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Kuja wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:You mean cold blooded murder? I'll pass, thanks.

I won't happen if you don't oppose the Emperor and do your job efficiently.

It also won't happen if the Emperor is successfully opposed.

Rogue 9 wrote:It also won't happen if the Emperor is successfully opposed.

And then you get anarchy followed by hot-blooded murder courtesy of the Yuuzahn Vong.

I'll take cold-blooded murder, thanks.

Stofsk wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The Empire was designed to self-destruct in Palpatine's absence, so the Imperial Civil War doesn't count.

That doesn't make any sense. If the empire was designed to fall in Palpy's absence then how can it be considered a stable government? It doesn't sound terribly balanced to me.

No, you are right, aside from people going "Palp's paln was always to come back!", it's not balanced mostly because he created a system that required him. Literally if he removed himself in any fashion or form, the system collasped like a house of cards. But compared to the sheer bickering and nonsense that preceeded it? It honestly and sadly was a helluva lot better.

Though really it wasn't the rebellion that gave him a headache, it honestly was Luke. The Imperial Civil war appears more and more something he kept alive for the same reason he used the Clone Wars, to allow huge military build up. Take the ICW this way...literally if Luke had never be, the DS would've ben in place, Tarkin's Doctrine would more then likely have come to pass of the truth of the matter, and Momtha's Alliance would've been a footnote in Galactic history.

All in all aside from the highest part of the Galactic government, the New Order actually brought about more stability then the waning days of the OR.

You assume that the Rebellion knew about the Yuuzhan Vong in advance. They didn't; the Vong had no influence on their actions. Besides, I don't know if the Empire could have beaten back the Vong or not. I mean, surely the Republic's fleets did something. A whole numbered fleet is kept at Coruscant, for crying out loud! Besides, we're talking about the Rebellion, not the New Republic.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Laws ensure your freedom, child...

There were no absolute laws in the Galactic Empire. It is a despotate; none of her laws and constitutions in anyway limit the power of the Galactic Emperor.

The Galactic Emperor was a Sith Lord, and fully intended to reduce the general citizenry to a cross between feudal serfs and Orwellian proles subservient to an overclass of Dark Side Adepts answering to the Galactic Emperor and his Sith Apprentice.

The Yuuzhan Vong were oppurtunists; at no other point in Galactic history was the galaxy probably easily assailable. Even the Old Republic probably could've thwarted the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.

As it happens, the New Republic was in a state of flux from being run by a band of empowered guerillas to oppurtunistic politicans, before the formation of a stable power structure. Her fleet was also in the progress of being normalized: it was being filled-in from above as seen with the refit Guardian, the Strident and Viscount Star Defenders, and the Mediator battlecruiser.

The Yuuzhan Vong invasion killed perhaps a quantity only equal to the population of Coruscant. The invasion track covered perhaps a third of the galaxy, and little of that was direct occupation due to Yuuzhan Vong manpower problems.

I take the trial-by-fire which probably will harden the galactic civilization over perpetual subjugation before an overlordship of sadistic Sith who quite literally suck the life force from the population.

Rogue 9 wrote: Besides, I don't know if the Empire could have beaten back the Vong or not.

Given that it would be reliant on one man deciding vermin shouldn't be challenging him vs a group of mealy mouthed pussies wondering what should they do?

I'd say the YV become a footnote in Galactic history, given if the Empire was in charge.

Yes, but the problem is he decides that and then his Star Destroyers are carved up just as easily as the Republic's were.

I'm fucking tired of hearing about the Vong...

Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, but the problem is he decides that and then his Star Destroyers are carved up just as easily as the Republic's were.

Are you kidding me?

Given the sheer numbers he could throw at them as well as the better weaponry he had at his disposal.

This combined with Nom Anor's statement that they preferred the NR because they could effectively shut down the military through the polictical nonsense, you're going have to come up with something much better then a flimsy supposition on your part.

The Empire posessed more than 96,000 Star Destroyers within her Sector Groups alone. This discounts the strategic forces including the massive Saxton cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships intermediate between the mile-long standard star destroyer and the mighty command ship Executor.

Unfortunately for the New Republic, it had just barely started to fill-in a larger scale fleet when the Yuuzhan Vong invaded.

The Galactic Empire would've destroyed the Yuuzhan Vong within months.

Ghost Rider wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, but the problem is he decides that and then his Star Destroyers are carved up just as easily as the Republic's were.

Are you kidding me?

Given the sheer numbers he could throw at them as well as the better weaponry he had at his disposal.

This combined with Nom Anor's statement that they preferred the NR because they could effectively shut down the military through the polictical nonsense, you're going have to come up with something much better then a flimsy supposition on your part.

A Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer, no matter which government owns it, and the Vong seem to knock out ISDs fairly easily.

