Prototype and Saints Row

[Lord Revan]

That's because its your job to prove him wrong. HE SAID SO!

SAY WHAT?! Did he honestly say that?!

[Xess]

SAY WHAT?! Did he honestly say that?!

Yep.

Prove what I said is wrong. We got gameplay and cutscenes both match so I don't see what the problem is, you say its all BS okay why, what bits am I ignoring?

[Aaron MkII]

Can he still absorb guys, like in 1?

[gamer]

Sorry dude as I've said a few times, I haven't seen any silly saints stuff that needs dismissing in order for mercer to trivially defeat them. What your bleating overlooks is that in prototype all enemies are superhuman (literally) and thus the saints being fast or having regenerating health just doesn't matter.

Basically Mercer fights people like the saints all day.

The saints have no experience and arguably no chance against guys like Mercer.

Again like I said they don't have to fight Mercer let Heller go to the Red Zone and deal with him, going up against Mercer is probably suicidal.

[gamer]

SAY WHAT?! Did he honestly say that?!

Yep.

Prove what I said is wrong. We got gameplay and cutscenes both match so I don't see what the problem is, you say its all BS okay why, what bits am I ignoring?

I showed proof, the only thing people keep saying is that its unrealistic, who cares if the Saints are unrealistic, if you have something contradicting what I have go on and show it just stop the silly its unrealistic argument.

[Stark]

So did you seriously make a thread so some guys could hide until plot saves the day? Fucking thrilling stuff there.

Much of the saints backup will be unavailable (it's spotty in a city they totally control, let alone one where hey have no friends and is under martial law and under attack by the hulk) and guys in prototype laugh at rifles and rockets (and tanks and even nukes).

I mean it is pretty funny that saints guys would just get whipfisted and then torn in half, bu it's more likely while 'hiding' they'd be exposed and turned into zombies.

PS everytime you claim everyone is saying nothing but 'unrealistic' you look like a bigger and bigger idiot.

[Lord Revan]

Can he still absorb guys, like in 1?

Mercer? yeah he even gives that ability to Heller or what's his name was (and it was during a cutscene and a major plotpoint).

[gamer]

So did you seriously make a thread so some guys could hide until plot saves the day? Fucking thrilling stuff there.

Much of the saints backup will be unavailable (it's spotty in a city they totally control, let alone one where hey have no friends and is under martial law and under attack by the hulk) and guys in prototype laugh at rifles and rockets (and tanks and even nukes).

I mean it is pretty funny that saints guys would just get whipfisted and then torn in half, bu it's more likely while 'hiding' they'd be exposed and turned into zombies.

PS everytime you claim everyone is saying nothing but 'unrealistic' you look like a bigger and bigger idiot.

They don't have to hide (they aren't the hiding type anyway) just not travel to the Red Zone and try to find Mercer that would be retarded, though the Boss's skill + VTOL might stop Mercer. Besides if Mercer starts actively seeking out the Saints (why would he do this?) he will likely reveal himself to Heller who's sole goal is to kill him.

They mainly have to fight off infected and possibly Blackwatch, as for not having friends in the OP they have all the resources they have in Saints Row the third to back them up, and when it comes to a fight I'm pretty sure they could recruit more civs as well.

[Aaron MkII]

So he could literally be anyone. Thats a pretty big nail in the Saints coffin, if he's even interested in finding them.

All the resources? So they could get in a VTOL shoebox and leave.

[Stark]

Holy shit you seriously made a vs where your preferred outcome is 'hide behind plot'. And then you whined about all your wank!

But yeah, Mercer would totally ignore an organisation destroying blackwatch. Honest. Even when Blackwatch is key to his plans. He'd never infiltrate and destroy that organiation.

Aaron there's literally no way the US military would let them just fly away. After a year NYC would be the most surveilled place in the world; even Blackwatch doesn't take subjects out of the city and they're evil govt nazzies.

[Aaron MkII]

That bad huh?

I should rent this.

[gamer]

So he could literally be anyone. Thats a pretty big nail in the Saints coffin, if he's even interested in finding them.

All the resources? So they could get in a VTOL shoebox and leave.

They could possibly leave by VTOL but it seems Blackwatch has the New York Zone on lockdown "no one gets in or off the island" so this may not work for the same reason Mercer or Heller can't just simply fly away to the mainland.

