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Do you guys (and gals) feel like this film will be a rehash of ANH? The plot revolving around a superweapon is all too reminiscent of the Death Star.

SilverDragonRed wrote:Of course Bay puts more planning into his shots. How else would someone go about trying to cram as many different types of movement into each frame? The main thing I was trying to get was that neither director seems to understand or want clarity.

Abrams is better in this respect than Bay. While I agree there could be more clarity in many scenes, it is not problematic to the same degree as Bay's films. Bay's fundamental problem is that he never tones it down. All of his shots are epic regardless of whether they should be. Abrams is somewhat better in that respect.

Look at this analysis, it makes these same criticisms far better than I could:
That creator also has some other interesting related videos on cinematography.

Anacronian wrote:Should be noted that J.J has started using storyboards - he used them in Star trek into darkness and I would be very surprised if he didn't use them for Star Wars the force awakens.

Of course he used them somewhat. The problem is that he didn't use them enough. This was extremely noticeable in the scene in which Kirk and company went to arrest Khan and ended up in a major shootout with the Klingons. The action had little sense of flow and location. It was hard to tell who was where when.

I've been saying this since JJ was hired. Everything released so far seems to be confirming my worse fears.

Adam Reynolds wrote: Look at this analysis, it makes these same criticisms far better than I could:

Or just have Bay say it himself

ray245 wrote:I've been saying this since JJ was hired. Everything released so far seems to be confirming my worse fears.

oh come on lol - He's not Michael Bay. There's a few scenes he went a bit too far on in ST09 and STID but ... cinematography wise, they're not bad films.

Now sure he's helming the film but he has Disney execs breathing down his neck - they just spent $4 billion. They're not going to want 100 lens flares per frame. And you can be damn sure it was story boarded because Lucas got to see.


Abrams can direct. I trust him enough for this film... and look PT bashing aside, it cannot be worse than TPM or AotC.

I think it'll be ok.

Borgholio wrote:I'm sorry to have to do this to you all.

I had, after more than a decade of trying, just recently made peace with the whole Jar Jar Binks debacle.

You have ruined all of that hard work. I hope you're happy

Prometheus Unbound wrote:

ray245 wrote:I've been saying this since JJ was hired. Everything released so far seems to be confirming my worse fears.

oh come on lol - He's not Michael Bay. There's a few scenes he went a bit too far on in ST09 and STID but ... cinematography wise, they're not bad films.

Now sure he's helming the film but he has Disney execs breathing down his neck - they just spent $4 billion. They're not going to want 100 lens flares per frame. And you can be damn sure it was story boarded because Lucas got to see.


Abrams can direct. I trust him enough for this film... and look PT bashing aside, it cannot be worse than TPM or AotC.

I think it'll be ok.

My problem has less to do with how Abrams shoot the exact scene but more about what JJ is likely to do as a writer. I don't want an EP VII that tries to ape the OT, ESPECIALLY ANH. The vehicles seems to be a recoloured X-Wings/TIE, while the overall plot feels reminiscence of ANH with a superweapon and all. Let's not forget the fact that we are once again having a setting that mostly revolve around another desert planet that is basically the same as Tatoontine.

Those are the reasons why I think I would enjoy this less than TPM and AoTC. At the least they are very different stories.

ray245 wrote:

Prometheus Unbound wrote:

ray245 wrote:I've been saying this since JJ was hired. Everything released so far seems to be confirming my worse fears.

oh come on lol - He's not Michael Bay. There's a few scenes he went a bit too far on in ST09 and STID but ... cinematography wise, they're not bad films.

Now sure he's helming the film but he has Disney execs breathing down his neck - they just spent $4 billion. They're not going to want 100 lens flares per frame. And you can be damn sure it was story boarded because Lucas got to see.


Abrams can direct. I trust him enough for this film... and look PT bashing aside, it cannot be worse than TPM or AotC.

I think it'll be ok.

My problem has less to do with how Abrams shoot the exact scene but more about what JJ is likely to do as a writer. I don't want an EP VII that tries to ape the OT, ESPECIALLY ANH. The vehicles seems to be a recoloured X-Wings/TIE, while the overall plot feels reminiscence of ANH with a superweapon and all. Let's not forget the fact that we are once again having a setting that mostly revolve around another desert planet that is basically the same as Tatoontine.

Those are the reasons why I think I would enjoy this less than TPM and AoTC. At the least they are very different stories.

