StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Galvatron wrote:

Batman wrote:

APlayerHater wrote:Also, I've seen toys of a black X-wing piloted by Poe. I don't remember Poe ever flying a black X-wing.

ICS (and you're right, he never did). Somebody apparently took his 'Black One' callsign a bit too far.

Um, yes, he did. During both the Battle of Takodana...

Hm. Yeah, looks like the black one with the orange stripe. But I swear it used to be grey with a blue stripe. Maybe I'm thinking of how it looked in the trailer. I'm convinced they changed it at some point in a phantom secret edit so they could make it look more distinctive and make a new toy out of it. I just seem to remember from when I first watched the film that his x-wing didn't stand out particularly.

-I'm probably totally wrong, but who knows.

I think you're remembering the X-wing he had at the start the one blown up by the First Order IIRC that one had blue stripes and lighter hull color.

I've seen the movie three times in the theater and I could have sworn Poe flew a regular X-wing in the first battle and switched to The Special Snowflake paintjob in the Starkiller battle, I was surprised seeing the latter over Maz's castle on blu-ray.

I can think of a lot of decent-ish reasons to have the paint job, so I for one am not criticizing, although it certainly is very toyetic.

Maybe Poe was in special squad before joining the resistance or simple the X-wing he used came from a different military force then the rest as I strongly suspect that all resistance gear is. Either Republic Fleet or local defense force gear that was "missplaced" (read: donated to the resistance) kind of like the Alderaani cruisers the rebels used in the Rebels CGI series.

If not missplaced, then maybe they were sold off. Apparently, the New Republic had already adopted the T-85 X-wing by the time of TFA. The T-70s that the Resistance had were already old by then.

Galvatron wrote:If not missplaced, then maybe they were sold off. Apparently, the New Republic had already adopted the T-85 X-wing by the time of TFA. The T-70s that the Resistance had were already old by then.

Selling them directly would give the impression that Republic approves of the Resistance even if the ships are out-of-date, but if officially the ships were misplaced. The Imperial remnant couldn't use the aquisition of the craft by the resistance against the Republic.

Either way, the Resistance got older ships.

It would have been interesting to see them reduced to using old T-65s instead since it always seemed to me that the rebels used old ships that were hot-rodded to stay competitive against their newer Imperial counterparts. I never liked the EU backstory about Incom making brand new ships for an insurgent force that were superior in every way to state-of-the-art fighters used by the galactic military.

Having the Resistance use obsolete fighters would finally give me that rebellion.

Galvatron wrote:Either way, the Resistance got older ships.

It would have been interesting to see them reduced to using old T-65s instead since it always seemed to me that the rebels used old ships that were hot-rodded to stay competitive against their newer Imperial counterparts. I never liked the EU backstory about Incom making brand new ships for an insurgent force that were superior in every way to state-of-the-art fighters used by the galactic military.

Having the Resistance use obsolete fighters would finally give me that rebellion.

If you want that rebellion there are already three movies about it.

I, for one, would be really happy if it the Ressistance got assimilated by Republic military and equipped with state of the art equipment, including T-85s which don't look like just T-70s with different engines and are not the only type of starfighter in use by the New Republic.

eMeM wrote:

Galvatron wrote:Either way, the Resistance got older ships.

It would have been interesting to see them reduced to using old T-65s instead since it always seemed to me that the rebels used old ships that were hot-rodded to stay competitive against their newer Imperial counterparts. I never liked the EU backstory about Incom making brand new ships for an insurgent force that were superior in every way to state-of-the-art fighters used by the galactic military.

Having the Resistance use obsolete fighters would finally give me that rebellion.

If you want that rebellion there are already three movies about it.

If we'd seen any T-65s zooming around during the Clone Wars, I'd agree with you.

eMeM wrote:I've seen the movie three times in the theater and I could have sworn Poe flew a regular X-wing in the first battle and switched to The Special Snowflake paintjob in the Starkiller battle, I was surprised seeing the latter over Maz's castle on blu-ray.

I'd say it's certainly 'possible' for them to have changed it for the Blu Ray. I've already looked at the trailer, where both the outside view and cockpit view make it look like he's flying a grey X-wing with a blue stripe. I know trailers don't use the final version of the special effects, but the way movies are distributed if Disney wanted to pull a GLucas and change something for toy's sake in post, they could certainly have the capability.

