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what bugs me with the Wrathgate chain is Spoiler

Lord Revan wrote:what bugs me with the Wrathgate chain is Spoiler

how King Varian Wrynn, calls Lordaeron (city not kingdom) "our city", dispite the fact it never was that as of the current faction leaders, only Arthas (aka the Lich King) in addition to Sylvanas has any justification to call Lordaeron his/their city (due to being Crown prince of Lordaeron before corruption), the Kingdom of Lordaeron (only tie that city had to the Alliance) is destroyed and most of it's people are now members of the Forsaken (with handfull if any refugees in alliance lands), Varian Wrynn was born in Stormwind and to my knowlage closest tie he ever had to Lordaeron was being friends with Arthas as a child

Lore nerding alert! Spoiler

Civil War Man wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:what bugs me with the Wrathgate chain is Spoiler

how King Varian Wrynn, calls Lordaeron (city not kingdom) "our city", dispite the fact it never was that as of the current faction leaders, only Arthas (aka the Lich King) in addition to Sylvanas has any justification to call Lordaeron his/their city (due to being Crown prince of Lordaeron before corruption), the Kingdom of Lordaeron (only tie that city had to the Alliance) is destroyed and most of it's people are now members of the Forsaken (with handfull if any refugees in alliance lands), Varian Wrynn was born in Stormwind and to my knowlage closest tie he ever had to Lordaeron was being friends with Arthas as a child

Lore nerding alert! Spoiler

Lordaeron and Stormwind are the two main kingdoms that survived the collapse of the League of Arathor prior to the First War, so he could have been thinking in those terms when he referred to Lordaeron as "our city"

Or, looking at it a different way, Varian escaped the destruction of Stormwind during the first war, and travelled with Anduin Lothar to Lordaeron to warn them of the orc invasion. Varian lived in Lordaeron for the entirety of the Second War, hence his friendship with Arthas. So he more likely views Lordaeron as a second home, since it was his refuge when the Horde controlled his homeland.

Spoiler

Ayrix wrote:Spoiler

I simply took it as him referring to it as the Alliance's city. Lordaeron was, after all, a big part of the Alliance and Stormwind was nothing but friendly to them. In fact, the two populations have diffused from one kingdom to the other (stormwind --> Lordaeron during the second war, Lordaeron ----> stormwind during the third war, or atleast some managed to) enough that their cultures seem to be identical. So it would make sense that somewhere in Stormwinds population there's enough exiled Lordaeron citizens or descendants to warrant thinking its still theirs.

That or its just lazy writing.

Spoiler

Koolaidkirby wrote:

Ayrix wrote:Spoiler

I simply took it as him referring to it as the Alliance's city. Lordaeron was, after all, a big part of the Alliance and Stormwind was nothing but friendly to them. In fact, the two populations have diffused from one kingdom to the other (stormwind --> Lordaeron during the second war, Lordaeron ----> stormwind during the third war, or atleast some managed to) enough that their cultures seem to be identical. So it would make sense that somewhere in Stormwinds population there's enough exiled Lordaeron citizens or descendants to warrant thinking its still theirs.

That or its just lazy writing.

Spoiler

Or it could simply just be him referring to "our city" as either "humanity's city", since, Lordaeron was the largest human city in the warcraft world, and the capital city of the alliance before it fell.

Yeah pretty much. Though I wonder how much influence Stormwind had during the third war when Lordaeron was still around, as theres no way it could have just popped back up 4 years after the third war in pristine condition after 20 years of ruin. Seeing how it's the biggest port city outside of Menethil Harbor (probably bigger) you'd think it would have played a part in WC3, but I guess not.

Ayrix wrote:
Yeah pretty much. Though I wonder how much influence Stormwind had during the third war when Lordaeron was still around, as theres no way it could have just popped back up 4 years after the third war in pristine condition after 20 years of ruin. Seeing how it's the biggest port city outside of Menethil Harbor (probably bigger) you'd think it would have played a part in WC3, but I guess not.

well WC3 alliance action involved only: Lordaeron(the kingdom where most of it took place, as it was by far the largest alliance nation), Dalaran (who helped but got curb stomped), Quel'thalas (who also got curb stomped), and Ironforge (who were helping as well), the other alliance city states were all otherwise occupied I'd imagine. Stormwind was rebuilding, the kingdom in the Alteric mountains and Stormgarde were both busy fighting ogre's/trolls/escaping orcs and Gilneas was hiding behind their wall(still are... bastards).

Civil War Man wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:Spoiler

At the end, Varian Wrynn shows up, has the balls to lecture Thrall (of all people) on what its like to be forced into gladiatorial combat

Spoiler

Yep. Because Thrall was himself a slave, that makes him completely immune to criticism about how he looks the other way while the government he now runs practices slavery.

