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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Erm, PeZook, Hydrofoils are the worst possible platforms for ASW, chiefly because they are bloody noisy.

Actually, there was much interest in ASW hydrofoils, mainly for their high speeds; they would sprint at 70 kts, then stop and lower a sonar dome, listen, then sprint ahead, and repeat.


Highpoint Hydrofoil


PLainview Hydrofoil

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Erm, PeZook, Hydrofoils are the worst possible platforms for ASW, chiefly because they are bloody noisy.

When they're up on foils they are, yes. What i was thinking that they'd operate in squadrons something like this:

1. Possible contact is made

2. One foil remains slow, two go up on foils and move quickly to intercept the sub, while the slow one feeds them data on the contact.

3. Once in the area, they slow down and ping

4. Then they shell any possible contacts with cheap hedgehogs

Possible problem I can see is that the two "interceptors" will interfere with sonar of the "listener" while movin to intercept.

It's just a concept, anyway. If foils are too problematic, we'll just spam classic gunboats

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:As for missiles, I and Stas are jointly working on some cool stuff to exceed even the P-800 missiles.

I choose the P800 because it's pretty much developed. The FUN can just modify it and start spamming to equip the SSGNs.

MKSheppard wrote:Actually, there was much interest in ASW hydrofoils, mainly for their high speeds; they would sprint at 70 kts, then stop and lower a sonar dome, listen, then sprint ahead, and repeat.

Yeah but, why didn't anyone deploy them in the end?

Also, wouldn't any sub commander of any sense run silent below the thermal line if he heard these ships running like mad?

PeZook wrote:I choose the P800 because it's pretty much developed. The FUN can just modify it and start spamming to equip the SSGNs.

The Oscar II already has the same missiles as the Kirov battlecruisers. I might just buy the specs from Stas and build a few of my own later.

As for the idea of 3 hovercraft tracking a sub, no need; no sub can exceed 35 knots, except the Alfas, and there are plenty of torps that can hit 70 knots.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Also, wouldn't any sub commander of any sense run silent below the thermal line if he heard these ships running like mad?

If we force the sub below the thermocline, it's just as good: its combat capability will be severely reduced. I am thinking the role for those ships would be coastal patrol, maybe convoy escort.

And, of course, they can always launch a Very Smart Torpedo and tell it to go under the termocline and start looking ]

Fourth Continent = MESSamerica. Which I've just been calling "America" in posts.

Phew. Can't believe I actually made my OOB, or at least calculated my Army, Navy and Airforce. It's still a very rough calculation and the composition and placement of battle units has only been calculated for the Navy.

To various buyers - of course the CSR will soon sell all that stuff it promised

Got any heavy high-altitude interceptors?

PeZook wrote:Got any heavy high-altitude interceptors?

Technically, the MIG-31 and the F-15 are more than adequate for the job. The F-14 was similarly equipped for it.

Ah, forgot the MiG-31. Well, serves me right. I'll say that I'm making it on a crash program.

Stas Bush wrote:Ah, forgot the MiG-31. Well, serves me right. I'll say that I'm making it on a crash program.

Which is a better interceptor? MIG-31 or F-15? I know the former is a dedicated interceptor, but the latter does have fairly respectable speed of MACH 2.5+.

Stas Bush wrote:Ah, forgot the MiG-31. Well, serves me right. I'll say that I'm making it on a crash program.

Check your PMs.

Which is a better interceptor?

The MiG-31 is an outrageously powerful rocket with a pilot more than a fighter, basically. Of course it has better capabilties as a dedicated interceptor.

Stas Bush wrote:

Which is a better interceptor?

The MiG-31 is an outrageously powerful rocket with a pilot more than a fighter, basically. Of course it has better capabilties as a dedicated interceptor.

How much do you want for them, and how do systems integration costs look like?

Your capitalist monarchistic neighbor would like some something to defend against bombers

Stas Bush wrote: BM-21 MLRS with supplies are being procured by the Old Dominion. The whole deal could be sealed at 400 million, according to the release.

Typically, you name a per-unit price, then I agree or disagree, or haggle, or scale back or increase the size of purchase, or issue other requirements associated the deal, before you announce "Yeah, The Old Dominion is buying this at x amount of dollars." When I haven't even recieved the price from you yet.

This leads me to conclude that you do not move merchandise in good faith, and you are amateurish in the executions of fulfilling contracts. The deal is off.