I feel like Disney is gaslighting me with this. I was completely surprised by seeing a Poe Dameron black x-wing toy a few months back after seeing the movie because I swear I didn't see him fly a black x-wing in the film. I could be completely wrong, but I'll never be convinced. I'll take this knowledge to my grave, shaking my fist at Disney who think they can trick me with their lies...

The first teaser trailer used footage of three white X-wings, s-foils open, skimming the water in formation (FF to 0:45). This specific version of the scene was not in the movie.

Galvatron wrote:Either way, the Resistance got older ships.

It would have been interesting to see them reduced to using old T-65s instead since it always seemed to me that the rebels used old ships that were hot-rodded to stay competitive against their newer Imperial counterparts. I never liked the EU backstory about Incom making brand new ships for an insurgent force that were superior in every way to state-of-the-art fighters used by the galactic military.

Having the Resistance use obsolete fighters would finally give me that rebellion.

Were X-wings ever actually shown to be superior? Their on screen kill ratio over the Death Star certainly doesn't indicate this. They are superior in the sense that they are longer ranged and possibly have stronger weapon loadouts, but that is about it. That is merely a different design criteria. The Empire relies on their vast fleets of Star Destroyers to carry fighters and have dedicated bombers.

TIE fighters show superior maneuverability and competitive firepower and durability. Despite the shielded TIE myth, they and X-wings die just about as quickly. X-wings can survive glancing hits more effectively, but they both die with comparable frequency in most cases, as the TIEs use speed as armor.

Endor shows Rebel superiority but that was presumably due to pilot skill rather than anything else. It also helped that the Rebel fleet used coordination between fighters and capital ships on both the initial defense as well as the later offense. The Empire did not, wasting their fleet in an effort to make a stronger psychological demonstration for Luke(though that decision was in many ways justified, as Luke was just as much of a threat as the entire rest of the Rebellion).

Adam Reynolds wrote:Were X-wings ever actually shown to be superior?

No, I think it's just that TIEs seemed about as durable as a Star Trek warp core in the movies, especially when chasing the Falcon. The rest was just decades of EU brain buggery.

Galvatron wrote:

Adam Reynolds wrote:Were X-wings ever actually shown to be superior?

No, I think it's just that TIEs seemed about as durable as a Star Trek warp core in the movies, especially when chasing the Falcon. The rest was just decades of EU brain buggery.

A lot also has to do with X-Wings' portrayal in various video games, where they are the "hero craft", and as such, more durable, etc.

In the movies TIEs weren't any more or less durable than X or Y Wings. That's almost completely EU, especially the 'X-Wing'/ 'TIE Fighter' games which had shielded Rebel fighters vs unshielded TIEs.

Batman wrote:In the movies TIEs weren't any more or less durable than X or Y Wings. That's almost completely EU, especially the 'X-Wing'/ 'TIE Fighter' games which had shielded Rebel fighters vs unshielded TIEs.

Well, we saw some X-Wings get shot and stay intact, but all hits on TIEs, (with the notable exception of Vader's), were fatal...

It did strike me as kind of odd that storm troopers were easily able to destroy Poe's ship while it was parked on the ground by firing at it with their weapons, and yet when he steals a TIE fighter they get shot by storm troopers and take no damage. So maybe the TIEs have at least some kind of shield?

biostem wrote:

Batman wrote:In the movies TIEs weren't any more or less durable than X or Y Wings. That's almost completely EU, especially the 'X-Wing'/ 'TIE Fighter' games which had shielded Rebel fighters vs unshielded TIEs.

Well, we saw some X-Wings get shot and stay intact, but all hits on TIEs, (with the notable exception of Vader's), were fatal...

Even when hit, X-Wings and Y-Wing turn into flaming wrecks. TIEs just exploded into nothingness.