You have no idea what the story will be. None at all.

ray245 wrote: My problem has less to do with how Abrams shoot the exact scene but more about what JJ is likely to do as a writer. I don't want an EP VII that tries to ape the OT, ESPECIALLY ANH. The vehicles seems to be a recoloured X-Wings/TIE, while the overall plot feels reminiscence of ANH with a superweapon and all. Let's not forget the fact that we are once again having a setting that mostly revolve around another desert planet that is basically the same as Tatoontine.

Those are the reasons why I think I would enjoy this less than TPM and AoTC. At the least they are very different stories.

The fact that the plot starts on Jakku doesn't mean that much of it will occur there. As for the superweapon plot, who knows exactly how it will play out. It is doubtful that it is as powerful as a Death Star.

As for the assertion that it was another desert world, both TPM and AOTC heavily featured Tatooine. In addition there is the fact that Geonosis was also another desert world.

You have no idea what the story will be. None at all.

Which is why I said based on what I've seen. Sure the actual plot might be completely different from my assumptions, but all the previews and promotion is strongly suggesting many elements I dislike.

I don't particularly like the idea of recycling x-wings and TIE. Neither do I like the idea of a starkiller base. I was already dreading the notion of an updated X-Wing when they announced JJ as a director, and everything I've seen has pretty much reinforced my fears.

This doesn't necessarily mean the movie itself is bad. It's just isn't going to make me enjoy it.

Why do you dread an updated X-wing?

Gandalf wrote:Why do you dread an updated X-wing?

Presumably because it isn't new. Nevermind the fact that updated F-15s, a design that first flew before Star Wars even came out, are still commonly in service. Updated versions are even being marketed for first time buyers. Not to mention the fact that despite the visual similarities, the new X-wings are in fact an entirely new design. This is almost exactly what the US Navy did with the Super Hornet.

It actually makes a great deal of sense that the designs would largely stay the same with only minor updates. Given that Star Wars seems to be in a state of technological stasis, it would make sense that designs would not be updated all that much by the time of the OT.

Given the fact that the galaxy was in relative peace at the time of the PT, engineers that designed starfighters had little basis in real combat to determine what would make for better designs. From what we saw in the Clone Wars, there were several major designs that were popular and there was a great deal of innovation, in the face of massive swarms of droid starfighters.

By the time of the OT, it seems to be the case that there were two schools of thought. The Empire went with short ranged space superiority fighters with limited anti-ship capability(ironically an evolution of what was used by Jedi during the Clone Wars). That was left to Star Destroyers. The Rebel Alliance on the other hand went with heavy long range strike fighters(closer to what was generally used by clones). Though the Rebel Alliance also seemed to obviously have a greater degree of diversity in fighter designs, with smaller and faster designs like the A-wing or heavier and more powerful designs like the B-wing. Despite the what the EU claimed, the Y-wing gave no indication of being a bomber in the films. They seemed to simply be a slightly older fighter design.

Gandalf wrote:Why do you dread an updated X-wing?

Because it makes the Star Wars universe visually stagnant? I hate the updated X-Wing even in the EU as a kid. The EU has became so trapped in the visual aesthetic of the OT that inevitably created the whole notion that the GFFA was technologically stagnant.

If the prequels can give us plenty of new design, I do not understand why can't the sequels give us new design. More importantly, I think this sets a very dangerous trend where X-Wings will continued to be used in Ep X-XII.

Star Wars universe does not merely revolves around all the elements seen in the OT. You don't have to reuse old designs, old themes or old narratives to tell a Star Wars story. You don't have to make the whole universe revolve around a rag-tag bunch of rebels going against an Empire. That's only one tiny part of the Star Wars universe.

I think the Star Wars universe would be worse off without the prequels. Without the prequels, writers and artists would continued to be constrained by all the stuff they seen in the OT. I do not want a repeat of the old EU, when even the writers realised they have forced themselves into a corner before they embarked on NJO.

Well if a writer can't use their imagination, maybe they shouldn't write heh.

Hence the reason why I am so wary of JJ in the first place. He seems to be someone who will repeat the exact same mistake most EU writers have made, mostly because they were too attached to the OT.

I'm more interested in Rian Johnson as the director, simply because he is actually someone that makes original movies as opposed to sequels and reboot.

When JJ first original movie is basically a movie showing us how much he loves Spielberg and how much he wants to copy him...I'm not too confident in him.

I think that the optimism many people had in him as a director is misplaced.

Well don't watch it then, lol.

Prometheus Unbound wrote:Well don't watch it then, lol.

QFT.

Prometheus Unbound wrote:Well don't watch it then, lol.

