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RogueIce wrote:Beowulf speculating in a chat does not equal our overall game-playing strategy, no matter how many times you stamp your feet and declare it to be so.

Yeah, naming a date for the attack is just speculation, dickwad.

MKSheppard wrote:

RogueIce wrote:But this move is bullshit. Using OOC information to justify your attack? Horseshit Shep.

Yeah, because I'm so supposed to let my country get hit by a surprise attack when I'm away at the USAF museum in August? Yeah. Right. Sure.

You can go fuck yourself with a rusty blender.

Right, because 1 plan out of the 30 or so unfruitful ones I've made this STGOD, reaches your ears, you decide that it's cause for war, and cheat your ass off. Take that rusty blender and shove it up your own ass. If you'd just man-upped and admitted you want to turn the world into ash, we'd probably be posting a real response. But no, you have to be a blowhard and think that the world revolves around you, and a bit of idle speculation to inject some life into a flagging chat is suddenly a plot to kill you while you're gone.

Stas, give me your calculations. I must ponder!

MKSheppard wrote:

RogueIce wrote:Beowulf speculating in a chat does not equal our overall game-playing strategy, no matter how many times you stamp your feet and declare it to be so.

Yeah, naming a date for the attack is just speculation, dickwad.

Yes, because naming a month(two, actually!) is really naming the exact date you leave for Wright-Pat.

MKSheppard wrote:

RogueIce wrote:Beowulf speculating in a chat does not equal our overall game-playing strategy, no matter how many times you stamp your feet and declare it to be so.

Yeah, naming a date for the attack is just speculation, dickwad.

Fine:

Beowulf talking in a chat does not equal our overall game-playing strategy, no matter how many times you stamp your feet and declare it to be so.

There, happy? It doesn't matter. Even if he was at that point totally and 100% planning on it, it doesn't make it MESS policy or strategy. Whether in-universe or out of it. Nor does it mean that he was ever going to follow through on it. He never mentioned it in the Mess itself; had he done so, for all you know, we would have just talked him out of it anyway.

But it doesn't matter whether he was totally serious and intent on it or not. You used this OOC information to justify your attack. That doesn't fly in STGODs and this is hardly the first time we've called you on it.

Beowulf wrote:If you'd just man-upped and admitted you want to turn the world into ash, we'd probably be posting a real response.

Even if he retcons it to that I say fuck it. He's pulled this stunt before and I have no reason to believe he won't do it again.

I'm sick of dealing with it. Take him out of the game for cheating one too many times.

We need a referee with a SCORECARD.

August or September? That's, like, YEARS in-game! Man, Shep!

I'm willing to just ignore it, then, if we want. Majority rules, as stated.

Ignore it or ride it out. Which shall it be?

I say let's him look at the response.

RogueIce wrote:I'm sick of dealing with it. Take him out of the game for cheating one too many times.

Nope. You can go fuck yourself. You spent most of this STGOD designing your militaries around conventional assets, with the MESS having an enormously outsized navy for it's overall size; in an attempt to secure total conventional dominance over other power blocs in the STGOD, which you know, actually did work; nobody can really challenge the MESS conventionally.

I on the other hand, did not want to break my country in a futile conventional military buildup to match you conventionally, so I adopted the US Policy of the 1950s and developed nuclear assets, to the point where it's the only real policy option I have.

Unlike you, I don't have the ability to blockade a country or impose economic embargoes with a Navy, and unlike movies, you can't send a small, elite special force into Tian Xia to blow up their R&D program and kill the scientists. So that leaves only a nuclear response as being open to Shepnukistan, to pre-emptively strike Tian Xia before they can deploy this system.

And since attacking a single member of the MESS means war, then you'll have to attack them all.

Hence the massive attack right from the get go. If you don't like the cold logic of that, then you shouldn't be in a STGOD where you can build large numbers of nuclear weapons.

You know Shep, as Beowulf said, if from the get-go you had said "Well I'm first striking, just in case" we would've been "Well shit. Oh well, we knew it would come to this eventually" and moved on.

But instead you spent the last three pages of this thread justifying your move over a damn chat log that has zero relevence so far as this game is concerned. That's why we said "Fuck this shit, hell no".

So no. Fuck you. You could've just launched, or even made up some damn pretext and come out and said that, or even just said it was a preemptive strike because you somehow got wind of what Tian Xia was up to (doubtless because he bothers to post his R&D as it goes, unlike some who just show up with finished products one day). That would've been fine.

But no, you did it on the pretext of our imminent strike which wasn't happening and argued with us over it for three damn pages. Too late to change now.

RogueIce wrote:But instead you spent the last three pages of this thread justifying your move over a damn chat log that has zero relevence so far as this game is concerned.

Yes, because me putting forth a justification for the attack in military logic is bad; while

"O Hai, lets nuke the MESS right now, just for the hell of it, I like to see the pretty mushroom clouds and beautiful sunsets from all the dust in the air, and millions dead" is acceptable to the STGOD?