When the Vong took Coruscant, did First Fleet just surrender, or what? I never got that far in the series, but if the Republic's military just folded for no reason I don't think I'm going to bother finishing.

Rogue 9 wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, but the problem is he decides that and then his Star Destroyers are carved up just as easily as the Republic's were.

Are you kidding me?

Given the sheer numbers he could throw at them as well as the better weaponry he had at his disposal.

This combined with Nom Anor's statement that they preferred the NR because they could effectively shut down the military through the polictical nonsense, you're going have to come up with something much better then a flimsy supposition on your part.

A Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer, no matter which government owns it, and the Vong seem to knock out ISDs fairly easily.

Poor assumption, given that the NR had a different ideas and models for the models of Star Destroyer.

But even going by this...the Empire had millions more then the NR. Had an array of weapons that the NR never had access to as well as far larger resources.

When the Vong took Coruscant, did First Fleet just surrender, or what? I never got that far in the series, but if the Republic's military just folded for no reason I don't think I'm going to bother finishing.

I'm not even going there because you're assuming that the NR and New Order had similar scaled fleets.

The New Order's typical destroyer is the ISD.

The New Order's typical cruiser is around the size or mass of the TradeFed battleship; perhaps larger.

Battlecruiser is either Jerec's Vengeance or some of the Marvel ships.

Battleship is Geil's infamous giant wedge-shaped vessel.

The NR maintains cruisers in the MC90 range, although it is filling-in from the bottom, with the combination of refit ISDs, Bothan Assault Cruisers, Republic and Defender destroyers.

Battlecruiser would be the Mediator.

Battleship is the Strident or Viscount.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Empire posessed more than 96,000 Star Destroyers within her Sector Groups alone. This discounts the strategic forces including the massive Saxton cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships intermediate between the mile-long standard star destroyer and the mighty command ship Executor.

Let's not forget the Galaxy Gun, Death Stars, Sun Crusher, Eclipse, World Devestators, etc.

I go by theme music myself. The Empire has the Imperial March. What do the Rebels have? The Yavin throneroom bit? Sure, it's cool, but can't top the March.

But if I could live under any order, I'd say Thrawn's Empire, in an AU where he wins. I think that'd be cool.

Ghost Rider wrote:I'm not even going there because you're assuming that the NR and New Order had similar scaled fleets.

No I'm not, I'm assuming that First Fleet would be on the same scale as Fifth Fleet, and Fifth was a bigass force.

RogueIce wrote:I go by theme music myself. The Empire has the Imperial March. What do the Rebels have?

Luke and Leia.

YT300000 wrote:

RogueIce wrote:I go by theme music myself. The Empire has the Imperial March. What do the Rebels have?

Luke and Leia.

Bah. Sure, it's pretty and all, but it's hardly fit for a military force.

Besides, that doesn't count for the Rebels as a whole. It's just them two, and it's more a Brother/Sister thing.

Does the Rebel Alliance even have real theme music?

RogueIce wrote:Does the Rebel Alliance even have real theme music?

Oh! I know! Into the Trap.

YT300000 wrote:

RogueIce wrote:Does the Rebel Alliance even have real theme music?

Oh! I know! Into the Trap.

Not really. Remember that little bit of the Imperial March thrown in there? Just plain ol' battle music (very nice, though).

So, no RA theme music. So, to me at least, that's something that makes the Empire win, hands down.

RogueIce wrote:...So, no RA theme music. So, to me at least, that's something that makes the Empire win, hands down.

Alliance Assembly? Y'know, when the fleet assembled to attack the DS2?

Either that or the Throneroom. The RA has a theme, it's just not as ominious.

Stofsk wrote:

RogueIce wrote:...So, no RA theme music. So, to me at least, that's something that makes the Empire win, hands down.

Alliance Assembly? Y'know, when the fleet assembled to attack the DS2?

Either that or the Throneroom. The RA has a theme, it's just not as ominious.

Yeah, THroneroom is closest. But the Alliance Assembly..it's so, short.

Anyway, so they do have theme music. It's just not as cool as the Empire's.

Long live His Imperial Majesty!

Empire all the way!!!

Rogue 9 wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:I'm not even going there because you're assuming that the NR and New Order had similar scaled fleets.

No I'm not, I'm assuming that First Fleet would be on the same scale as Fifth Fleet, and Fifth was a bigass force.

Thus you are ASSUMING they had similar scaled fleet, given the sheer differeneces in both military spending and structure.

No, Fifth Fleet was a Republic unit, and First Fleet was a Republic unit. The Imperial fleet sizes never entered into the equation, and in fact the entire Black Fleet Crisis trilogy is littered with very strong indications that the numbered fleets are a standard unit and the Fifth Fleet is fairly well laid out. Also, that series also states that First Fleet is stationed at and guards Coruscant. Therefore, a force the size of the Fifth Fleet that attacked the Yevetha should have been at Coruscant. See what I'm saying now?