How much do you want for them, and how do systems integration costs look like?

Say $40 million - basically I build you like, 10-20 machines.

MiG-31s (upgraded to the MiG-31B standard) are currently being built, and the production will be ramped up to 50 per year before this year's end, so you can have 5 of them.

Lonestar wrote:Typically, you name a per-unit price, then I agree or disagree

They would've worked at 1,6 million per each, but fine, if you choose to take my utter lack of time for an insult - I said the deal "could be closed", not that you are "buying" - that's just a prelim release. Not that I really wanted to sell stuff to America. I can bomb Shep myself if I need to.

Someone... BUY MY F-16s!

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Someone... BUY MY F-16s!

Those things are so expensive that I'm planning to buy F-22s instead

EDIT: On the Mig-31, I would like to deploy four squadrons (48 aircraft), but the problem is that they'd need to use standard FUN (NATO) missiles. Systems integration may be impossible or at the very least - prohibitively expensive, hence why I'm asking.

Goddamn it! They carry MORE missiles and MORE bombs than an F-22 can ever could, and can go just as fast! They're the best strike fighter available, they have TWENTY SEVEN HARDPOINTS (!!!)! I can decrease the price, if you want!

You can haggle them! Just like what Loinstar said!

And, really - they're equivalent to Eurofighters and are twenty million dollars cheaper!

And they get less expensive if you buy MORE of them!

Come on!!!


*whines*

EDIT:

And the F-15s are just as effective as Mig-31s. They might not be super-specialized as interceptors, but they can do MORE things! The F-15 ACTIVE can do all those, PLUS the supermaneuverability of any Sukhoi or Mig!

Shroom Man 777 wrote: EDIT:

And the F-15s are just as effective as Mig-31s. They might not be super-specialized as interceptors, but they can do MORE things! The F-15 ACTIVE can do all those, PLUS the supermaneuverability of any Sukhoi or Mig!

Hmmm...27 hardpoints for that ridiculous F-16 does look promising.

What's the operational ceiling?

EDIT: Also, remember the SSK upgrade? I want to do four boats. How much?

NATO ordnance you say?

Well, that's bad. The MiGs, even export configurations, can carry WARPAC ordnance. Integration is possible, but the machine will be golden.

I think Shroom's offer is better overall than mine.

Stas Bush wrote:NATO ordnance you say?

Well, that's bad. The MiGs, even export configurations, can carry WARPAC ordnance. Integration is possible, but the machine will be golden.

Yeah, just as I thought

In this case I think I'll be paying Shroom or somebody else for the fighters I need. Sorry.

Of course, missiles are still open. I think I'll need to procure something like 2500 FUN "Buzzkills" based on the P-800 design. How about we spread the workload around?

PeZook wrote:Hmmm...27 hardpoints for that ridiculous F-16 does look promising.

What's the operational ceiling?

* Maximum speed: Mach 2.0 (1,300 nm or 1,500 mph)
* Cruise speed: 600 mph
* Range: 2,480 nm (2,850 mi, 4,590 km)
* Service ceiling 50,000 ft (15,000 m)
* Rate of climb: 60,000 ft/min (315 m/s)

From wiki.

That's for the baseline plane that was built, like, in the 1980s - WITHOUT the Shroomanian supercruise engines!

EDIT: Also, remember the SSK upgrade? I want to do four boats. How much?

Hrm... uhh. I am TOTALLY clueless as to how much fitting electric-powered unterboots with nuclear batteries cost.

Let us just say it will happen, and cover up the costs or something. Keep it a "shady" deal.

I mean, not specifying the cost is nowhere near as outrageous as any shit Shep's gonna pull.

If I were you PeZook, I'd just go with F-22s. I'll be buying them in bulk to complement my existing fleet of F-15Es, and at most upgrading them.

Stas, I might consider buying dedicated interceptor squadrons of MIG-31s, though I might do a fair bit of jury rigging on my side to get them to work with my equipment which is fairly Western.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:If I were you PeZook, I'd just go with F-22s. I'll be buying them in bulk to complement my existing fleet of F-15Es, and at most upgrading them.

If Shroom gives me a discount on his F-15s, I'll buy them to serve as interceptors (I'll be able to deploy 50% more this way), and then gradually deploy F-22s as air superiority fighters.

I think this is a good idea, at least