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MKSheppard wrote:So who wants to sell me subsonic light attack planes/trainers?

Nobody who wants to live.

Astaria naturally has oppositional parties such as the Astarian Communist Party. Perhaps Stas would support these chappies, I dunno.

Sorry I just found that link and I had to share!

Me: (Links to Markov Umbrella Murder)

Lonestar: So, in order to kill someone but make it look otherwise...you stabbed him with a knife.....

Me: Shepistani intelligence is not the sharpest bunch of crayons in the kit, but we make up for it with sheer brutality and audacity

So Shepistani intelligence officers carry out assassinations themselves?

Man, let me tell you...your people really ain't the KGB

MKSheppard wrote:So who wants to sell me subsonic light attack planes/trainers?

The IRT has Hawk and Goshawk birds for sale in addition to more advanced aircraft like TA-49T Skyhawk (as a second-generation light aircraft, it is ... cheap, but may be too much for a new pilot)

phongn wrote:The IRT has Hawk and Goshawk birds for sale.

Sale was made to Japanistan for their SU-17 analogues. But the IRT can have the Avonics integration contracts.

Is there even any kind of precedent for having a diplomat assisinate somebody directly like that under cover of diplomatic immunity?

I mean I knew they'd spy and stuff, but I figured there was a line they didn't cross. Like actually pulling the trigger (or in this case, stabbing the knife).

So has Shep basically gone where even the KGB wouldn't go, or is there some kind of precedent here?

This poison knifing has me wondering-- if we're going to attack someone (on a personal level, like this, or on a national level), do we have to announce to the Moderator beforehand, via PM, that we're using "special" weapons in the attack?

I'm just wondering how it'll work in the future.

RogueIce wrote:Is there even any kind of precedent for having a diplomat assisinate somebody directly like that under cover of diplomatic immunity?

There may have been some cases in the epic story that is the Cold War intelligence game, but only in extreme cases and never of actual diplomats during a diplomatic function like this one.

I mean, intelligence officers are valuable: What if Al-Tikriti was shot by security? Or worse, what if he kept him for, say, 48 hours (I really could've played this better...), waterboarded/bought him and turned him into a double agent?

Besides, he blew his cover. He has no eye, his face will be well-known by everyone, and thus he is useless both as a "legal" operative (since nobody will accept him in embassy staff) or an "illegal" one, since he's too characteristic. Basically, it's throwing away a lot of money and effort put into training one of those people well.

From a purely economic standpoint, high profile assassinations like these, using a full-fledged intelligence officer are a total waste. Especially since the effect upon the Old Dominion will be...minimal, all things considered.

Also, the entire incident did other damage: people are throwing out Shepistani diplomats, which means "legal" networks are getting shut down/shunted to "illegal" officers. It's really not a good trade, especially since "legal" networks are really, really effective and relatively risk-free for the operatives - so not only does he lose some agents his people painstakingly recruited, his future operations will also be a lot more risky (and thus, costly) in the future.

RogueIce wrote:And just because I personally suspect that the "coincidence" or some mine that just so happened to hit one of my ships that just so happened to be near the approachs to one of my bases so shortly after Shep has been such a massive dick lately is no coincidence at all doesn't mean I'm leaping to war or anything, FYI.

I don't think you HAD to have a ship hit with an ancient WW2 mine

RogueIce wrote:Whether that's Shep's true intentions I really don't know. But if it isn't he's doing a hell of a job trying to make us think otherwise.

Testing out your ASW defenses, of course, and seeing how effectively he can use his sea denial systems against your giant navy.

PeZook wrote:Also, the entire incident did other damage: people are throwing out Shepistani diplomats, which means "legal" networks are getting shut down/shunted to "illegal" officers. It's really not a good trade, especially since "legal" networks are really, really effective and relatively risk-free for the operatives - so not only does he lose some agents his people painstakingly recruited, his future operations will also be a lot more risky (and thus, costly) in the future.

ISI is not exactly the most competent intelligence agency, after all

phongn wrote:I don't think you HAD to have a ship hit with an ancient WW2 mine

I figured it was either that or just have them randomly float along, waiting for somebody else to remember them and have it hit say, a civilian LNG tanker.

At least now I have a reason for my mine warfare assets to go cleaning.

phongn wrote:Testing out your ASW defenses, of course, and seeing how effectively he can use his sea denial systems against your giant navy.

By placing actual weapons that could potentially kill people? That's his idea of a test?

If he keep that sort of thing up, he'll get to test his homeland defenses against our entire military. He's treading on thin ice as it is, and we've not even been going for a week.

PeZook wrote:Also, the entire incident did other damage: people are throwing out Shepistani diplomats, which means "legal" networks are getting shut down/shunted to "illegal" officers.

Which is bad how?

I mean, I just eliminated all of the SIGINT/ELINT outposts you have in my country, and shut down your legal networks; meaning I can put the full force of the SID onto your illegal networks -- I can't waterboard your diplomatic consul without severe repercussions, but I can waterboard your illegal agents and pull their fingernails out without any repercussions.

