StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Covenant wrote: In this version of the account here, it sounds like the mother of Leia knew the Organas more than Ben did and it was her choice to live there. Frankly, I'd even have her marry Bail Organa. It makes little sense that Bacta and cyborging are the only medical inventions in the Star Wars universe, and for Bail and Mrs. Bail to have to resort to adoption. Wouldn't they have ultrasounds? Pregnancy aids? If they can clone people, couldn't Bail and his wife make a kid of their own?

I hate to do what amounts to nitpicking, but it's possible that the Organas considered it a moral cause to take an existing child under their wing rather than just create a new one. We never really learn much of the Organa family form the films (if it was elaborated in the EU, my apologies,) so it's possible that the Organas simply chose to adopt a child out of desire, not need.

Qwerty 42 wrote:I hate to do what amounts to nitpicking, but it's possible that the Organas considered it a moral cause to take an existing child under their wing rather than just create a new one. We never really learn much of the Organa family form the films (if it was elaborated in the EU, my apologies,) so it's possible that the Organas simply chose to adopt a child out of desire, not need.

Well, it's certainly possible, but the dialogue seems contrived and just wrong.

BAIL ORGANA: My wife and I will take the girl. We've always talked of adopting a baby girl. She will be loved with us.

OBI-WAN: And what of the boy?

YODA: To Tatooine. To his family, send him.

Wait, what? I know, I've heard it, but it still seems odd. His family? Let's backtrack one movie for a second, I think something musta' been missed.

OWEN: Owen Lars. This is my girlfriend, Beru.

BERU: Hello.

PADMÉ: I'm Padmé.

OWEN: I guess I'm your stepbrother. I had a feeling you
might show up some day.

Stepbrother? But wait, let's go back, or forwards, it may be, to the final revelations of Luke's past by Kenobi. He says...

BEN: When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.

So they changed Owen from being Ben's brother to Anakin's stepbrother, made it so Leia was full of shit when she said she could remember her mother being sad and that she died when she was very young (if she has magical force rememberences of her Mom on the operating table she should have recalled her brother too, shouldn't she), and for what?

Because we want to perhaps assume Bail has some desire to adopt, and we needed this elaborate framework to draw him in to this orphaned child? If they'd always talked about adopting a girl, why didn't they? Are they bigoted or something? There's got to be a few orphans on Alderaan, let alone across the rest of the Galaxy.

So, if they had a moral reason to adopt a child, why didn't they? If they were waiting for a child of high-born status, so that it would be a worthy member of their family, why not clone? Is anything besides sex-driven procreation considered some sort of quasi-religious sin? It brings up an interesting point--where's the Star Wars era contraception? Did Padme really want the children of a Jedi, who she isn't supposed to be romantic with--let alone intimate? It's harsh, but why did she carry them to term at all?

It seems like some sort of Space Catholicism keeping people from using Star Condoms and morning after medications. Maybe I'm just reading too far into all of their reactions to pregnancy as some sort of mystical, strange act... but frankly, C-3PO and Bail weren't helping.

MEDICAL DROID: Medically, she is completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her.

OBI-WAN: She's dying?

MEDICAL DROID: We don't know why. She has lost the will to live. We need to operate quickly if we are to save the babies.

BAIL ORGANA: Babies??!!

MEDICAL DROID: She's carrying twins.

YODA: Save them, we must. They are our last hope.

The MEDICAL DROID rushes back to the operating room. ARTOO and THREEPIO watch, greatly puzzled. ARTOO BEEPS.

C-3PO: It s some kind of reproductive process, I think.

For a cultural attache droid, C-3P0 seems strangely unaware of the fact that humans give live birth. Threepio is generally just a dumbass all around though, so I suppose that's not as suprising as the revelation that in Star Wars there's no sort of medication for childbirthing pains.

PADME winces from the pain. The MEDICAL DROID is holding the BABY

Maybe she's wincing from the Phantom Pain of the Magical Death Thing that's killing her on the table. You'd think they'd be able to at least try to stabilize her condition somehow, but neither the Jedi nor the medical droids seem to have any idea, or interest frankly, in sparing her from the pain or her eventual demise. He tells her to hang on, essentially. Where's the healing touch Ben? Did you learn that out in the desert too?

Plus, the dialogue doesn't even fit, as I put it down, which is a small side matter but still somewhat important to me, because it's more loose ends that just do not need to be. Besides, this is afterall just what I'd want to change, and I don't think that Bail's position adds anything to his character. It just makes the entire situation look contrived, especially given that nobody knew until the birth that she was even having twins. Added together, it's altogether too cutesy, and the violations of continuity don't help.

Oh well. I hate that whole section, really. But I hope at least my logic follows somewhat, and is at least internally consistant.

Covenant wrote:Because we want to perhaps assume Bail has some desire to adopt, and we needed this elaborate framework to draw him in to this orphaned child? If they'd always talked about adopting a girl, why didn't they? Are they bigoted or something? There's got to be a few orphans on Alderaan, let alone across the rest of the Galaxy.

Or maybe, you know, both Bail and his wife had been too busy to devote much time to a child up until that point. Adding a baby to one's family is a rather large time commitment, and Bail didn't seem like the sort who had much time for personal business, what with the war and all; we have no idea what his wife might have had on her plate.

You can hate the scene all you want, but you don't have to read into it to such a ridiculous extent, especially when there's no reason to believe that the Organa's had any sort of bias or alterior motive.