APlayerHater wrote:It did strike me as kind of odd that storm troopers were easily able to destroy Poe's ship while it was parked on the ground by firing at it with their weapons, and yet when he steals a TIE fighter they get shot by storm troopers and take no damage. So maybe the TIEs have at least some kind of shield?

well any ship flying at high STL speeds would need something akin to a navigational deflector to avoid damage from space dust and atmosphere interactions so it's possible that Poe hadn't been able to activate that system, also the X-wing was stationary allowing the Stormtroopers to better focus on the weak spots, while the TIE was constantly moving (the ship is big but it does mean that the spots you need hit to take it out with small arms are that big)

Crazedwraith wrote:Even when hit, X-Wings and Y-Wing turn into flaming wrecks. TIEs just exploded into nothingness.

actually we have times when TIE turn into wrecks (in TESB and ROTJ) however we got cases where a X-wing or a Y-wing is hit with a glancing glow and still keeps going while even a glancing blow takes out a TIE.

So TIE being weaker then X-Wings isn't pure EU, however the extent of it is, in the movies it's more the difference between german and american fighters in WW2 where the american designs could take more punishment but a solid hit would still bring them down easily, it's only in the EU where X-Wings could tank a direct hit from ISD main gun while TIE would blow up if you looked at their general direction meanly

APlayerHater wrote:It did strike me as kind of odd that storm troopers were easily able to destroy Poe's ship while it was parked on the ground by firing at it with their weapons, and yet when he steals a TIE fighter they get shot by storm troopers and take no damage. So maybe the TIEs have at least some kind of shield?

Those two scenes would suggest the opposite. That TIEs have armor while X-wings are shielded. Sitting on the ground, Poe's X-wing is helpless, but in space it would be more effective than a TIE fighter.

APlayerHater wrote:It did strike me as kind of odd that storm troopers were easily able to destroy Poe's ship while it was parked on the ground by firing at it with their weapons, and yet when he steals a TIE fighter they get shot by storm troopers and take no damage. So maybe the TIEs have at least some kind of shield?

Both TIE/sf (the fighter they stole) and the TIE/fo fighters have shields - the former stronger than the latter. The old 'no shields' canard of the EU doesn't apply to First Order fighters.

Adam Reynolds wrote:

APlayerHater wrote:It did strike me as kind of odd that storm troopers were easily able to destroy Poe's ship while it was parked on the ground by firing at it with their weapons, and yet when he steals a TIE fighter they get shot by storm troopers and take no damage. So maybe the TIEs have at least some kind of shield?

Those two scenes would suggest the opposite. That TIEs have armor while X-wings are shielded. Sitting on the ground, Poe's X-wing is helpless, but in space it would be more effective than a TIE fighter.

I wonder how well any modern jet fighter would stand up to several direct hits to its engines from a couple of AK-47s. That's the closest real-world analog I can think of as to what happened to Poe's X-wing.

I think its fairly simple. Poe's stolen TIE/sf managed to took off, and accordingly was fully operational and had its shields raised. Poe's X-Wing didn't manage to take off - he hadn't even completed engine start-up and who knows what other pre-flight checks. Accordingly, the X-Wing got tagged in a sensitive spot, unshielded, and was grounded.

Its not like the place he examined when he ran out to check was even armored. Heck, its something of a design flaw when you think about it - all that exposed inner working right smack dab at the back, exposed in the place that its most dangerous for an enemy fighter fire.

I don't know if its actually a design flaw or part of the stripped down approach to maintenance that the Rebels/Resistance have. Take for instance the Y-Wing, alot of its inner workings are exposed. But its not designed that way. They actually show in The Clone Wars series proper Y-Wings that still have the proper coverings. The Rebel Y-Wings look as they do because the engineers removed the panels covering the guts for easier access, trading some armor for faster repair time to get damaged birds off the ground faster. Because the fighters were shielded anyway armor plating is less important. And were supposed to have some other added benefits like lightening the craft and helping keep components cooler pretty much like removing the side panel on a PC.

It wouldn't be a stretch to think they did the same thing to the X-Wings, removed hull plating for ease of maintenance. But like the removal of the side panel on a computer while there are some advantages there are some disadvantages. For the X-Wing the disadvantage is its extremely vulnerable to even small arms fire while unshielded. And probably gets dust stuck in there really fucking bad.

Presumably Poe and Finn's stolen TIE might have survived better even if the shield weren't up just for having all its hull plating.