Mercer acts alot less directly in Prototype 2 besides the instance where he infects Heller as he saw how well Heller as a human fought and he tries to get Heller on his side he doesn't take much of a direct interest he acts more like Elizabeth Greene in the first Prototype, the Saints probably aren't at a high priority target its not like they are really a part of his plans unlike Blackwatch and Gentek, the only reason I could see him coming to the Saints is if he wanted to turn the Boss into his Evolved and infect the Saints, probably for the same reason he would have for turning Heller, at which point I agree the Saints won't be able to do much.

[Lord Revan]

unless we're talking about post-infestation Heller (whose motives and goals I'm not sure of), he's a non-factor in the scenario anyway as he's he's unable to harm Mercer when they faced against each other (granted Heller had only his knife but still).

[Stark]

The saints aren't part orbits plan but willbe fighting black watch, the core of his plans. Hmm.

[gamer]

unless we're talking about post-infestation Heller (whose motives and goals I'm not sure of), he's a non-factor in the scenario anyway as he's he's unable to harm Mercer when they faced against each other (granted Heller had only his knife but still).

Post infestation Heller's sole goal became kill Mercer and Spoiler

later he finds out his daughter is still alive so he wants to get her back as well but Mercer has her. Eventually in the end Heller kills and consumes Mercer and wipes out the infection from the entire city via massive highly controlled tentacle rape

[gamer]

The saints aren't part orbits plan but willbe fighting black watch, the core of his plans. Hmm.

Didn't Mercer want to destroy Blackwatch? And use Gentek's research against them to spread the virus globally?

[gamer]

IF Mercer does take an interest in the Saints this will probably end up badly for them. While it MAYBE possible for the Saints or more specifically the Boss to take on Mercer in a direct confrontation (Boss in a VTOL might equal win or Boss with Saints Flow though VTOL is better), Mercer's ability to become anyone will make taking them out trivial. I guess a possible motivation would be to stop them from interferring since they will be the wild card faction and possibly since Mercer seems to have an interest in extraordinary individuals if he sees the Boss in action he probably won't just ignore that talent/potential and the Boss may find him/herself one of Mercer's Evolved and unlike Heller, there isn't any indication that the Boss has super DNA to stop Mercer's control. Mercer could kill and consume Pierce ask the Boss to meet him in a dark alleyway (this is actually normal in Saints Row) and infect him then the Saints will be under Mercer's control as well, unfortunately.

[Metahive]

I Scenario 1: The Saints find themselves in the NYZ a few weeks prior to the 2nd outbreak and right before the outbreak occurs the Boss gets infected with Greene's variant of the virus (Greene in this scenario didn't die completely) taking over the Boss and essentially turning the Boss into Elizabeth Greene except with the Boss' personality and the Boss' abilities added to the virus's abilities (the Boss as a human was quite the superhuman being skilled in all manner of weapons, skilled in driving and piloting nearly any vehicle ranging from tanks to fighter jets, beyond peakhuman athlete and hand to hand fighter, and if fully-upgraded nigh invulnerable). Unfortunately for the Saints the 2nd outbreak happens and they become trapped in the NYZ so they are forced to survive against Blackwatch and Gentek as well as deal with the infected and Mercer and a rogue element is running loose and that would be Heller (perhaps the Boss can persuade Heller to become allies?). The Saints have all of their assets from Saints Row to assist them.

So what happens can the Saints survive?

Boss' personality is overwhelmed by the hive mind and he/she becomes just another runner. He/she is shows to be susceptible to mind-altering substances quite handily after all. Since Mercer isn't there to misdirect Blackwatch, NYZ gets nuked and that's the end of it. As for Boss' invulnerability...he/she can become invincible to explosions unless he/she happens to sit in an exploding car where it is instantly fatal, go figure that out.

Scenario 2:
On a separate but related subject what if instead of having STAG fight the gangs of Steelport, Blackwatch is sent in to contain the issue can they do a better job? Likewise what if instead of Blackwatch fighting the infected in Prototype 2 STAG is sent in instead could they possibly eradicate the virus with their higher lvl tech (instead of assualt rifles all their soldiers are equipped with laser weaponry, they have railgun tanks, and even a flying aircraft carrier) and saner soldiers?

Blackwatch has no interest in a mere upstart street gang, so Steelport gets nuked, especially when the "Steelport secedes from the US" ending has been invoked. STAG loses just as much to Mercer as Blackwatch did, if not harder since they have no viral-detection equipment whatsoever.

