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The other half is the atrocious acronyms! The Fungal Advance Response Team strikes again! FART!

Vineyards? Why the hell anyone needs to talk to them? Are they invading the CFR? Are their forces acting alongside Beowulf?

If no, there's no need to include them as party to negotiations. Because then you'd also include the Old Dominion because it supported Beowulf's actions... it just makes no sense.

Frankly, Indhopal's demands were clear cut. No negotiations can proceed at the same time as Beowulf is grabbing land, that would be pathetic and an insult to any sensible politician.

Just FYI, Indhopal has my personal respect, also. It's not much coming from a retired old geezer who walks around blabbering about the triumphant socialism, but I kinda grew fond of the political line Raj managed to pursue with his nation - not a lot of power, not a lot of weapons, but still he's standing up for the principles that shaped his Republic IC-wise. That is more than commendable.

The logical counter-argument to Indhopal's position is that halting military ops only gives that Mortimer guy more time to recoup his losses and dig in, thus ensuring higher casualties once the process resumes, not to mention further humanitarian concerns if he does things like forced conscription and labor to prepare for holding out.

Of course, I do understand why Indhopal has to have such a position - anything else is basically accepting TX's actions as a fait accompli and, of course, risks that TX won't just walk out of talks on an international solution and return to "it's our's now".

Maybe a viable counter-solution would be to send Indhopali troops into the Claim backed by the IAF? It gets around the concern of giving Mortimer time to recover and gets your troops on the ground as well. Granted, there's perhaps some risk of TX and Indhopali forces shooting at each other then, but this whole situation is already replete with risks.

Steve wrote:The logical counter-argument to Indhopal's position is that halting military ops only gives that Mortimer guy more time to recoup his losses and dig in, thus ensuring higher casualties once the process resumes, not to mention further humanitarian concerns if he does things like forced conscription and labor to prepare for holding out.

Of course, I do understand why Indhopal has to have such a position - anything else is basically accepting TX's actions as a fait accompli and, of course, risks that TX won't just walk out of talks on an international solution and return to "it's our's now".

Maybe a viable counter-solution would be to send Indhopali troops into the Claim backed by the IAF? It gets around the concern of giving Mortimer time to recover and gets your troops on the ground as well. Granted, there's perhaps some risk of TX and Indhopali forces shooting at each other then, but this whole situation is already replete with risks.

Things are liable to be total mess even wth an international peacekeeping force in Mortimer's claim. Mortimer fell back to that region because his ethnic group, the O'Donnell clan, is based there. Therefore Mortimer has signifigant support in the region and any foreign force in the area will more than likely be seen as invaders. There is a reason Indhopal at least has never really attemptd to go in there; no need to stick my hand into a wasp's nest with Yorkshire securing Indhopal's border.

A multinational force is simply the least worst option given the Huang-Di's stated goal of annexation. I can't let that sort of shit stand in my backyard.

Stas Bush wrote:Vineyards? Why the hell anyone needs to talk to them? Are they invading the CFR? Are their forces acting alongside Beowulf?

If no, there's no need to include them as party to negotiations. Because then you'd also include the Old Dominion because it supported Beowulf's actions... it just makes no sense.

Subject: SDNWorld Redux: Story Thread the Fourth

Karmic Knight wrote:VInish CFR Command, Shroomston, The Southern Republic

After a short exchange of diplomatic notes, the Vinish CFR Forces began to mobilize, the VCFRF activated the Blue Infantry Brigade, the Cyan Infantry Brigade, and the Coal Helicopter Brigade to launch operations in support of the Tian Xian Forces already acting in Mortimer’s Claim. Of the 32 Mirage 2000 Fighters the VCFRF had at its disposal, none were sent to any higher alert than ten minutes.

Unless I'm reading that completely wrong, than they are directly involved in what is going on. Hence why they are a planned party to the talks.