No intention to unless the reviews really convinced me otherwise. JJ being secretive as ever is not going to prompt me to go into the cinema on the first week of release anyway.

ray245 wrote:

Prometheus Unbound wrote:Well don't watch it then, lol.

No intention to unless the reviews really convinced me otherwise. JJ being secretive as ever is not going to prompt me to go into the cinema on the first week of release anyway.

Good for you. Now stop fucking whining please?

Chimaera wrote:

ray245 wrote:

Prometheus Unbound wrote:Well don't watch it then, lol.

No intention to unless the reviews really convinced me otherwise. JJ being secretive as ever is not going to prompt me to go into the cinema on the first week of release anyway.

Good for you. Now stop fucking whining please?

This is a Star Wars forum. Where else am I going to voice my disappointment with the direction of the franchise?

After all, we have nearly 40 page worth of commentd about people posting how excited or how unhappy they are about a movie that have yet to be released.

ok well if you're not going to watch it (unless reviews say it's good), and since you know nothing of the story of the film (because trailers are *always* put in order and never try to mislead anyone ever), stop posting? Or make another thread about your issues.

I don't give a shit about 99% of the films on release at the moment. I don't even know what's on at the cinema. Let me check.

ah - Paranormal Activity 3D The Ghost Dimension. I am 100% certain this will be terrible. However I don't go and post on forums about it because ... no one cares that I'm not going to like it or dislike what they did with that franchise. No one.

You've made your point and explained it well. You've said you won't watch it.

Good. Now move on. There is nothing else to discuss on the topic.


EDIT: I know that sounds a bit rude, it's not meant insultingly, just bluntly. No one's ignoring you or saying your opinion is invalid. Many of us have acknowledged it, understood what you're saying, but either disagree or don't care. You're not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change the mind of anyone else either - so after many many posts (from others as well) - we all know where we stand... do we need another 5 pages? imo no.

Yeah, but when people are saying how JJ is a perfect fit for Star Wars, you ought to be prepared to defend your opinion. The fans are somewhat responsible for getting JJ into the director's chair, so they have to be responsible for TFA turns out to be disappointment.

ray245 wrote:Hence the reason why I am so wary of JJ in the first place. He seems to be someone who will repeat the exact same mistake most EU writers have made, mostly because they were too attached to the OT.

I'm more interested in Rian Johnson as the director, simply because he is actually someone that makes original movies as opposed to sequels and reboot.

When JJ first original movie is basically a movie showing us how much he loves Spielberg and how much he wants to copy him...I'm not too confident in him.

I think that the optimism many people had in him as a director is misplaced.

I hate to break it to you but this is a sequel. What a shocker that a director who makes them was chosen. Especially considering the short deadline that was required here.

Stephen Colbert predicts the ending:

Entertainment Weekly wrote:But despite the intense secrecy around The Force Awakens, Colbert thinks he has the plot all figured out.

“It has been three decades since the events of the original trilogy. The dark and mysterious First Order has stepped into the power vacuum once held by the Empire. And the newly named Resistance fights in place of the Rebel Alliance, which has begun a tragic shift to the dark side,” Colbert speculated on Wednesday. “But John Boyega’s character is in a Stormtrooper, so it follows that now the new New Hope comes from the very enemy we’ve been trained to hate.

“Remember, the Dark Side was never explicitly tied to the Empire; the Force itself exists outside of mere temporal authority structures,” Colbert added. “So I predict that dark becomes light, light becomes dark, and the very fabric of the Force is stretched to its limit as a new generation emerges to tear down the false distinctions of the past and unite all of us: old and new, moisture farmers and nerf herders, star and wars, once and for all, bringing peace to the galaxy.”

It's one of the better and more positive theories I have heard, but I suspect Rey is the new hope for this generation rather than Finn. Though Finn is presumably set to be a Jedi, so he is at least part of the New Hope.

Finn as a Jedi is interesting because of an effect that occurs in Star Wars RPGs. Jedi characters are extremely powerful but only after they fully develop their abilities. Early on they aren't very good and are extremely limited. This fits with someone with the limited skills of a not particularly skilled stormtrooper. Rey on the other hand seems to have developed her abilities more.

ray245 wrote:Yeah, but when people are saying how JJ is a perfect fit for Star Wars, you ought to be prepared to defend your opinion. The fans are somewhat responsible for getting JJ into the director's chair, so they have to be responsible for TFA turns out to be disappointment.

I don't think anyone in this thread or the entire forum has said he is a "perfect fit". You're being hyperbolic about it.