[gamer]

Boss' personality is overwhelmed by the hive mind and he/she becomes just another runner. He/she is shows to be susceptible to mind-altering substances quite handily after all. Since Mercer isn't there to misdirect Blackwatch, NYZ gets nuked and that's the end of it.

I will point out that yes, Mercer, Heller, and all other players both major and minor in Prototype 2 are in the scenario, and I really don't think Blackwatch would nuke the NYZ just because the Saints are in town, even with the obvious threat of Blacklight they failed to bring nuclear weapons to the fight so nuking them when the Saints are there wouldn't make sense.

You do make a point if the Boss is infected with Blacklight (either by Mercer taking an interest in the Saints and deciding to make another Evolved lieutenant after seeing the Boss in action or through the original scenario where the Boss gets infected with Greene's blood) there isn't much the Boss can do about it, since it appears Blacklight will consume the Boss's mind making him/her into a monster. The Boss's already psychopathic nature combined with the Boss's already superhuman body and skill would certainly make one monstrous Runner, and with Mercer's control over the infected (the evolved seem alot more autonomous but Mercer does still have a hold on them except Heller) the Boss will find him/herself serving Mercer's goals, and unlike Heller the Boss doesn't seem to have any super-dna to resist it.

I will also have to point out the Boss's vulnerability to drugs and poison doesn't affect the situation, the Blacklight virus is a virus so it works in a totally different manner. But you are right there isn't much indication that the Boss can resist infection.

As an alternate scenario If the Boss remains uninfected and Mercer doesn't decide to attack them can the Saints hold off the infected and military?

As for Boss' invulnerability...he/she can become invincible to explosions unless he/she happens to sit in an exploding car where it is instantly fatal, go figure that out.

I never claimed the Boss was invulnerable just definitely superhuman which can be seen in gameplay, cutscenes, and talked about in dialogue.

Blackwatch has no interest in a mere upstart street gang

The Saints aren't really a gang anymore in Saints Row 3, sure they act like one but they are more a corrupt mega-corporation than anything whose business ranges from making T-shirts to supplying the US military with its weapons and creating advanced technology like toxic gas that can bring the dead to life or supercomputers. So Blackwatch might have some interest.

so Steelport gets nuked, especially when the "Steelport secedes from the US" ending has been invoked. STAG loses just as much to Mercer as Blackwatch did, if not harder since they have no viral-detection equipment whatsoever.

Really Blackwatch is going to have to go nuclear?

[Metahive]

Considering the "superhuman" aspects of the boss are both tied to cash and respect (of all things) we can safely say that those abilities are mere gameplay and can be disregarded. There's no reason to regard the Boss as anything but a normal, if incredibly brutal and sociopathic human.

The only actual acknowledged in-universe superhumans are Oleg Kirrlov and his clones anyway.

As an alternate scenario If the Boss remains uninfected and Mercer doesn't decide to attack them can the Saints hold off the infected and military?

No. If they make too much trouble they just get nuked. Blackwatch is absolutely able and willing to go through with such an act if they were forced to deal with the problem.

The Saints aren't really a gang anymore in Saints Row 3, sure they act like one but they are more a corrupt mega-corporation than anything whose business ranges from making T-shirts to supplying the US military with its weapons and creating advanced technology like toxic gas that can bring the dead to life or supercomputers. So Blackwatch might have some interest.

The Syndicate was able to erase their bank accounts without much trouble, heck, until Kinzie joined them they had no IT specialist among their ranks at all. The mega-corporation aspect of the Saints also doesn't extend any further than "complete corporate sellouts to any PR-nonsense Ulthor comes up with". Also I call BS on supplying the US military with weapons since the Saints still have to buy their weapons in stores, even if they own them.
The toxic, zombiefying gas wasn't made by the Saints or they wouldn't have to choose to keep a sample after the mission Zombie Attack.

Not a challenge for an organisation that has both the military and the government in its pocket like Blackwatch.

[Stark]

The saints create supercomputers?

I guess he means that mission where they are forced to steal one from others becuase they have no source of their own.

[gamer]

Considering the "superhuman" aspects of the boss are both tied to cash and respect (of all things) we can safely say that those abilities are mere gameplay and can be disregarded. There's no reason to regard the Boss as anything but a normal, if incredibly brutal and sociopathic human.

