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We can? Well, shame on me for forgetting that little detail then... I guess the OD can do whatever it likes, then.

Well hang on a minute. What's the point of this treaty (which is supposed to prevent biowarfare, unless I'm mistaken) if all it does is make it take a few months for everybody to paste each other rather than a few hours?

Bear in mind, I'm there trying to calm the situation (even if that means grabbing a straw).

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well hang on a minute. What's the point of this treaty (which is supposed to prevent biowarfare, unless I'm mistaken) if all it does is make it take a few months for everybody to paste each other rather than a few hours?

Yeah, because breeding tens of tonnes of agents from a couple petri dishes and making them deployable is totally gonna take just a few months.

Ryan Thunder wrote: Oh, by the way, as a general note to anybody with embassies on Miratian soil, don't forget to tell your ambassadors that carrying a military firearm is illegal for civilians, and that includes foreigners off of embassy grounds. That means anything larger than a hunting rifle and/or semi-automatic and/or automatic.

That's cool, but why are you telling anybody this? Embassy staff are covered by diplomatic immunity. My BOR security people are certainly not giving up their body armor and Beryls while on duty.

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well hang on a minute. What's the point of this treaty (which is supposed to prevent biowarfare, unless I'm mistaken) if all it does is make it take a few months for everybody to paste each other rather than a few hours?

So we can all hold hands on TV at a press conferences and say "end of biowar! YAAAY!" and everyone gets re-elected, or more money/mistresses.

Coyote wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well hang on a minute. What's the point of this treaty (which is supposed to prevent biowarfare, unless I'm mistaken) if all it does is make it take a few months for everybody to paste each other rather than a few hours?

So we can all hold hands on TV at a press conferences and say "end of biowar! YAAAY!" and everyone gets re-elected, or more money/mistresses.

Won't this hurt future attempts to actually do away with these weapons by having people think that its already been taken care of?

First person to use them is obviously in violation of the treaty and "instant barbarian!" that everyone else rushes to unite against.

SiegeTank wrote:As for the Shroomanian troops on Astarian soil, it's something Shroom and I talked about a while back. They supposedly try and decontaminate the land and restore a modicum of order, but it would be very slow and basically they'd be confined to the edges of the island, whilst being confronted by zombie hordes every now and again. It was all supposed to be very 28-weeks-later-ish (hence the zombies). Obviously they wouldn't shoot at any allied ships or soldiers or somesuch - it's just that any Astarian on the island would supposedly be assumed to be infected, hence the shoot-on-sight policy. Although I'm not opposed to occasional bands of survivors turning up, really - I guess we can retcon that bit to include quarantine for any stragglers who manage to make it to the exclusion zone etc.

I have a hard time seeing how bombing Astaria will work by the way. Shep dumped lord-knows how many tons of Anthrax on the place. That shit lingers. You'd have to firebomb just about every square mile to be sure you got rid of it all. It's really not very economical, particularly considering that Astaria is in the middle of nowhere and doesn't have any significant deposits of valuable resources that can't be gotten easier (and presumably cheaper) in a place that isn't showered in Anthrax and infested with zombies...

That's the thing; Beowulf and Shep tossed so much crap I think that mission of yours to even restore the edges is downright futile if not a total waste of time. Not least, those troops may not be allowed to return to their homelands because their equipment has been totally contaminated.

Beo only tossed chemical weapons, those can at least be washed off.

I'm trying to consolidate and make all of the sides of the situation work in the "aftermath recap" post I'm doing (Fin, i've done Japanistan, will PM it later) since, alternatively, the Q-cures were recognized and were ignored, and there's a lot of stuff not filled in, and it frankly irritates me.

Of course, from a player and ex-STGOD/SD mod (on SB) perspective, the entire Pathogen War irritates me, but that ship has long sailed.

Steve wrote:Beo only tossed chemical weapons, those can at least be washed off.

I'm trying to consolidate and make all of the sides of the situation work in the "aftermath recap" post I'm doing (Fin, i've done Japanistan, will PM it later) since, alternatively, the Q-cures were recognized and were ignored, and there's a lot of stuff not filled in, and it frankly irritates me.

Of course, from a player and ex-STGOD/SD mod (on SB) perspective, the entire Pathogen War irritates me, but that ship has long sailed.

I also would like to point out there is a Commonwealth Operation actively searching for survivors at present, with the Puffin in command of the task force.

