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Pick wrote:Protecting the Arcadia seems like a wise plan *sagely nod*. I hear that her incompetant commander has no idea what the fuck she is doing *more sagely nodding.*

My comments were meant in no way to disparage the illustrious Arcadia or her capable commander. More, I was attempting to point out that since she is our most valuable asset, she deserves the most capable defense we can afford her. While her air wing is indeed her first line of defense, she is too valuable to risk with only that one line. Thus, the role of the AEGIS-equipped vessels are to safeguard her should any enemy ordinace manage to get past her fighter screen.

[OOC: plus, you'll need a close-in escort with the ability to engage multiple inbound vampires. CIWS is incapable of differentiating between fast-moving close proximity targets, and unless there has been extensive modification Arcadia lacks any other form of point-defense agaisnt a missile attack.]

Noble Ire wrote: [Don't worry. I'll make sure my men let something get through every once and awhile, just for you. ]

[Pfft, what are the Marines gonna do when the enemy is launching missiles at us? Fire at them with M-16s? Ha! You grunts depend on us Navy boys to keep your asses out of the water. (and yes, this is humor, in case a certain Sergeant Major is in the Marine force)*]

*Cookie for the reference!

Uraniun235 wrote:Would it be at all feasible to make CTF-81 the result of the aftermath of something very much like "Red Storm Rising", in which a slowly disintegrating Soviet Union contributed ships and material (which it could no longer afford to maintain itself) to a UN taskforce which until relatively recently got very little in the way of funding and support?

[It's a lot more feasible than Command & Conquer. Give the order and I'll write up a campaign setting immediately (and then you swabs can get cracking on your characters). Of course, I like this because it makes me and my shady connections with deep pockets all the more instrumental.

CWM: The Adventure doesn't have to be a stolen ship. The USN could have awarded it to you in recognition of your superior captaining skills. It could be the second incarnation of whatever rickety old heap you used to command.]

[I'm liking the "Red Storm Rising" idea a lot because then it gives me a place where the Admiral cut his teeth in battle and showed his mettle, setting him up for command of an extremely powerful, multinational naval force. Let's wait a day, and if there aren't any serious objections to it, go ahead and start in on that premise.

A ship that was outright stolen from the US Navy would probably not fly too well in a UN-mandated military force. On the other hand, a ship "on extended loan" to a force whose commander was willing to... overlook something like the Jolly Roger flying from one of his ships would make a bit more sense.]

Uraniun235 wrote:[I'm liking the "Red Storm Rising" idea a lot because then it gives me a place where the Admiral cut his teeth in battle and showed his mettle, setting him up for command of an extremely powerful, multinational naval force. Let's wait a day, and if there aren't any serious objections to it, go ahead and start in on that premise.

Considering that Red Storm Rising is one of my favorite Clancy books, I'm fully in favor of a post-RSR scenario.

Vicious wrote:[Pfft, what are the Marines gonna do when the enemy is launching missiles at us? Fire at them with M-16s? Ha! You grunts depend on us Navy boys to keep your asses out of the water. ]

[Take a look at the command hierarchy, Navy boy. Anymore lip, and there's no telling if the Harbinger might mistake the Arclight for a pirate cruiser and give her a twenty-one gun salute. ]


[I approve of the proposed setting, although I am unfamiliar with RSR, so it would be appreciated if you background was in-depth as possible, Rear-Admiral Raptor].

Noble Ire wrote:

Vicious wrote:[Pfft, what are the Marines gonna do when the enemy is launching missiles at us? Fire at them with M-16s? Ha! You grunts depend on us Navy boys to keep your asses out of the water. ]

[Take a look at the command hierarchy, Navy boy. Anymore lip, and there's no telling if the Harbinger might mistake the Arclight for a pirate cruiser and give her a twenty-one gun salute. ]

Sir, with all due respect, I would like to point the General to the final sentence of my comment, sir.

(and yes, this is humor, in case a certain Sergeant Major is in the Marine force)

I hope the General can see that my statement was intended purely in jest.

Also, sir, I think you will find that Arclight possesses as much firepower as the mighty Harbinger, and moreover owing to the close proximity of Arclight to Arcadia any shots fired in her direction might potentially inflict unwanted damage upon our glorious flagship. Sir.

OOC:

*Looks around blankly*

I have no clue as to the meaning of anything that was just said, or indeed anything about anything to do with the topic.

*Is so screwed*

Noble Ire wrote:[I approve of the proposed setting, although I am unfamiliar with RSR, so it would be appreciated if you background was in-depth as possible, Rear-Admiral Raptor].

Roger that, Comrade General.

Pcm979 wrote:OOC:

*Looks around blankly*

I have no clue as to the meaning of anything that was just said, or indeed anything about anything to do with the topic.

*Is so screwed*

[How do think I feel? I'm the goddamned SENIOR INTELLIGENCE OFFICER.

Just pretend you know what's going on. Let your underlings worry about superflous things like "facts". ]

Vicious wrote:I hope the General can see that my statement was intended purely in jest.