Stas Bush wrote:Frankly, Indhopal's demands were clear cut. No negotiations can proceed at the same time as Beowulf is grabbing land, that would be pathetic and an insult to any sensible politician.

Yes. You will notice my public statement called for just that, in fact.

Stas Bush wrote:Just FYI, Indhopal has my personal respect, also. It's not much coming from a retired old geezer who walks around blabbering about the triumphant socialism, but I kinda grew fond of the political line Raj managed to pursue with his nation - not a lot of power, not a lot of weapons, but still he's standing up for the principles that shaped his Republic IC-wise. That is more than commendable.

That's more or less what I'm trying to do now. Granted I was inactive for a bit, but you'll recall this has been my general predisposition since the last game. There are political realities I face though which would prevent me from outright condemning my allies as I'm sure you're aware, which is why I'm taking the steps I am; though you'll note I have not ruled out just biting the bullet if it keeps up.

At any rate, now that I have finished season four of The Wire I have time for you all again.

I am going to come out and say that the TXAF going on alert is backdated and is not subsequent to their agreeing to the proposal. That whole post actually takes place before mine, I was just quicker on the Submit button than Beo. Since he's standing down combat ops and Raj is, presumably, standing down his alert, so too would be the TXAF in the current time. So nobody get all excited by it, ok?

BTW I seriously doubt Tian Xia's strikes have wiped out Mortimer and his entire upper echelon. That would be too damn convenient for everyone.

Raj Ahten wrote:BTW I seriously doubt Tian Xia's strikes have wiped out Mortimer and his entire upper echelon. That would be too damn convenient for everyone.

Probably not everyone, but maybe a few. And if nothing else they'll be driven underground anyway. Intelligence isn't always perfect at any rate.

BTW, realistically I think it's about time I go into the final phase of Cascadia's program for a new generation of tanks. As I decided some time ago that Cascadia's not really into production of top-of-the-line tanks (artillery, yes, armored vehicles, no), odds are we'll be going to get licenses for a foreign design. So, any takers?

Note that the licensing deal and such would be even bigger now that the PacUnion's going to get formed and the Adabani and Alaskan armies will also see the upgrades.

Raj Ahten wrote:BTW I seriously doubt Tian Xia's strikes have wiped out Mortimer and his entire upper echelon. That would be too damn convenient for everyone.

Not all, but most of them. Bear in mind that the first clue they got was the SRAM IIs hitting their palaces. And the remainder are probably going to be more interested in running with their money than actually staying to coordinate a insurrection. Svalbardia is probably a good place for them to run to.

Steve wrote:BTW, realistically I think it's about time I go into the final phase of Cascadia's program for a new generation of tanks. As I decided some time ago that Cascadia's not really into production of top-of-the-line tanks (artillery, yes, armored vehicles, no), odds are we'll be going to get licenses for a foreign design. So, any takers?

Note that the licensing deal and such would be even bigger now that the PacUnion's going to get formed and the Adabani and Alaskan armies will also see the upgrades.

I offer the Shinra Republic M4 main battle tank. The next generation successor to the M1 main battle tank. Whatever the fuck that should be.

Which probably means ripping off of whatever good ideas I see of what a next-gen MBT should be, since I don't know what those are. But I did develop such a thing. I'm just not super detailed in development posts.

Beowulf wrote:

Raj Ahten wrote:BTW I seriously doubt Tian Xia's strikes have wiped out Mortimer and his entire upper echelon. That would be too damn convenient for everyone.

Not all, but most of them. Bear in mind that the first clue they got was the SRAM IIs hitting their palaces. And the remainder are probably going to be more interested in running with their money than actually staying to coordinate a insurrection. Svalbardia is probably a good place for them to run to.

There is also the rest of the CFR, though they really aren't popular outside of their enclave. I suppose someone could always have some fun catching Mortimer's bigwigs trying to sneak through customs in a crappy disguise.

