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Oh, and Thirdfain there wouldn't be any Ravages in the boneyards, they're a new cruiser design. If you want to have the salvaged ships, fine but you could at least ask me to help get them right.


And remember, they might be refitted, but those boneyards ships are still basically junk with new doodads slapped on.

There are only a half-dozen, I am gonna assume that there was enough salvage from your fleet to pull together a few units.

As for the boneyard ships, well yeah, pretty much. But a hull's a hull, and the Commonwealth and the Azegart have had months to pull these things together.

Beowulf:

Even with hypershields, a couple of dozen missiles out of the thousands HRM Alpha fired would have slipped through the frequency changers. With your vessels so lightly armored, and carrying huge amounts of munitions, those ships hit would be badly damaged if not destroyed.

Thirdfain wrote:Beowulf:

Even with hypershields, a couple of dozen missiles out of the thousands HRM Alpha fired would have slipped through the frequency changers. With your vessels so lightly armored, and carrying huge amounts of munitions, those ships hit would be badly damaged if not destroyed.

Hence me losing all the frigates and about a dozen destroyers. Those would be the ones without the spread spectrum hypershields. Armor shouldn't actually make a difference, considering that most people have shield layers just over their hulls, and hypermissiles would probably end up going past the armor anyway. Oh, and munitions don't make much of a difference, considering that they aren't like modern-day munitions in the slightest. They don't have any sort of chemical reaction going on to do something.

Spread Spectrum shields?

SirNitram wrote:Spread Spectrum shields?

Conventional (or "frequency agile") hypershields can only block a single hyperspace band at once, but can cycle fairly rapidly. However, if you throw enough missiles at it on a bunch of bands you'll "pop" the hypershield, completely bypassing it and scoring a hit on the hull. Bad mojo.

Spread-spectrum hypershields let you cover multiple bands at once but are obviously more expensive.

SirNitram wrote:Spread Spectrum shields?

Covers all of the usuable bands of hyperspace, instead of merely a couple, and trying to make sure those couple covered are the ones where the missiles are coming in.

I was under the impression those were the ones used by everyone, or at least the effect. You have to batter them down, whatever the spectrum.

I was under the impression that frequency agile shielding was the norm, and that spread-spectrum generators were quite rare.

Thirdfain wrote:I was under the impression that frequency agile shielding was the norm, and that spread-spectrum generators were quite rare.

Not rare, just expensive.

I'll go with the "spread-spectrum" ones, except maybe on destroyers...

Thirdfain wrote:There are only a half-dozen, I am gonna assume that there was enough salvage from your fleet to pull together a few units.

As for the boneyard ships, well yeah, pretty much. But a hull's a hull, and the Commonwealth and the Azegart have had months to pull these things together.

Ummm, not really. You could slap some chunks of wreckage together but anything salvaged that way is going to be worse the an obsolete ship. The ships were destroyed after all. True, but nothing else is going to change the simple fact that they're literally worn out. The ships were scrapped because they absolutely could not be saved so don't execpt any of them to be more than weak cannon fodder, either set.

I am going to assume that at least some of your capital ship hulls were simply mothballed for age. That means that there is still a generally intact hull and spine- around which more modern armor, shielding, and electronics can be placed. The Commonwealth has had enough time to build a craft from scratch forgodssake- the act of mostly reconstructing an old Azegart vessel is considerably easier.

What do you mean, worn out? has the metal rusted? All that's being used from the original is the actual superstructure. Weapons are Commonwealth or modern Azegart make, shielding and reactor systems modern Commonwealth, hull reinforcements and structural supports, modern Commonwealth. Life support and computersystems, probably made in one of the Entente powers via the outsourcing deals I made towards the beginning of the STGOD. The only reason the old hull is being used at all is for the psychological impact.

The Commonwealth has a lot of shipbuilding experience, certainly the most out of any of the young races, and is hardly strapped for cash at this point. Operations like renovating a warship, while expensive, are WELL within the Commonwealth's current capabilities.

Cracks and microfractures forming in the hull and spine, is what I think he means by worn out. It's similar to how a F-4 wing box will have worn out, even though it's not rusty.

Beowulf wrote:Cracks and microfractures forming in the hull and spine, is what I think he means by worn out. It's similar to how a F-4 wing box will have worn out, even though it's not rusty.

However, STGOD ships seem to last a long time (if they aren't blown up), so microfractures in the spaceframe may not be a serious concern for now.