Boom!

20 kT devices: 30 Saddam - 40 Shep -10 Coiler (80 total out of 122). Each with 100 kgs of cobalt. Calculate the dispersal rates yourself.
30 kT devices: 40-40 roughly equal, none for Coiler. Each with 100 kgs of cobalt.
Kh-45 1MT warheads, four and all versus Shepnukistan's reactors.
400 kt devices: 25-25 roughly equal, none for Coiler. Each with 400 kgs of cobalt.

Spaceborne missiles: two used against Shepnukistani CVBGs. Two used against Saddamistani capital. Yield: 10 kT. 100 kgs of cobalt.

You are welcome, Shep.

MKSheppard wrote:

RogueIce wrote:But instead you spent the last three pages of this thread justifying your move over a damn chat log that has zero relevence so far as this game is concerned.

Yes, because me putting forth a justification for the attack in military logic is bad; while

"O Hai, lets nuke the MESS right now, just for the hell of it, I like to see the pretty mushroom clouds and beautiful sunsets from all the dust in the air, and millions dead" is acceptable to the STGOD?

Nothing's stopped anyone else from doing something batshit insane before.

Your nuking the Diocese town over the loss of an aircraft in which the aircrew survived was all out of proportion to the incident but we didn't harp on you about that, did we?

Same thing with firing off those nuclear missiles at my convoy.

Those you didn't even try to justify, you just did them. We chalk it up to "Well he's crazy and loves his nukes".

Had you done this mass attack for shits and giggles we would've been annoyed yes, but it would've gone through while those who sat on the sidelines shook their head at the insanity of the UAR.

But since you didn't do that... *shrug*

MKSheppard wrote:

RogueIce wrote:But instead you spent the last three pages of this thread justifying your move over a damn chat log that has zero relevence so far as this game is concerned.

Yes, because me putting forth a justification for the attack in military logic is bad; while

"O Hai, lets nuke the MESS right now, just for the hell of it, I like to see the pretty mushroom clouds and beautiful sunsets from all the dust in the air, and millions dead" is acceptable to the STGOD?

Because cheating your ass off is military logic. You're like Gen Paul Van Riper. We'd accept you going crazy and ordering the end of the world. We don't accept you taking what starts as idle musings, and get developed a bit, based off of systems the MESS or just Tian Xia was planning on deploying, and turning that into justification for war, from a discussion that you weren't a part of, and had no real policy making efffect.

Stas Bush wrote:Boom!

Hey, someone who wants to play the game, instead of whine like the MESS!

Hm, Mach 5 Hypersonics are tough to intercept; I assume they're randomly weaving back and forth to prevent interception?

As for the fighter-borne tactical nukes, I'd probably say quite a lot were expended merely to break through the crust of Shepnukistani air defenses; exploded in air to air, to knock down Shepnukistani interceptors, or on radar sites, etc to open the path for later aircraft...

As for the nuclear reactors, they weren't damaged in the civil war; because both sides were relatively sane, and while they were willing to nuke a city or two, they didn't want to hit the reactors, due to a hugeass fallout plume.

As for Coilerburg.... It's served it's purpose as a strategic target sponge.

As for Coilerburg.... Laughing It's served it's purpose as a strategic target sponge.

He was just too annoying to let him live after all the shit he pulled.

Stas, you did realize that PeZook and I had guys on the ground in Coilerburg, right?

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Stas, you did realize that PeZook and I had guys on the ground in Coilerburg, right?

I thought you were taking them away?

Stas, you did realize that PeZook and I had guys on the ground in Coilerburg, right?

I launched a nuclear attack against UAR. I would presume that many nations, and myself included, had spy agents in their cities. Their fate is a dreadful death, but that's to be expected in case of such a war.

RogueIce wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Stas, you did realize that PeZook and I had guys on the ground in Coilerburg, right?

I thought you were taking them away?

Yes, I was withdrawing them, but time's been my greatest enemy as of late. I almost never have time to check up, much less draft posts, until late in the evening.

I just hope nobody minds if I just throw something together and then backdate it, but again, I just don't have the time right now.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Yes, I was withdrawing them, but time's been my greatest enemy as of late. I almost never have time to check up, much less draft posts, until late in the evening.

I just hope nobody minds if I just throw something together and then backdate it.

Well you announced the intention to do it, at least. I think. It was in IU wasn't it?

Oh, you can retcon-evac them, after all the survival of a few agents is not that big of an issue.

as much as i hate to do this to Shroomy......a FUN member did launch a nuclear attack on me....sorry mang.

Stas Bush wrote:Oh, you can retcon-evac them, after all the survival of a few agents is not that big of an issue.

Or you could have a fucking epic survival story, where Liquid Shroomy, the FUN's secret agent in Coilerburg survived in a bunker for five years by eating algae and human corpses!