Coyote wrote:First person to use them is obviously in violation of the treaty and "instant barbarian!" that everyone else rushes to unite against.

And I go, "Nuke Them."

Here's my write-up so far, it's still in draft form of course, and I'd like to know more about the Crater Archipelago and Augustine before attempting to ascertain their status.

Aftermath of the Pathogen War


Japanistan

The Uesugi-dominated faction of the Japanistani government suffered immensely from the Pathogen War. The destruction of both their allies, by each other's hands at that, severely undermined the Uesugi Faction in the eyes of other senior officials.

Uesugi's commanders nevertheless prepared to invade South Veleria to prevent the CSR or FUN from taking control. Troops were moved into position, logistics arrangements made, subs and air units deployed... but Uesugi would never get to launch the attack. Just two days before it would have launched, with Shepistan being blanketed by further bio attacks and Astaria reeling from additional Tian Xia strikes, the Shigemoto Faction, named after Deputy Foreign Minister Shigemoto Tamon, appealed successfully to the Emperor to demand Uesugi's resignation. The loss of Imperial favor to Uesugi's faction was crippling, but it did not stop ultranationalists from assassinating Shigemoto three days afterward with various other commands in a state of new rebellion, motivated by rumors that "traitorous elements" had seized the Emperor's person and were issuing false proclaimations in his name.

Uesugi, meanwhile, was placed under house arrest by troops not under the ultranationalist sway. Faced with a trial for his subordinate's actions and general disgrace at the clear, resounding failure of his foreign policy initiatives, Uesugi committed seppuku in the traditional, grisly method of hara-kiri. His suicide poem called on his followers to stand down, but rumors quickly spread that Shigemoto's successor and new Chairman of the Sunshine Council Takeda Ieyasu had ordered the poem forged. One of Uesugi's loyal lieutenants, General Hata Mitsunori, was ordering troops toward the capital under the pretense of "securing the Emperor in safety due to unrest". Troops in the capital prepared defensive positions should Hata attempt to seize the Emperor or otherwise thwart the Takeda Faction.

Because of this turmoil, Japanistani grip on the Arabian peninsula slackened. The Byzantine Empire cautiously expanded it's influence, strongarming the two Caliphates into accepting a Byzantine annexation of Arabia proper. The Byzantines stopped at the Sinai, though, afraid to provoke a crisis that would resolidify Uesugi's followers in control or precipitate a war with Japanistan.

General Hata's troops advanced to within 20 miles of Tokyo when Hata stopped. An outbreak of resistance activity in New Sumatra was undoing years of careful repression and work in the occupied area, the resistance seizing the moment to destroy or damage key jungle bridges and roads with bombing attacks. Whether it was because he heard the Imperial Air Force was siding with Takeda or because of his excuse of social unrest no longer existing, Hata ordered his forces back into their bases and offered his resignation to the Army, which accepted.

The Takeda Faction is now in solid control of Japanistan, but the hold may be precarious. Their policy is to return to Isolationism, to cut Japanistan off from the "decadent barbarians" of the world and simply build on what had already been established by Uesugi. Japanistan's expansion into Veleria halted as such, as opposed to Uesugi's plans to conquer South Veleria. Mitsubombishi, which was seen as connected too greatly with Uesugi, especially suffered, being forced to take on the burden of the East Velerian Station just as the world's economy came to a halt and quarantines and closed borders shut down international shipping.

Nevertheless, there are many in the Japanistani Army that see the need for further expansion. Japanistan returned to Veleria in part to gain the necessary resources to maintain their own growing economy and to help fund the ongoing repression efforts in New Sumatra. In their eyes the current extent of Japanistani territory there is insufficient. While a number of mineral deposits and oil has been found either in the Japanistani-held or influenced territory or in the waters off it, the fact that substantial resources have instead come under Canissian or Cascadian control in the Katangwa Free State and Van Halstoff Territory is a sense of irritation and even outright anger to these men.

The extent of these feelings was seen in the tragic result of Mitsubombishi's sale of the East Veleria Station to the Kingdom of Zoria, where a hardliner colonel chose to gather a loyal clique of men and open the station to sacking by local tribals rather than see it handed over to "mongrel barbarians". Other such acts by hardliners are not to be discounted as future possibilities, and should anything happen to damage Takeda's isolationism policy as happened to destroy Uesugi's careful expansionism, then the Imperial Forces may yet one day seek to expand the lands that fall under the sway of the Chrysanthemum Throne.