Spoiler

Koolaidkirby wrote:

Ayrix wrote:
Yeah pretty much. Though I wonder how much influence Stormwind had during the third war when Lordaeron was still around, as theres no way it could have just popped back up 4 years after the third war in pristine condition after 20 years of ruin. Seeing how it's the biggest port city outside of Menethil Harbor (probably bigger) you'd think it would have played a part in WC3, but I guess not.

well WC3 alliance action involved only: Lordaeron(the kingdom where most of it took place, as it was by far the largest alliance nation), Dalaran (who helped but got curb stomped), Quel'thalas (who also got curb stomped), and Ironforge (who were helping as well), the other alliance city states were all otherwise occupied I'd imagine. Stormwind was rebuilding, the kingdom in the Alteric mountains and Stormgarde were both busy fighting ogre's/trolls/escaping orcs and Gilneas was hiding behind their wall(still are... bastards).

actually while not directly involved in fighting Stormgarde, Stormwind(aka Azeroth) and Gilneas did provide troops for the Alliance during the third war (aka WC3)

Koolaidkirby wrote:Gilneas was hiding behind their wall(still are... bastards).

Assuming they're still alive behind there....... (!)

Sharp-kun wrote:

Koolaidkirby wrote:Gilneas was hiding behind their wall(still are... bastards).

Assuming they're still alive behind there....... (!)

Well they "sent" troops to Jaina's forces in WC3 (there's a faction called Gilneas brigade (IIRC) in her forces) so at least some were alive back then (that was early third war though so knows what's happend since), but considering there's rather large number of survivors from Lordaeron (most of Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught and a large part (if not most) of Argent Dawn/Crusade), it's not impossible there's at least some people still alive there.

In other news finally got Swift Flight Form on my main (previously when I had the money for epic flying i gave it to my mage who was my farming character at the time with mining and skinning, so it was more worth giving it to him when my main was sitting on enchanting and leatherworking for all that min/maxing fun) has really speeded up leveling, hit 78 and i'm in Icecrown and i can't imagine flying around that place without epic flying, its just huge and basically everywhere is only reachable by flight form.

Minischoles wrote:In other news finally got Swift Flight Form on my main (previously when I had the money for epic flying i gave it to my mage who was my farming character at the time with mining and skinning, so it was more worth giving it to him when my main was sitting on enchanting and leatherworking for all that min/maxing fun) has really speeded up leveling, hit 78 and i'm in Icecrown and i can't imagine flying around that place without epic flying, its just huge and basically everywhere is only reachable by flight form.

it's possible, though rather slow, I got my DK with normal flying and the Ebon Blade mount (and oh she's lvl 80 already).

Okay, a question for everyone out there:

I'm an alchemist, and someone in my guild is trying to convince me you can't discover 'Transmute: Eternal Might' unless you're a transmute spec. Any truth to this?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Okay, a question for everyone out there:

I'm an alchemist, and someone in my guild is trying to convince me you can't discover 'Transmute: Eternal Might' unless you're a transmute spec. Any truth to this?

I'm 90% sure Eternal Might is Not Yet Implemented, especially considering no recipe in-game requires it.

who knows but IIRC there's a trend to make stuff useble for a broader range of people and not forcing people down a certain path (with trade skills) to get certain items, I could be ofc mistaken here, but IIRC most blacksmithing items are now bind on equip and don't need profession specialation to be used (to make I dunno (yet)).

and for that Lore discussion, Wouldn't Kul Tiras be the largest alliance harbor seeing that it's an island nation?

If the RPG books are anything to go by, Kul Tiras is still a thriving, if diminished member of the Alliance. The capitol of Kul Tiras (Boralus) may very well have a larger harbor than both Stormwind and Menethil Harbor, but with no real evidence to suggest such, it's pretty much idle speculation at this point.

On another note, I'm a Conqueror of Naxxramas, and this title is awesome.

Sharp-kun wrote:

Koolaidkirby wrote:Gilneas was hiding behind their wall(still are... bastards).

Assuming they're still alive behind there....... (!)

Ever try reaching Gilneas swimming?


Aparently, Blizzard actually forgot about them, so you have a big lot of nothing where the map says they should be (the little peninsula south of silverpine, if you swim to it, there's no terrain).

I really wish Blizzard would revisit Azeroth and add stuff such as Gilneas, Kul'Tiras or Undermine, but as it has been stated regarding making Azeroth flight-compatible, they prefer to focus their resources in making new content. Understandable, but a bit sad from a lore perspective.

I know it still early days but what would people want for the third expansion?

Id go for the geat Ocean, have most of the map underwater and allowing three dimensional movement and swimming mounts. You could have undermine as a new city and the final section as the Naga city with Azshara (sp) as a dungeon boss.

Any other suggestions?

Where do the goblins come from? Aren't they supposed to be in the Great Ocean as well, somewhere? You could combine that with the above.

For other suggestions - obviously there are other planets out there, maybe there's some lost group of Dranei, or someone contacts Azeroth for assistance against the demon legions, leading to a whole new world.

Azeroth has a moon - we see it at night, right?

Maybe Gilneas transported itself somewhere like Dalaran did, or was stolen, and they need rescue or help or something.