[I know. However, I couldn't pass up the chance to issue a threat, joking as it may be. Being "in port" for too long makes one itchy for some action. ]

Also, sir, I think you will find that Arclight possesses as much firepower as the mighty Harbinger, and moreover owing to the close proximity of Arclight to Arcadia any shots fired in her direction might potentially inflict unwanted damage upon our glorious flagship. Sir.

[I feel obligated to remind you that I also am in command of a submarine that may or may not possess enough firepower to glass a sizeable Baltic state. Of course, you are completely correct about the Arcadia. Captain. ]

Noble Ire wrote:

Vicious wrote:I hope the General can see that my statement was intended purely in jest.

[I know. However, I couldn't pass up the chance to issue a threat, joking as it may be. Being "in port" for too long makes one itchy for some action. ]

I wholeheartedly agree, General. Port is no place for a soldier, or a sailor, to spend too much time.

Some history for you, General.

Red Storm Rising.

My records will begin with CTF 81's two phase creation and the global geopolitical situation as of 2006.

[Edit:] On second thought, I should include an entry on World War III, since the majority of us served during that conflict in some capacity.

Surlethe wrote:Ah-hah; that makes sense. One of the things I'm considering for the future (and, admittedly, it seems far-fetched) is doing away with most of the ASW equipment (read: helicopters, and associated maintenance equipment and crew) on the Irascible and adding strategic weaponry (as well as extra tactical capability) in its place.

You will pay a hefty penalty if you want strategic weaponry. They are not fun things to carry and I daresay you will lose a lot of tactical flexibility in deleting the helicopters. In fact, Polaris launchers had been considered for USS Long Beach - a true cruiser much larger than your renamed destroyer - and then deleted when it was realized the idea was kind of silly.

Vicious wrote:[OOC: plus, you'll need a close-in escort with the ability to engage multiple inbound vampires. CIWS is incapable of differentiating between fast-moving close proximity targets, and unless there has been extensive modification Arcadia lacks any other form of point-defense agaisnt a missile attack.]

Arcadia will be carrying ESSM and RAM launchers on her - she will be a very well defended ship close-in.

Uraniun235 wrote:

Surlethe wrote:Ah-hah; that makes sense. One of the things I'm considering for the future (and, admittedly, it seems far-fetched) is doing away with most of the ASW equipment (read: helicopters, and associated maintenance equipment and crew) on the Irascible and adding strategic weaponry (as well as extra tactical capability) in its place.

Er, wouldn't that be a pretty blatant display of nuclear weapons any time your ship went into port? CTF-81's official policy is that the presence or absence of nuclear ordnance is a classified matter.

Sir, in any proposed refit, strategic ordnance would certainly not be displayed at all; I respect and fully agree with the condition that nuclear ordnance remain classified at all times, sir. I'd like to also make clear that these ideas I'm floating, sir, are still "on the drawing board", as they say, and are neither intended to be nor are actually practicable at this time. I wish only to spur dialogue regarding the specific role each ship plays in CTF-81, sir.

[Very, very "out of character" (yes I know I've been playing it a bit fast and loose with in and out of character) - Arcadia probably has a few tactical nukes, and Gnisnal probably has a couple of MIRV'ed SLBMs, but honestly that's way more firepower than we'll probably ever need... and if we ever needed more we'd probably carry them aboard the SSBN.]

[Meh. My thought in carrying strategic nukes is that if an enemy wants to cripple UN strategic abilities, he's going to be looking for roaming SSBMs, not in the middle of a tactical strike force.]

phongn wrote:You will pay a hefty penalty if you want strategic weaponry. They are not fun things to carry and I daresay you will lose a lot of tactical flexibility in deleting the helicopters. In fact, Polaris launchers had been considered for USS Long Beach - a true cruiser much larger than your renamed destroyer - and then deleted when it was realized the idea was kind of silly.

I've realized this, which is why I'm not insisting on a refit now, and if I ever do drop into drydock for a few months, any refit will be much more thorough in attempting to preserve tactical integrity than simply converting the hangar, helipad, and space beneath it into Polaris launchers and tacking a few extra missile launchers onto her. The Irascible is sufficiently badass as she stands[, as I've seen researching Ticonderoga cruisers].

Surlethe wrote:[Meh. My thought in carrying strategic nukes is that if an enemy wants to cripple UN strategic abilities, he's going to be looking for roaming SSBMs, not in the middle of a tactical strike force.]

[You are kidding yourself if you think they will overlook them. Intelligence sats will pick them up the second the systems begin to be installed. You don't just "overlook" the construction or modification of naval forces.]

Vicious wrote:Also, sir, I think you will find that Arclight possesses as much firepower as the mighty Harbinger, and moreover owing to the close proximity of Arclight to Arcadia any shots fired in her direction might potentially inflict unwanted damage upon our glorious flagship. Sir.

I do believe that you either underestimate the Kirov class or overestimate the Ticonderoga class. Perhaps both at the same time.

Ar-Adunakhor wrote:

Surlethe wrote:[Meh. My thought in carrying strategic nukes is that if an enemy wants to cripple UN strategic abilities, he's going to be looking for roaming SSBMs, not in the middle of a tactical strike force.]