Astaria/Veleria


The Tian Xia chemical attacks came at the worst time. Astaria, with aid from FUN, Cascadia, and some other nations, was beginning to solidify clean zones and delineate proper quarantine facilities. (OOC: The Q-cures permitted some areas to be cleared and for survivors to get to them.) The chemical attacks not only killed some of the survivors or potential survivors, they also contaminated equipment and secure areas and the attacks on South Veleria forced authorities there to switch gears and deal with local problems. The attacks also killed several key Astarian government officials that had been overseeing efforts in some of the clean zones.

Because of the chemical attacks killing laborers and other key personnel that were not already in full protection, the efforts to restrain the plagues in Astaria began to falter. Some of the Shepistani mixes were beginning to mutate, with one result being the so-called "Reaver Virus" that made victims' brains atrophy to the point that they became perpetually enraged and violent animals. The contamination of military equipment was especially severe in that it prevented a suitable volume of air sorties to purge remnant contaminated areas, excaberating the problem of mutating viruses that the treatments no longer effected (OOC: to reconcile the Q-cures with the decision of the players to undo a total nullification of Shep's bio-attacks as I'd intended, their effect diminishes or outright disappears against mutated strains).

Over the course of the rest of 2010, the surviving populations were quarantined and once cleared moved to South Veleria. The process is still ongoing, even with the remnants of the Astarian Navy and merchant marine hauling thousands of people per trip.

As of now only ten percent of Astaria is considered clear and thus habitable, most of it along the northeastern and eastern shores. This territory is not considered survivable for the majority of the population in the long-term due to a lack of sufficient agricultural and industrial base and the risk of infections due to the afflicted "reaver" populations that have clustered near the habitable zones for food. The plan is to eventually reduce the local number to just one million in the remaining clean zones, a sufficient population to engage in local industry and supportable by imported foodstuffs from South Veleria and Katangwaland. Attempts to expand the habitable zones and/or scale back the evacuation aren't being made and won't be unless further vaccines or cures are discovered, and even then it could take decades to cleanse the anthrax spores that permeate the unclear areas.

Out of a pre-war population of 75 million on the island of Astaria, survivors only number 10 million, including those foreign nationals found held in Astarian slavery that were undergoing repatriation when the Shepistani bioattack was launched.

(OOC: The Vinish search for survivors can be along the other shores. And plenty of space for San Dorado to drop de-orbiting satellites.)

The death toll in South Veleria reached 50,000 due to the Tian Xia chemical attacks (OOC: throwing a number up there, Beo didn't throw as much at them and they would've been on alert anyway, but they're also a less-developed territory) and several of the important urban and semi-urban areas suffered varying degrees of contamination, but with FUN assistance they have been cleared. A successor Astarian government set up shop in the old colonial capital of New Liberty (also known as New Schroomburg) and has effectively been rendered a devolved parilament under the sovereignty of the King of Sirnoth.

Not all Astarians have remained in South Veleria, as conditions in the relocation camps there have encouraged Astarian populations to travel elsewhere in search of better lives, if at all possible. Surviving technical experts have been especially susceptible to lures from foreign companies, especially those with existing contacts with the South Velerian nations that Astaria once called allies. As 2011 closes the world is on the verge of a potential Astarian Diaspora.

The thin thread that Astaria and San Marin used to bind the South Velerian states together and attempt to keep them in order was severed by this situation. Astarian withdrawal from a claimed territory between Alyaniyah and Zakariyah has set those two pseudo-states against each other over that claim while San Marin is attempting to cultivate international aid in suppressing the human trafficking trade in the region that, ironically, Astaria once suppressed.

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well hang on a minute. What's the point of this treaty (which is supposed to prevent biowarfare, unless I'm mistaken) if all it does is make it take a few months for everybody to paste each other rather than a few hours?

There is a HUGE difference between "sufficient stocks for defensive research" and having enough to actually go on the offensive. For starters the facilities which house the defensive research are subject to a no wait inspection. In other words the BIOCOM Inspectors have to be told where the research is taking place and they can walk right in whenever they like.
Conversely every other site which is just "suspect" or "purported" or otherwise on the site list can be inspection limited for several hours.