Steve wrote:BTW, realistically I think it's about time I go into the final phase of Cascadia's program for a new generation of tanks. As I decided some time ago that Cascadia's not really into production of top-of-the-line tanks (artillery, yes, armored vehicles, no), odds are we'll be going to get licenses for a foreign design. So, any takers?

Note that the licensing deal and such would be even bigger now that the PacUnion's going to get formed and the Adabani and Alaskan armies will also see the upgrades.

Byzantium offered the B-3 Black Tiger and the B-2 Black Panther. Both with the latest equipment and electronics, and equipped with a ETC gun, 140mm and 120mm respectively. Also, they come with rocket guided munitions, with a theoretical range of up to 8km.

RogueIce wrote:I offer the Shinra Republic M4 main battle tank. The next generation successor to the M1 main battle tank. Whatever the fuck that should be.

Which probably means ripping off of whatever good ideas I see of what a next-gen MBT should be, since I don't know what those are. But I did develop such a thing. I'm just not super detailed in development posts.

An M1-derived vehicle? Same concept of gas turbine engine + composite slanted armor with up-to-date C3I systems, but with a 120mm L/55 gun for extra velocity and perhaps a turret-mounted anti-ATGM system?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Steve wrote:BTW, realistically I think it's about time I go into the final phase of Cascadia's program for a new generation of tanks. As I decided some time ago that Cascadia's not really into production of top-of-the-line tanks (artillery, yes, armored vehicles, no), odds are we'll be going to get licenses for a foreign design. So, any takers?

Note that the licensing deal and such would be even bigger now that the PacUnion's going to get formed and the Adabani and Alaskan armies will also see the upgrades.

Byzantium offered the B-3 Black Tiger and the B-2 Black Panther. Both with the latest equipment and electronics, and equipped with a ETC gun, 140mm and 120mm respectively. Also, they come with rocket guided munitions, with a theoretical range of up to 8km.

Our most likely foe ATM is Japanistan, with Tian Xia a very distant #2 (that would require Beowulf going mad), so that's going to determine what kind of tank we inevitably pick up. Which actually gives you a bit of an advantage given your likely foe and thus use of those tanks. Granted, one potential issue for the designs is that your tanks' primarily use, likely, is in maneuver in the deserts of Arabia and Egypt against Japanistan, while we'd have to either fend with them in the arid steppes or coastal jungles of Veleria or, again requiring a madness of Beo, holding the line in our northern river valleys against a horde of TX tanks backed by the TXAF.

I have Merkava infantry tanks. Those sound like something that could be useful to you in your overseas patrol operations..

GAAAAH! NOOOOOOOO!

If I go with making the Pacific Union Navy, then the acronym would be..... PUN.

PRN it is I guess. Or maybe UPRN.....

Edit: Czech, the Army will scream bloody murder if they don't get a bleeding cutting-edge tank design in operation. The entire thing is supposed to be my avatar's olive branch to them to make up for being the first President to cut the Army's size without it being the end of wartime.

Pollux, letting you make a response to that post before I do more.

It's never just one international crisis at a time with us is it?

Steve wrote:GAAAAH! NOOOOOOOO!

If I go with making the Pacific Union Navy, then the acronym would be..... PUN.

PRN it is I guess. Or maybe UPRN.....

Edit: Czech, the Army will scream bloody murder if they don't get a bleeding cutting-edge tank design in operation. The entire thing is supposed to be my avatar's olive branch to them to make up for being the first President to cut the Army's size without it being the end of wartime.

Merkava III isn't -that- old. And I'm but a mere duchy, and not allowed to have anything new like the Merkava IV coming into service, so it's not, no sirree...

We offer T-95. 152 mm smoothbore (40-42 rounds) autoloader, unmanned turret, ~50 tons, attached ATGM pods, next generation active defences, over 1500 hp (top forcing to 1800 hp) gas turbine or X-shaped diesel engine. 80 km speed at roads, over 50 maximum at rough terrain. Power/weight no less than 24 hp per ton. Fire control includes thermal targeting equipment and a radar, other than usual optic, IC and laser (LASAR) equipment. The crew compartment housing 3 men is isolated from the rest of the tank, giving it greater survivability. Information is fed to displays inside the compartment. EMP hardening for all vital internals of the tank. Armor: multi-layer combined scheme, equivalent protection against sabot rounds no less than 1000 mm, against cumulative around 1500 mm. Range: no less than 500 km on roads. Gun can be used to fire guided missiles.