Isn't the Emerald Dream supposed to be on another plane?

How about the titans calling on the help of the god-like level 90 or 100 players we eventually have to battle the eredar or whatever?

The Twisting Nether. You still need to deal with the threat posed by the Burning Legion, as the Battle for the Undercity has so demonstrated. Outland, Kael'thas, and the Sunwell were only setbacks; Kil'jaden remains alive and will seek another way to invade Azeroth.

Broomstick wrote:Where do the goblins come from? Aren't they supposed to be in the Great Ocean as well, somewhere? You could combine that with the above.

That's Undermine.

The expansion I've heard most called for online is Emerald Dream, followed by Maelstrom. The hero classes I've heard most called for are Archdruid and Demon Hunter. The playable race I've heard most called for, by a wide margin, is furbolg.

If these come to pass, I look forward to the inevitable Goblin City somehow set up in the Emerald Dream. And if furbolg is a playable race, I also call on murlocs to step up for the lulz. One of their racial abilities could be a bonus to fishing or something. Maybe give all murloc players a stackable buff for every other murloc player within 45 yards.

I would like to see an 'Azeroth Revisted' expansion pack, wherein they pretty much just go back and add in all the stuff that they forgot to do the first time; e.g. Gilneas, put in Kul Tiras, open up Grim Batol, put stuff in the empty zones, that sort of thing.

The problem, in my opinion at least, is that WoW's expansion packs are generally driven by villains. Illidan for BC, and now Arthas for WotLK. All well and good, but they're going to have a hard time topping Arthas. There are other villains out there to be sure, but the thing is that Arthas is pretty inarguably the big bad of the WarCraft universe at the moment; he's the most iconic enemy, the one we've had the most attachment too, all that stuff. So they need to find a villain with the same impact as the Lich King and the Betrayer. In my opinion, Azshara (who'd most likely be the final boss of a Maelstrom expansion) doesn't really cut it.

That said, I do want a Maelstrom expansion, and I think it's possible to shape Azshara into a good adversary. Just have the ultimate reveal be that Sargeras has possessed her, Medivh-style.

Quick edit: There's also Deathwing, but I think he would be better served as the Emerald Nightmare.

Okay, so it's been a loooong while since I PvE'd, so to do be fair, maybe I lost the 'touch', but I'm not sure what you're all talking about end game being nerf'd. This is my guy (he has 1.3k spell power, for some reason Armory didn't capture Fel Armour up), and this is him in his 'PvE' set sort of speak. Just tried Heroic Nexus and we wiped more than a few times. Although to be fair, I think it was because our healer leveled Feral and had even less blue healing gear than I had blue DPS gear, but yeah, the point is Nexus and Utguard Keep are meant to be 'starting Heroics' and to be honest, we wiped a lot in Nexus, so for me end game is just about fine.

Having said that, the Ally guild cleared Naxx 25man Heroic on Friday so ....

P.S. Oh, I roll on a PvP server, so no need to point out my spec isn't ideal. It should be fine for Heroics, and there's no way in hell I'm stepping out of a safe haven without at least 11 points in Demo (need 17 to survive a Rogue).

Poor Baron Rivendare... Killed by a Warrior and a Priest. Ok, so we're 68 and 71, and the priest is wearing the undead cleansing set from the invasion, but well.

Almost soled Dire Maul, soloed LBRS...

Classic Dungeoneering achievement done, and Onyxia is down (and I have my very own Quel'Serrar). It's nice to finally be able to do all that stuff, I was beginning to think I'd never see it. Now on to organice some MC, and hopefully BWL, ZG and AQ. It's nice to be in an RP guild that wants to see all the content. I'm a happy cow. With plate armor.

Civil War Man wrote:

Broomstick wrote:Where do the goblins come from? Aren't they supposed to be in the Great Ocean as well, somewhere? You could combine that with the above.

That's Undermine.

The expansion I've heard most called for online is Emerald Dream, followed by Maelstrom. The hero classes I've heard most called for are Archdruid and Demon Hunter. The playable race I've heard most called for, by a wide margin, is furbolg.

If these come to pass, I look forward to the inevitable Goblin City somehow set up in the Emerald Dream. And if furbolg is a playable race, I also call on murlocs to step up for the lulz. One of their racial abilities could be a bonus to fishing or something. Maybe give all murloc players a stackable buff for every other murloc player within 45 yards.

A lot of people call for the Emerald Dream, but as a druid lore-wise i'm really against people being able to enter the Emerald Dream if they're not druids, since it is supposed to be just for the druids.
But that said it does have the potential to be a good expansion, maybe tie in having to rescue Malfurion or help him and Cenarius out against the Nightmare, which could be really fun.
And Archdruid would really appeal to me lore-wise as wanting to be one, but again there would be that niggling feeling in the back of my head thats the lore part of me dying as I see some 12 year old who named his DK 'xxxx-arthas' name his Archdruid something similar then run about generally acting quite stupid.