This was designed so that folks would be inclined to actually put their defensive wepaons out for show since you can't really pack up an entire lab (and not leave footprints) in the short timeframe so you may as well have them out in the open. At the same time you can't put bulk processing facilities into those sites because it would be discovered on a snap visit and if you tried to rush it away (or if you tried to do defensive research then send it to hidden labs) you create a trail which can be followed and which will immediately alert the rest of the world to the fact that you are developing bioweapons.

Since the last response to a nation plotting to use bioweapons was complete and utter destruction that should be dis-incentive enough even if it isn't specifically written in to the treaty language.

Moreover since everybody gets vaccination samples from the defense agents development programs the whole process is designed to appeal to everyone's fiscal snesibility: That is its a hell of a lot cheaper to just comply, get the benefits from everyone else's research and in the meantime invest the money you would have spent hiding your own program into buying enough conventional weapons that you can burn your opponents to the ground if they ever decide to violate the treaty.

So those "months" from decisions to reject the treaty to suddenly being ready for all out biowar? Ain't gonna happen because you will be found out and your opponents can attack you with overwhelming force since you've just blown billions into trying to hide the damn program...billions they spent learning how to bypass your conventional defenses to literally napalm your whole bioweapons program.

Fun Fact about Alaska: The Diplomatic service uses refined Gyro-jet weapons.

Gyrojets?

So, you can shoot someone and order a pizza while you wait for the bullet to intersect them?

Any comments on the write-up?

Steve wrote:Any comments on the write-up?

All in all, I'm quite impressed so far. So many potential story threads can be spun off, particularly with regards to Alyaniyah, Zakariyah, San Marin, and (of course) the Astarian territories proper.

For the record, I also launched a search and rescue op of my own alongside the Vinish's own effort; the whole thing's been entirely behind the scenes, though.

I'm just curious, but just how much of the Astarian Navy managed to survive the attacks, anyway?

Steve wrote:Any comments on the write-up?

It looks reasonable. Thanks.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:I'm just curious, but just how much of the Astarian Navy managed to survive the attacks, anyway?

Not a lot, after Stas sunk most of it pre-war.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:I'm just curious, but just how much of the Astarian Navy managed to survive the attacks, anyway?

Not a lot, after Stas sunk most of it pre-war.

Prior to the Pathogen War, these ships were in the Astarian Navy's inventory:
I haven't been able to find any exact figures on losses, though I could just be blind or looking in the wrong places.

On another note, I recall that there was some guy named Shroomvez mucking about somewhere in the southern parts of Velaria with surplus CSR materiel. Whatever happened to that guy?

So when are we going to hold Pacific Conference 2.0?

Zor

Not sure. Who'll be hosting it this time?

And really, what did the last one accomplish? Or will we presume that world events and such overtook the summit and killed the proposed Treaty until we could meet again?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:That's the thing; Beowulf and Shep tossed so much crap I think that mission of yours to even restore the edges is downright futile if not a total waste of time. Not least, those troops may not be allowed to return to their homelands because their equipment has been totally contaminated.

Bear in mind that it's not my mission. San Dorado sees no profit in Astaria whatsoever, so we're keeping the hell away from the place (and use it as a giant satellite graveyard/orbital targeteering grounds). It was originally Shroom's idea to have some Shroomanian/FUN troops present on the island (be it something we only discussed over IM). Hell the last bit in that post was nothing but a throwaway comment and a way to slip a cool picture of the Dover Cliffs in there. I didn't expect the Shroomanians to have any truly significant presence... And I daresay that Shroomania would have the common sense to decontaminate the land they operate on before the first soldier sets foot on it.

Anyway, I'm quite content with the status of Astaria as Steve wrote it. It at least means I can still drop satellites on the center of the island .

Steve wrote:Not sure. Who'll be hosting it this time?

And really, what did the last one accomplish? Or will we presume that world events and such overtook the summit and killed the proposed Treaty until we could meet again?

I am going to say in Serenity.

Zor

Hmm...if Japanistan went isolationist, does this mean they won't allow any more manned FASTA overflights?

PeZook wrote:Hmm...if Japanistan went isolationist, does this mean they won't allow any more manned FASTA overflights?

Well... there's always the option of some kind of negotiation and agreement. After all, they can't just cut off trade entirely from the outside world altogether.

Uh, Beowulf, I assume that was your ambassador's body guard? I forgot about that sort of thing when I specified those firearm laws. As diplomatic personnel, you may legally possess semi-automatic pistols off of embassy grounds, and, if you notify the police beforehand, you may possess sub-machine guns.