Leman Russ's gun (with a co-ax autocannon IIRC, the same as a Predator Destructor's). The true powerhouse is supposed to be the hull-mounted Demolisher cannon.

And yeah, in TT Baneblades and their sister vehicles can soak up a lot of damage. However, remember that like TT, DoW is a bit of an abstraction. In "reality" said Space Marine would probably be jumping on top of the vehicle and delivering blows to the weak points. Or tossing krak 'nades down wrenched-off hatches.

So does the enormous muzzle flash on the Baneblades primary kill lightly armoured units? I have to know!

If this isn't a bad thread to ask, is it usual that even in 4x4 games with friends, it's rare that the heavier vehicles are out before the game is basically decided (with one side having entrenched control over most of the map)?

OOOOOHHHH

wait does that mean that if the force commander had krak or melta grenades he would have a str 16 or would it be still just str 8?

(melta or krak granades double the strength of your highest attack, and since the powerweapon doubles your strength, eg is it commulative?)

Stark wrote:So does the enormous muzzle flash on the Baneblades primary kill lightly armoured units? I have to know!

If this isn't a bad thread to ask, is it usual that even in <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp ... x4%20games" onmouseover="window.status='4x4 games'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">4x4 games</a> with friends, it's rare that the heavier vehicles are out before the game is basically decided (with one side having entrenched control over most of the map)?

At higher levels of play, many battles can be decided in the first tier. WA has revamped the tech trees and units of all races so that tech progression is somewhat necessary to keep from being steamrolled by more advanced units. Fortunatly it is easier to advance to higher tiers and better units then it was in DOW.

DOW=swamped by lots of tier 1 or 2 units (good ones like dreads) while teir 3 units were more like icing on the cake.

WA= The person who reaches the next tier before you wins, almost always.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:OOOOOHHHH

wait does that mean that if the force commander had krak or melta grenades he would have a str 16 or would it be still just str 8?

(melta or krak granades double the strength of your highest attack, and since the powerweapon doubles your strength, eg is it commulative?)

No.
1- Nothing can go higher than S 10
2- Using logic (and not game rules) a power fist wouldn't have any effect on the strength of the grenade. You might be able to throw it further but that;s it.
3- I'm pretty sure there's some small print or a Chapter Approved FAQ that says you can't do that.



And what anti armour do the Imperial Guard have in DoW? All i've seen is the Baneblade and the Leman Russ and they're late game.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:OOOOOHHHH

wait does that mean that if the force commander had krak or melta grenades he would have a str 16 or would it be still just str 8?

(melta or krak granades double the strength of your highest attack, and since the powerweapon doubles your strength, eg is it commulative?)

TT rules and WA are mutaully exclusive in the extreame. The changes necessary to translate the TT game to an RTS format require that units behave differently.

Example: All units in DOW have an armor class: Spacemarines are heavy_infantry_med while terminators are heavy_infantry_high. All weapons have a DPS against different armor types, so a heavybolter shreds Infantry_med but does dick to Heavy_infantry_med.

IG are very noticable in this regard as they are able to combat spacemarines with out drastically outnumbering them, WITHOUT TANK SUPPORT. We all know how bad a single marine can own groups of Guardsmen, but the gameplay says otherwise.

And the IG don't get their anti-tank infantry weapons at all.

Next week our lesson will be Eldar: The gay dancers of DOOM!

2000AD wrote:

The Yosemite Bear wrote:OOOOOHHHH

wait does that mean that if the force commander had krak or melta grenades he would have a str 16 or would it be still just str 8?

(melta or krak granades double the strength of your highest attack, and since the powerweapon doubles your strength, eg is it commulative?)

No.
1- Nothing can go higher than S 10
2- Using logic (and not game rules) a power fist wouldn't have any effect on the strength of the grenade. You might be able to throw it further but that;s it.
3- I'm pretty sure there's some small print or a Chapter Approved FAQ that says you can't do that.



And what anti armour do the Imperial Guard have in DoW? All i've seen is the Baneblade and the Leman Russ and they're late game.

Sentinals are the only realistic option you have for mid game anti tank. Leman Russ' come to late and cost to much to help you if say SM is throwing dreads at you. Sents are very good at killing walkers though and the mass infantry nature of the guard makes dreads overkill in the extreem to use (they will get kills on guardsmen instantly but there are so many that the dread won't take down enough to cause alot of hurt).

So Sentinels have a lascannon? My housemate swore down that they had a multilaser.

2000AD wrote:So Sentinels have a lascannon? My housemate swore down that they had a multilaser.