The only actual acknowledged in-universe superhumans are Oleg Kirrlov and his clones anyway.

As an alternate scenario If the Boss remains uninfected and Mercer doesn't decide to attack them can the Saints hold off the infected and military?

No. If they make too much trouble they just get nuked. Blackwatch is absolutely able and willing to go through with such an act if they were forced to deal with the problem.

The Saints aren't really a gang anymore in Saints Row 3, sure they act like one but they are more a corrupt mega-corporation than anything whose business ranges from making T-shirts to supplying the US military with its weapons and creating advanced technology like toxic gas that can bring the dead to life or supercomputers. So Blackwatch might have some interest.

The Syndicate was able to erase their bank accounts without much trouble, heck, until Kinzie joined them they had no IT specialist among their ranks at all. The mega-corporation aspect of the Saints also doesn't extend any further than "complete corporate sellouts to any PR-nonsense Ulthor comes up with". Also I call BS on supplying the US military with weapons since the Saints still have to buy their weapons in stores, even if they own them.
The toxic, zombiefying gas wasn't made by the Saints or they wouldn't have to choose to keep a sample after the mission Zombie Attack.

Not a challenge for an organisation that has both the military and the government in its pocket like Blackwatch.

The Boss is definitely superhuman even without the ingame invulnerability to bullets and such, in dialogue they mention that you are superhuman for example in a Genki Bowl mission you can hear the announcers talking about you one of them says, "you will not believe how many times this former gangster has been shot, stabbed, blown up, ran over, and burned up". Also cutscenes show definite superhuman abilities like sky diving without a parachute to nose dive into an oncoming cargo plane (the Boss tries to slam his/her head through the window but misses and just face plants into the body of the plane a normal man would have simply been splattered the Boss on the other hand isn't even hurt in the slightest), or in that same mission surviving a fall from thousands of feet in the air inside a tank with no parachute, or in that same mission how easy it was for you to steal a tank (the second time you steal a tank while it is freefalling you kill the gunner and with one hand pull up the hatch and hop in. All of this just one mission, even the "normal" stuff you do you are capable of carrying weapons like gatling guns as big as men (the Boss is somehow capable of using a weapon only the Brutes (8 foot tall giants that throw cars) are seen capable of using), and double barrel automatic grenade launchers (only Luchadores steroid boosted specialists are seen carrying this gun) or carjack people by delivering a flying kick to their windows while they are driving towards you and literally kicking them out of their cars and taking over. So the Boss is definitely superhuman.

As for the Saints megacorp status in SR3 the Saints and Ultor merged together becoming the Saints-Ultor Group so technically they are now a mega-corp and yes the Saints-Ultor Media Group also provides weapons and vehicles for the Steelport National Guard, as the Saint of all Saints and the letters "Ult" can be seen printed on their weapons and their vehicles. The zombie gas and supercomputer were also products of Ultor, but it doesn't matter since the boss now has access to both the zombie gas and supercomputer not that this matters in anyway for this vs.debate.

[madd0ct0r]

i'm a little disappointed you see to refer making up vague stuff instead of the actual numbers i gave you last page.

particularly since every time someone points out the saint's will loose you change the rules to give them more of a chance.

[gigabytelord]

As for Warhammer40k
1. Yes, unless magic (magic isn't realistic either) is involved you need to have a helmet on when in space to protect your precious body from the non-existant pressure, radiation, extreme temperatures, and the fact there is no oxygen in space, I should not have to explain why, basic common sense should tell you why.

I'm going to quote something, and maybe I'm wasting my time, and maybe it doesn't really matter, but this is for gamer and the "sci-fi isn't real, and therefore not quantifiable" argument that he keeps using, some one feel free to slap me if I'm being an idiot.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ~ Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - )

I'm a sucker for good quotes.

PS Third ninja edit.

I use to dismiss magic tech as "not quantifiable" as well, but then I discovered that I had an imagination.

[Lord Revan]

Well the thing is that the person gamer uses for the "marines breathe in space" is the Ultramarines Primarch, not only are primarchs even more superhuman then the Space Marines 17 of the 18 known primarchs are/were passive psykers and the one who isn't is Magnus the Red of the Thousand Sons, so in essense they got "magical" boost to their abilities (though warp powers do have limits and thus are quantifiable).

basically it doesn't have to be ultra-realistic to be quantifiable just consistent and relible.