Beowulf wrote:Cracks and microfractures forming in the hull and spine, is what I think he means by worn out. It's similar to how a F-4 wing box will have worn out, even though it's not rusty.

Also radiation damage from years of spacefaring, which can eventually weaken the metal. But I guess the alloys are advanced enough, as Phong mentioned, to last a long time even under bombardment.

Crayz9000 wrote:

Beowulf wrote:Cracks and microfractures forming in the hull and spine, is what I think he means by worn out. It's similar to how a F-4 wing box will have worn out, even though it's not rusty.

Also radiation damage from years of spacefaring, which can eventually weaken the metal. But I guess the alloys are advanced enough, as Phong mentioned, to last a long time even under bombardment.

I think radiation damage is moot, considering most ships have shields, which will absorb any cosmic radiation.

I am going to assume that at least some of your capital ship hulls were simply mothballed for age. That means that there is still a generally intact hull and spine- around which more modern armor, shielding, and electronics can be placed. The Commonwealth has had enough time to build a craft from scratch forgodssake- the act of mostly reconstructing an old Azegart vessel is considerably easier.

A) The Azegart don't have mothballs. It's either Battlefleet or the Boneyards. In case it's escaped your notice but it's basically the Imperium of Mankind in minature. Ships are in the line until they're literally worn out to the point they're a wreck and dangerous to operate.

B) A rebuild like that is going to take as much time as a new build and it's still going to produce an inferior ships since the basic frame isn't going to work for the the new systems.

I made those points at the time you first cooked this idea up and the deal we worked out stands. They might exist but they're going to be lousy compromise ships.

What do you mean, worn out? has the metal rusted? All that's being used from the original is the actual superstructure. Weapons are Commonwealth or modern Azegart make, shielding and reactor systems modern Commonwealth, hull reinforcements and structural supports, modern Commonwealth. Life support and computersystems, probably made in one of the Entente powers via the outsourcing deals I made towards the beginning of the STGOD. The only reason the old hull is being used at all is for the psychological impact.

What I mean by worn out is simple stress from acceleration and manuvering, irrepairble battle damage to the frames, and all the other abuses warships with a long battle history suffer. I told you at the time you first concieved this idea that these were total junkers.

And the simple fact is a rebuild like you're taling about are even more difficult since you have to cut open and rebuild a hull already in place. It's going to take longer than building it.

The Commonwealth has a lot of shipbuilding experience, certainly the most out of any of the young races, and is hardly strapped for cash at this point. Operations like renovating a warship, while expensive, are WELL within the Commonwealth's current capabilities.

Yes, and the Azegart are one of the oldest powers as well and built the damn ships. They kept them renovated and in service as long as possible but at some point ships simply have to be retired.

I feel I should note that the Azegardt are but newborns compared to quite a few of the powers in existance, and ships from before the War are still operating. Unless their ability to work metal is vastly inferior to alot of those in existance, simple old age isn't going to make the stolen frame that bad.

SirNitram wrote:I feel I should note that the Azegardt are but newborns compared to quite a few of the powers in existance, and ships from before the War are still operating. Unless their ability to work metal is vastly inferior to alot of those in existance, simple old age isn't going to make the stolen frame that bad.

Old age and battles will though. And maybe their drive system is innately stressful towards the spaceframe.

Map

Thirdfain, this is my estimate of the size of the Free Star Alliance, and if your new nation is of similar size then we should still have a large buffer zone betwen them, though that space should be mostly empty with few star system and most of them unihabitable. The Jenistat Republic should be in that area, BTW. Does that seem right?

Yeah, the border between the Cygnus and Perseus arm is unclaimed at this point, but probably contains no feifdoms besides the Jenistat Republic of any significant size as it is noticably less dense.

On that note, the map really should be updated.

Could also delete my holdings over the Azegarte space. LEft them pages ago, and blasted the sector capital to pixie dust...

The Commonwealth has conquered fairly significant areas of the interveneing space (The current Shiva province, and now Brisbane) and hass extended the FSU out to the border we agreed upon back in the beginning of the STGOD. So expansion in that direction is done for, and the region out to the Perseus.Cygnus arm border is under either direct Commonwealth control or influence.

Kyle, I was wondering where you hosted your map?

Thirdfain wrote:Sigh. People really should start conquering worlds instead of just BDZing.

It was way beack when those Affronter guys wanted a free Azegart. I left. And as I don't want them really in control of others, I made sure no one would use that planet in the next few centuries...