The only unit in WA that is confirmed to have a multilaser is Chimera. The sent may have one but considering the difference in firepower (chimera has an average anti infantry weapon while the sent has all it's punch against vehicles) the sent likely does not have a multilaser, least in WA.

TT Sentinels have a Multilaser as default, but can swap that out for a Heavy Flamer, Autocannon, or Lascannon. Forge World also has made Rocket and Missile Launcher Sentinels as well.

The ones in Winter Assault carry Lascannons.

w0000t finally got it.

Now that I've had time to play around with it (and make every conceivable camo scheme for my 369th Cadians), it really seems like Guardsmen are way, way, way too hard. I was plowing through squads of Raptors and Chaos Marines with no casualties.

I've played a few games now, and I've got to say that the IG isn't *nearly* crap enough. With slight numerical advantage, I beat off an Eldar player (killing his guardian squads, which frankly is stupid) and forced him into a corner. I thought IG infantry was going to be weak and useless? Did I just get lucky?

Could the veteran players explain the logic behind the changes to the Eldar? I'm fine with lumping all the Warlock upgrades noone ever did into one, and removing the shrine requrement on some units... but removing Reaper addon? Having a 'mobilise for war' upgrade that appears to unlock nothing, and a 'booyah war' upgrade that unlocks TWO units and no upgrades? The changes have made it less complicated for new players to get by in the early game, but made it a 'wait for eight minutes' occasion in late. I'm glad I've never seen a game run long enough to use the Avatar!

Stark wrote:I'm glad I've never seen a game run long enough to use the Avatar!

Be glad. I rarely saw it in the original, but now the Avatar is flaming death. One game I was playing, I had easily a dozen squads of IG infantry, a bunch of Leman Russes, a Baneblade, basilisks and an unholy number of turrets and the Avatar just rolled over them all and proceeded to burn down my base.

Losonti Tokash wrote:

Stark wrote:I'm glad I've never seen a game run long enough to use the Avatar!

Be glad. I rarely saw it in the original, but now the Avatar is flaming death. One game I was playing, I had easily a dozen squads of IG infantry, a bunch of Leman Russes, a Baneblade, basilisks and an unholy number of turrets and the Avatar just rolled over them all and proceeded to burn down my base.

Just an Avatar??? You lost your entire army to an Avatar??? Including a Baneblade???

What did you do, send em out piecemeal and leave em alone for the Avatar to chew up?

Losonti Tokash wrote:

Stark wrote:I'm glad I've never seen a game run long enough to use the Avatar!

Be glad. I rarely saw it in the original, but now the Avatar is flaming death. One game I was playing, I had easily a dozen squads of IG infantry, a bunch of Leman Russes, a Baneblade, basilisks and an unholy number of turrets and the Avatar just rolled over them all and proceeded to burn down my base.

You can't have a dozen squads of Guardsmen. That goes over your unit cap.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:w0000t finally got it.

Now that I've had time to play around with it (and make every conceivable camo scheme for my 369th Cadians), it really seems like Guardsmen are way, way, way too hard. I was plowing through squads of Raptors and Chaos Marines with no casualties.

Because you're not acting like an Imperial general. Just toss 'em into the meatgrinder and they die in one bigass hurry.

Rogue 9 wrote:

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:w0000t finally got it.

Now that I've had time to play around with it (and make every conceivable camo scheme for my 369th Cadians), it really seems like Guardsmen are way, way, way too hard. I was plowing through squads of Raptors and Chaos Marines with no casualties.

Because you're not acting like an Imperial general. Just toss 'em into the meatgrinder and they die in one bigass hurry.

Commisars, armor upgrades, and priests say otherwise. Guardsmen with the appropiate attatchables and heavy weapons will SHRED SM very well. They don't outnumber marines by much but the critical mass of plasma + grenade launchers with priest and comissars make the Guard very hard indeed.

Then there are the Basilisk...

I've played some pretty large (although short) games as IG, and their standard idiots remained useful as APC-mounted grenade launcher spammers right till the endgame. After reading all the 'IG players will have to hide until they get decent units' stuff on the web, I expected TT-standard IG, and not IG that are so effective. Baneblades are ludicrous and not particularly hard to get (so long as you bash out piles and piles of generators, anyway), Basilisks are cheap, and enough grenades and even the SM run away.

I was expecting large squads of pretty useless guys backed up with slow weapons teams and armour. I have yet to get charged by heaps of melee units, so maybe the Banshees/Nobz/Possessed will change my view, but right now I see the IG as at most SLIGHTLY disadvantaged at low end (no melee, nor AT inf) and with an excellent selection of excellent units in the late game.