The current works on pushing the engine power from ~1650 hp to ~1800 hp will yield performance of around 95 kph top road speed, 60 kph on country roads.

Steve asked if the IRT would have anything in Misteria, so I'm pondering a few things (which then he or someone else can control):

• Empyrean Airlift (for getting people out, and possibly getting arms in)
• Major naval lift to get people out (possibly)
• Outright conflict
• Nothing

Stas Bush wrote:We offer T-95. 152 mm smoothbore (40-42 rounds) autoloader, unmanned turret, ~50 tons, attached ATGM pods, next generation active defences, over 1500 hp (top forcing to 1800 hp) gas turbine or X-shaped diesel engine. 80 km speed at roads, over 50 maximum at rough terrain. Power/weight no less than 24 hp per ton. Fire control includes thermal targeting equipment and a radar, other than usual optic, IC and laser (LASAR) equipment. The crew compartment housing 3 men is isolated from the rest of the tank, giving it greater survivability. Information is fed to displays inside the compartment. EMP hardening for all vital internals of the tank. Armor: multi-layer combined scheme, equivalent protection against sabot rounds no less than 1000 mm, against cumulative around 1500 mm. Range: no less than 500 km on roads. Gun can be used to fire guided missiles.

The current works on pushing the engine power from ~1650 hp to ~1800 hp will yield performance of around 95 kph top road speed, 60 kph on country roads.

Christ if tanks like that are now the norm my Leopard-2's are in need of an update. Not like my army has a hope of standing up to likely conventional threats anyway though.......

Just what exactly is Beowulf doing in the CFR? He's "standing down" but still posing as the "official government which runs the place"? Meaning that the Indhopalis would have to operate under his authority and admit his territorial claims? I think he has to renounce these territorial claims before anyone would want to work with him (and possibly he did that, I just didn't see a proper IC post yet).

Also, keep in mind the UCSR acknowledged the Misterian revolutionary government as legitimate. I don't think an attempt to overthrow it by the IRT in open war would be tolerated (thus it would most likely be met with a proxy war). Other options that don't include attacking Misteria wouldn't cause much reaction from the UCSR i guess.

Raj Ahten wrote:Christ if tanks like that are now the norm my Leopard-2's are in need of an update. Not like my army has a hope of standing up to likely conventional threats anyway though.......

That are typical characteristics for a 4th generation tank (and also somewhat below the construction demands that were made in the early 1990s for the Soviet 4th gen tank). Also, we just contemplated shipping some arms through the IRT - we can ship you some of these tanks... for a reasonable amount of monies, I believe. And no, the Leopard 2 is still a decent tank. It's like the very top of 3rd generation. So I don't think it's so bad.

The UCSR only has an inventory of some 500 T-95s, though. And it's sale has... extreme CATO restrictions for authorization, as it's the prime modern tank now. Some parts of equipment may be removed. We're more readily selling uprated T-90s (the T-90-S model) than we are the T-95, I believe.

Also, the Japs have enormous tanks of theirs. You could try milking them for their 100 ton monstrosities, mayb they'd sell a few. Those woudl be real overkill.

Stas Bush wrote:Also, keep in mind the UCSR acknowledged the Misterian revolutionary government as legitimate. I don't think an attempt to overthrow it by the IRT in open war would be tolerated (thus it would most likely be met with a proxy war). Other options that don't include attacking Misteria wouldn't cause much reaction from the UCSR i guess.

Oh no, we're not going to attempt to overthrow the Misterian revolutionary government. For one, we don't really have much of an army to do so with