As for losing my legal networks in your capitals? Not that much of a blow, since 95% of my intelligence is done by "dirty" methods, which can't be handled by "legals"; because they can be identified and permanently PNGed.

MKSheppard wrote:Which is bad how?

I mean, I just eliminated all of the SIGINT/ELINT outposts you have in my country, and shut down your legal networks; meaning I can put the full force of the SID onto your illegal networks -- I can't waterboard your diplomatic consul without severe repercussions, but I can waterboard your illegal agents and pull their fingernails out without any repercussions.

As for losing my legal networks in your capitals? Not that much of a blow, since 95% of my intelligence is done by "dirty" methods, which can't be handled by "legals"; because they can be identified and permanently PNGed.

These legal niceties didn't exactly stop you assassinating Miranov with someone claiming diplomatic immunity, now did they?

Which makes your entire last paragraph so much bullshit. You already abused the "legal" network to assasinate another diplomat. You obviously didn't give a damn about that distinction anyway.

RogueIce wrote:
These legal niceties didn't exactly stop you assassinating Miranov with someone claiming diplomatic immunity, now did they?

Which makes your entire last paragraph so much bullshit. You already abused the "legal" network to assasinate another diplomat. You obviously didn't give a damn about that distinction anyway.

Strictly speaking, he assassinated a cabinet member of another country.

RogueIce wrote:You already abused the "legal" network to assasinate another diplomat. You obviously didn't give a damn about that distinction anyway.

Just like the Soviet Union!

But even the Soviets maintained the appearance of such distinction. You're just blatantly behaving badly for shits and giggles.

MKSheppard wrote:

RogueIce wrote:You already abused the "legal" network to assasinate another diplomat. You obviously didn't give a damn about that distinction anyway.

Just like the Soviet Union!

They, at least, managed to maintain some shred of deniability.

Yes, we may be cutting off "legal" avenues of intelligence gathering. You, meanwhile, went from "somewhat mistrusted, but we're willing to be diplomatic still" to "almost an international pariah" nearly overnight.

I'd say, overall, you lost more than we did. Especially since our "legal" intelligence networks were in just as much danger as any illegal operatives we may or may not have, realistically.

Have fun with those budget documents, Shep. Any "black" projects we'd undertake on behalf of the MESS haven't been started yet (your constant dickery keeps sidetracking our conference before we can make decisions about those things). So they haven't been budgeted yet, much less hidden so you can try and "analyze" what they might be.

So you basically have what's public information anyway. Enjoy!

RogueIce wrote:So you basically have what's public information anyway. Enjoy!

Actually, I'm emulating the Soviet Union further. They actually did do this; they would buy just about everything the GPO printed, and then had it air freighted direct to the Soviet Union for study and analysis.

MKSheppard wrote:Actually, I'm emulating the Soviet Union further. They actually did do this; they would buy just about everything the GPO printed, and then had it air freighted direct to the Soviet Union for study and analysis.

If we have an internet, it's probably on there anyway. But my government thanks you for your kind donation to enable the GPO to continue doing its job.

EDIT: At least until I sack the whole thing when some beancounter tells me I can't buy something I want.

EDIT2: Whoops, confused the GPO with the GAO. Oh well. I'll sack them, too. For publishing the form the GAO uses to tell me I can't buy something I want.

Coyote



AIR MECH STRIKE! AIR MECH STRIKE! TANKETTES! SPARKY!

Sort of OOC: I'll just assume that the MESS sent a ROV over to take a picture of the nameplate and serial on the mine, and then blew it in place; because as far as they knew; the mine was an actual 60 year old one that had been slowly corroding in place; the explosives becoming more and more unstable...

MKSheppard wrote:Sort of OOC: I'll just assume that the MESS sent a ROV over to take a picture of the nameplate and serial on the mine, and then blew it in place; because as far as they knew; the mine was an actual 60 year old one that had been slowly corroding in place; the explosives becoming more and more unstable...

Sure, why not?

It's logical enough. We don't know where that first mine came from, after all. So it would make sense that if we found one, "identify it if possible" would be up there on the list of orders.

I kept it vauge enough that you can invent your own procedures for that since I don't happen to know what they are.

MKSheppard wrote:

RogueIce wrote:So you basically have what's public information anyway. Enjoy!

Actually, I'm emulating the Soviet Union further. They actually did do this; they would buy just about everything the GPO printed, and then had it air freighted direct to the Soviet Union for study and analysis.

Of course, if I remember Friedman correctly, they then refused to believe the military part of it, incredulous that the US and NATO had that small a military.

MKSheppard wrote:*snip combatreform reference*

bahahahahaha.

EDIT: seriously though, the Germans have been doing this shit since the 80s. and these 'air-mech-strike whatever group' fucks think they're advertising revolutionary concepts?

i reiterate; bahahahahahah!