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I can see arguements both ways for removing the dividend tax. I just hate it being presented as a good thing for the "average" american to help them in hard times.

Avarage American as being 50.01% or greater right? 57% of Americans own stock which can be taxed for Dividends, You are taxed every single time your sell your stock which means it affects "the avarage american" sooner or later

Mr Bean - not enough time to nitpick right now, but since when is sending troops of to war, where people DIE, for the WELL being of the nation???

To prevent Millions of Citizins dieing at home

Its a Trade off Verilon

Hell Hitler might never have come after America so why bother send troops to die to liberate a foriegn nation?

Mr Bean wrote:

Mr Bean - not enough time to nitpick right now, but since when is sending troops of to war, where people DIE, for the WELL being of the nation???

To prevent Millions of Citizins dieing at home

Its a Trade off Verilon

Hell Hitler might never have come after America so why bother send troops to die to liberate a foriegn nation?

[Spock]The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.[/Spock]

[Spock]The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.[/Spock]

[Jim]We'll hang togther or we'll hand seperatly[/Jim](Yep Kirk said it first not Jefferson )

Mr Bean wrote:

I can see arguements both ways for removing the dividend tax. I just hate it being presented as a good thing for the "average" american to help them in hard times.

Avarage American as being 50.01% or greater right? 57% of Americans own stock which can be taxed for Dividends, You are taxed every single time your sell your stock which means it affects "the avarage american" sooner or later

And how many of those dividend stocks are inside of retirement accounts. I would guess a majority of them. So it is irrelevant as a stimulus package which it is being presented as.

Selling your stocks is a capital gain issue and not related to dividends. Sell after a year ( 20%) , sell less than a year it is normal income. Again unless it is sheltered in a retirement account.

The main question in my opinion is what can the govt do to help Americans that need tax relief now. Removing the tax from dividends is not the way. Raising the personal expemption or cutting payroll taxes is. Why? Because that puts money in everybodys pockets. Dividends tax relief does not.

verilon wrote:As far as the tax relief, I believe that he is indeed only concerned in lowering the rich's taxes (somewhat a Republican approach to tax cuts).

This pisses me off. Not only is the concept of a graduating income tax already annoyingly presumptious in the idea that wealthier, more successful people deserve to lose a greater percentage of their money, but the idea that cuts to graduated income taxes should be anything OTHER than flat-rate is more-or-less socialist. It is literally a redistrubution of wealth; the reason the wealthier tax payers get a lot of money back is because they pay the significant majoirity of the income taxes as it is. The classes most of the Democrats are crooning about now no longer pay income taxes at all or pay very, very little.

The only adjustment that should've been done to make Bush's tax plan more fair (without considering whether the tax/economic plan is the right one at all) would be to abolish the Payroll Tax, IMHO, which low-income and working people pay anyway despite income tax cuts.

Hmm...maybe he should have cut paycheck taxes...anyone else have anything to add?

Hmm...maybe he should have cut paycheck taxes...anyone else have anything to add?

As they say, 5000 things at a time, NOT 5,001 things!

Umm...that's not very convincing...

Just an FYI. I looked it up, half of all dividends go to retirement accounts.

verilon wrote:Yet we can't be bothered with ending fanatical Christianity at home, dealing with the anti-gay/black/female/etc issues? We can't be bothered with trying to put an end to the fanatics at home that prove to be as much terrorists as those out in the rest of the world, even if of a different sort?.

What the hell do you expect them to do beyond hate crime legislation?

We can't say it is illegal to have a certain of beliefs; we're not in the business of censorship.

Likewise, here at SD.net, we debate with fundie forums for enlightment and hopefully debunking a bunch of bullshit.

We do not hack their sites and shut them down because we find their beliefs harmful.

A load of bullshit, Verilon.

verilon wrote:Mr Bean - not enough time to nitpick right now, but since when is sending troops of to war, where people DIE, for the WELL being of the nation???

You're one of those pacifists who believe "as long as our country isn't perfect inside we shouldn't send troops or bother with a military."

Authority and order still flows from military might in most of the world's situations.

Security and making sure you do not have the Pandora's Box of political shit and WMD floating about that Iraq and North Korea represent is not a happy proposition. I do not neccessarily support Bush's particular war, but to generally dismiss it as you appear to be doing in my opinion, verilon, is niave and patently ignorant of human nature and how security and stability (at least "stability" benefiting one's particular nation) is purchased.

With blood and iron.

Umm...that's not very convincing...

How about it was orgional on there before being sent to Democrate controled Communties and got removed after the fact?(Mostly so they had somthing to say OH YEAH with)

I will not deny my pacifism..

I will not deny my pacifism..

Excellent, Now then will you admit that Pacifisim simply won't work in many cases?

Durandal wrote:If you want to talk about illegal taxation, look no further than income tax.

Amendment XVI?