Well, I don't actually think they had any evil motives, nor would I want other people to. I'll make that much clear. I feel that the situation was contrived, not that it was revealing some actual innate truths about a bigoted royalty on Alderaan. Not even Leia's snippy comments backs that up.

Bail and his wife may have been infertile, or they may also have been very moral people and would rather adopt a child who has no parents than create a new one, in essence wasting. Leia was never told who her real mother was, so Bails wife may be the mother Leia is talking about, and I could see a lot of anxiety over her husband backing a Rebellion against a government capable of wiping a planet clean with only three star destroyers.

Well, Breha Organa had had several miscarriages (one shortly before ROTS...).

Basically. Overhaul/Omit all EU.

- About Eps I-III, Anakin's fall need work, the political happenings are mostly fine with me.

- ANH and ESB are fine on most points. A little more accuracy from stormtroopers could be added.

- Also the Jabba part of ROTJ is mostly ok, except that it could be edited down in size.

- Dark side & Light side would only be philosophical bullcrap from the Jedi & Sith, only one force.

- No genetic force, everyone can learn to use it, but mastering their mind for it would be very hard.

- No insane clones, no Ysalamiri, no Yuuzhan Vong or other forceimmune stuff.

- No Suncrusher, no Byss stuff.

- The battle in the throne room on DS2 goes as in ROTJ, but the tries to recruit Luke should at sound like there's something that would tempt him.

- The ground battle goes badly, Chewie's hijacking of an AT-ST is the only thing that allows them get way from Endor.

- The rebel fleet is mostly wiped out, Ackbar's skills allows a few ships to escape (Lando, Wedge, ...).

- movie 7 or the first EU book would deal with a external threat, like the parasites from ST:TNG episode "Conspiracy", but they would also be force using. It would then focus on Luke who warned by the force is searching for suitable people to train and also focus on Thrawn that would handle the military part.

Covenant wrote:Threepio is generally just a dumbass all around though, so I suppose that's not as suprising as the revelation that in Star Wars there's no sort of medication for childbirthing pains.

We have all sorts of methods for easing childbearing pains today, and women still have to go through this. Because medication has poor sideeffects. As do cesarean section, so both is used no more than necessary. Finally, there's a number of people who wants all natural birth. In short, Padme suffering from pain is no evidence against painkillers. Particularly since we have plenty of evidence for the existance of varying painkillers.

nightmare wrote:We have all sorts of methods for easing childbearing pains today, and women still have to go through this. Because medication has poor sideeffects. As do cesarean section, so both is used no more than necessary. Finally, there's a number of people who wants all natural birth. In short, Padme suffering from pain is no evidence against painkillers. Particularly since we have plenty of evidence for the existance of varying painkillers.

Well I'd hope Bacta-land has invented more potent medications than we have, but it's true. I wasn't hoping for an entirely painless event, but we obviously saw very little blood, and she did die, so what happened? I never understood that. Lost the will to live? What about her kids?

Eh. So while Padme still seems a little... strange to me, I do like this explination and Mange's explinations concerning those aspects of the whole thing. If Breha has had multiple miscarriages, perhaps that too is evidence that lotsa' folks go for natural birthings with as little technological know-how as possible. That seems bizarre to me, but this is Star Wars during the republic, maybe they're into a big "State of Nature" enlightenment era thing at the moment. That accounts for the inconsistancies of not having kids, not simply cloning one, and Padme perhaps forgoing a variety of painkilling reatments all in one package without making a criticism of Star War's medical science. Would that be a fair assessment? Chalk it up to personal choice?

Hmmmm, what would I change...

Well, for starters, I'd make Anakin a little older than he was originally (maybe not as old as he was in ATOC, but still older than nine).

Second, I'd toss that whole 'there are only two Sith deal' and change them from being self destructive when in large numbers to being cold, calculating enemies of the Republic. This would also enable some more climatic battles in my opinion, and generally add to the chaos and fear that the Clone Wars brought about by allowing characters such as Ventress to make G-cannon appearances.

Speaking of which, make an entire movie simply about the Clone Wars. I was a little bugged about the fact that they were skipped (barring the cartoon).

Third, give the villains like Maul back-story and try not to portray him as a wild animal. As badass as he was, I think he always gave me the impression that he was being controlled by his anger, rather than the other way around. I would also not kill him off in the first movie. As much potential as he had, he deserved better than that, there was no real reason he had to lose. (It could have just as easily been him being recalled to try and protect something that would have compromised Palpatine’s true identity, or him kicking Obi-Wan down that shaft and Obi surviving through an act of plot.)

Also, I would give Boba something more as well. I personally liked the way the EU revealed him to be something of an anti-hero, rather than a flat out, faceless bad guy. Along those same lines, show a little more of the Imperial captains themselves (in the EU if necessary) to reveal that their not all greedy corrupt bastards. Given the law of averages, there are bound to be some out there that are actually decent fellows.

I would also change that deal at Endor. I know why Lucas didn't show the little fur balls getting eradicated, but still, it has led to no end of frustration trying to point out to certain unnamed personages at certain unnamed boards that the Troopers are, in fact, competent and very dangerous under normal circumstances.

Finally, all EU novels would have their numbers screened by engineers and physicists to make certain that they are in accordance with one another, so as to avoid x-wings with kilojoule level guns...

About all I can think of at the moment.