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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Two tsardoms = 1 imperium, by their combined GDPs.

Anyway, as for militaries, it's obscene. How does Wilkonia get a half dozen aircraft carriers? I mean... fucking New Zealand has a GDP bigger than any Tsardom. Hell, New Zealand makes for a pretty good match for an Imperium - for that matter.

Tsardoms have 400,000 men in their military. That's obscene, our economies can't handle THAT.

I think it's time to up the scale of the economies as well.

Even an Imperium by GDP gets...a STOVL carrier with what, 30 fixed-wing aircraft? And that's just one. And planning to build an LHD which is about the same.

So yeah. We'd either have to revise GDPs or have massively smaller militaries.

Us Tsardoms have about the equivalent financial might of... Mexico.

Actually Mexico is, like, more than a hundred billion richer than us...

RogueIce wrote: So yeah. We'd either have to revise GDPs or have massively smaller militaries.

Which wouldn't be all that bad, really

What we need to do is peg the prices of our militaries. Otherwise, we'd just spam like nobody's business.

PeZook wrote:

RogueIce wrote: So yeah. We'd either have to revise GDPs or have massively smaller militaries.

Which wouldn't be all that bad, really

Which one?

Although keep in mind that means reducing a lot of things too with those GDPs. Even the MESS combined had maybe something above Japan and a little over 1/3rd the GDP of the US (initial levels anyway).

FASTA wasn't just a nice diplomatic move for space exploration, it was about the only option we had for our more ambitious plans if you think about it.

Shroom
Tsardoms would be a bit under the Netherlands as of 2007.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:What we need to do is peg the prices of our militaries. Otherwise, we'd just spam like nobody's business.

To be honest, I basically operated under the assumption I could afford a military roughly the size of my initial one. Economic growth would let me gradually expand it, but in general the size would be the same.

I suppose though we'd have to revise the whole ship exchange rate for initial loadouts. I don't think two CGs really equals a whole CVN...

Actually, here's an issue, if a Tsardom is under Netherlands, the most we could possibly own is 1-2 Nimitz Carriers, and not like even 3 or 6 of them.

Using the active players of the MESS, our combined GDP is about the Netherlands + Japan.

We would have to continental because honestly, our overseas force projection would probably suck if we kept this economy.

Why don't we designate and base our economies on real-life nations? PeZookia gets Sweden or something, the more prominent Tsardoms (like me!) get an upgrade to Canadian/Australian/ 1st world economies... Shep gets North Korea and Skim can have his Super Saddam Special post-Gulf War Iraq!

RogueIce wrote:Using the active players of the MESS, our combined GDP is about the Netherlands + Japan.

We would have to continental because honestly, our overseas force projection would probably suck if we kept this economy.

To be honest, I think we need to make most nations continental (I don't mind having mine next to Stas, if he still wants to play) so that there's actually some land battles. Fleets are just simply too expensive for us to maintain. At best a pool of money would produce 3-4 Nimitz Carriers and their escorts.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Why don't we designate and base our economies on real-life nations? PeZookia gets Sweden or something, the more prominent Tsardoms (like me!) get an upgrade to Canadian/Australian/ 1st world economies... Shep gets North Korea and Skim can have his Super Saddam Special post-Gulf War Iraq!

Possible, but I want to have the economy of at least half of S. Korea's. Theirs is trillion strong, with 50million people.

How about everybody get 10 thousand people and has to build everything he owns from scratch...oh, wait, we already have that, we don't even need to reboot the game

I say cut all armies in half, uprate the duchies and principalities to make them more even with kingdoms and put people of land masses rather than islands, and we'll be good

Perhaps Shroomania can literally be Australia. With the Duchies and Principalities and other small FUN nations I'm buddies with forming a sort of... archipelago nearby. Like Indonesia! But cooler!

[Shroomania is weird enough to be Australia.]

This will make map-making a pain in the ass though.

Coilerburg gets to be Somalia. He can be the ugly wart that sticks out of one of the big nation's asses. Not mine though

Or we could just look at the militaries we were given and boost the economy appropriately.

I rather like being able to do stuff on a global scale.

We could just organize the masses (I prefer clusters of islands mainly so I don't have to get a new map ) to group up alliances. Pretty much everyone who was still playing was a part of one of the alliances anyway. Though if you try and switch sides you're screwed.

Plus it reduces the whole bomber/missile spam because that'd be a lot of clustered air defenses to deal with.

We then have the various third world shitholes but on pretty large landmasses so nobody can really take them over. Or something like that. Give us something to do instead of basically turning any conflict into a World War. But at the same time make it so you can't do a landgrab or anything like that, not without massive expenditures and time (which would thus give the other alliances the chance to do something about it). And enough of these "rogue states" to give us a variety of scenarios (Iraq/Iran type places, Somalia type, what our Terra Libertia turned into, etc.).

Plus then we'd have the economies to do the ambitious stuff like space colonies, fusion power, etc.

You know, I don't envy the guys up there on the ALMAZ station.

They have no means of getting home unless somebody goes up and gets them, and they had to watch the world destroy itself. Now they're stuck in orbit inside a two-person tin can with a month or so worth of supplies, Korolev spaceport almost certainly got nuked...christ. Horrible fate.

PeZook wrote:You know, I don't envy the guys up there on the ALMAZ station.

They have no means of getting home unless somebody goes up and gets them, and they had to watch the world destroy itself. Now they're stuck in orbit inside a two-person tin can with a month or so worth of supplies, Korolev spaceport almost certainly got nuked...christ. Horrible fate.

You didn't give them an escape pod?

Oh well. They could always find a way to try and blow a hole in the hull and end it that way...

I think my launch pad got destroyed when Shep destroyed the RT ports.

RogueIce wrote: You didn't give them an escape pod?

It was planned as the first space station in a longer series ; AFAIK, the ALMAZ module only has one docking port on the site, and it was kept clear for the Soyuz supply capsules to fly there.

Shroom might be able to organize a rescue, though, if he really didn't get nuked. The Titan-I prototype is still there, sitting at Comona Island...

RogueIce wrote:Oh well. They could always find a way to try and blow a hole in the hull and end it that way...

It wouldn't be all that difficult, really

Certainly better than slowly suffocating as the oxygen runs out...

Shroomania will save them... if we are continuing this fiasco. If not, then they won't have real problems.

You mean Stas gave Shroomania some of his rockets before the.. well..

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:You mean Stas gave Shroomania some of his rockets before the.. well..

Zor tested a winged booster prototype capable of hauling 5 tons to low orbit. It should be able to get a bare-bones re-entry capsule with a small deorbit motor up there, or at least haul some supplies untill a proper solution can be found.

Unless we are rebooting, in which case...well...

I'm heavily in favour of restarting it, assuming everyone still wants to play.

I think I'll spend some time reflecting on the human propensity for conflict before I jump head-first into another one of those things

PeZook wrote:I think I'll spend some time reflecting on the human propensity for conflict before I jump head-first into another one of those things

A break? Well, I dunno. If we go into a break, quite likely, the game will never restart for a long while.