[You are kidding yourself if you think they will overlook them. Intelligence sats will pick them up the second the systems begin to be installed. You don't just "overlook" the construction or modification of naval forces.]

[Fair enough. I stand corrected; thanks.]

Darth Raptor wrote:CWM: The Adventure doesn't have to be a stolen ship. The USN could have awarded it to you in recognition of your superior captaining skills. It could be the second incarnation of whatever rickety old heap you used to command.]

[My ship is the Vengeance, my good sir. You must have been confused by all the parallel universes popping up.]

Uraniun235 wrote:A ship that was outright stolen from the US Navy would probably not fly too well in a UN-mandated military force. On the other hand, a ship "on extended loan" to a force whose commander was willing to... overlook something like the Jolly Roger flying from one of his ships would make a bit more sense.

[Much better idea. We all know how tricky paperwork can get. I'll just have to give it a new paint job so it's not obvious that I'm running around with what used to be the Dewey]

Civil War Man wrote: [Much better idea. We all know how tricky paperwork can get. I'll just have to give it a new paint job so it's not obvious that I'm running around with what used to be the Dewey]

[Yeah, that's going to hide the fact that she's a Burke real well. ]

The Omaha is nearing the completion of modifications, Captain Nguyen. Are all aircraft deployments satisfactory? There are three squadrons of F-35B's as requested, along with a compliment of CH-53Ks and enough MV-22's to transport a full company plus gear and support.

Batman wrote:[Yeah, that's going to hide the fact that she's a Burke real well. ]

[Don't have to hide the fact that she's a Burke. Just which Burke in particular. ]

I've noticed that the Alamo, the amphibious transport dock, is still lacking a commanding officer. Could I take that position? I am not familiar with naval vessels, so I can't make any recommendations to modify the ship, though I might request more helicopters loaded aboard, and a few less Ospreys. Also, would my ship have a landing force stationed aboard constantly, or would I take them on as needed? If it's the latter, do I have any contingent of marines aboard?

Ar-Adunakhor wrote: I do believe that you either underestimate the Kirov class or overestimate the Ticonderoga class. Perhaps both at the same time.

[While the Kirov-class has a more clearly delinieated weapons loadout, and far more SAM capability, she has a limited cruise missile capability, whereas the Ticonderoga-class has a universal VLS, which, while granting her a more limited maximum weapons loadout is more flexible. Personally, I carry a 20/72/30 (2x61 VSL cells) loadout, 20 Harpoons/Tomahawks, 72 SAMs/ESSMs and 30 ASROC torpedoes. I never argued that a Tico outgunned the Kirov-class, only that they are comparable in effective offensive armament. Now, it's true that a Kirov-class outguns a Tico slightly in terms of deck guns, and I won't claim otherwise. Likewise, I'm comparing a standard Kirov-class with a standard Tico, so if you've made extensive modifications then that would alter the scales.]

Vicious wrote:[While the Kirov-class has a more clearly delinieated weapons loadout, and far more SAM capability, she has a limited cruise missile capability, whereas the Ticonderoga-class has a universal VLS, which, while granting her a more limited maximum weapons loadout is more flexible. Personally, I carry a 20/72/30 (2x61 VSL cells) loadout, 20 Harpoons/Tomahawks, 72 SAMs/ESSMs and 30 ASROC torpedoes. I never argued that a Tico outgunned the Kirov-class, only that they are comparable in effective offensive armament. Now, it's true that a Kirov-class outguns a Tico slightly in terms of deck guns, and I won't claim otherwise. Likewise, I'm comparing a standard Kirov-class with a standard Tico, so if you've made extensive modifications then that would alter the scales.]

[For the record, there is no "standard" Kirov loadout, only a "base" loadout. Every single Kirov was customized, and mine is no exception.]

Ar-Adunakhor wrote:

Vicious wrote:[While the Kirov-class has a more clearly delinieated weapons loadout, and far more SAM capability, she has a limited cruise missile capability, whereas the Ticonderoga-class has a universal VLS, which, while granting her a more limited maximum weapons loadout is more flexible. Personally, I carry a 20/72/30 (2x61 VSL cells) loadout, 20 Harpoons/Tomahawks, 72 SAMs/ESSMs and 30 ASROC torpedoes. I never argued that a Tico outgunned the Kirov-class, only that they are comparable in effective offensive armament. Now, it's true that a Kirov-class outguns a Tico slightly in terms of deck guns, and I won't claim otherwise. Likewise, I'm comparing a standard Kirov-class with a standard Tico, so if you've made extensive modifications then that would alter the scales.]

[For the record, there is no "standard" Kirov loadout, only a "base" loadout. Every single Kirov was customized, and mine is no exception.]

[I'm going from the base specs, which are all I can find right now.]

I think the Irascible will enter ESG-28 as a mostly unmodified second production run Ticonderoga; I'll mull over possible overhauls, but nothing for a while yet. I'm thinking of some minor additions -- adding two ten-round RAM launchers in addition to the existing CIWS, to be specific, as well as possibly another ten-round Harpoon system. [Is that, at least, doable? When the refit comes, it'll probably be a longer, broader, deeper hull to accomodate additional mastur- err, tactical capabilities.]