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PeZook wrote:They may be obeying the laws of war, but it won't matter to people watching pictures of children blasted apart by laser-guided bombs during taping of "Mr. Rodger's Fascinating Dinosaur World"

Night attack.

Beowulf wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:Ah, what a clusterfuck...

Just a note: if Baerne is a member of both the FTO and CATO, it's a clear cut case of illegality. They wouldn't even have the veneer of having left the FTO to join CATO. So you might want to rethink your post.

Fuck. Okay, I woke up like half an hour before I wrote that and somehow managed to forget that they'd just joined CATO. Don't laugh, I'm serious. -_-;

Forget the whole thing, then. Costas doomed themselves as far as I'm concerned by using nerve gas, but I'm not fighting for CATO's side, either.

I'll send humanitarian aid instead.

EDIT: Okay, I'll be less drastic than that. I just edited out the reference to the FTO from my post.

Mr. Gero and Shroom are still together, aye? Why don't we talk about this?

Tell me how you feel about all this.

Wow Coyote, you fucked up the formatting on your page hard core dude. Luckily, being a friendly Wiki Admin, I fixed it for you. It still sucks, but at least it doesn't have code all over the place.

Anyway, easiest way to avoid that is this:

1) Register.
2) Go to Special pages -> Preferences
3) In Preferences, click on the Editing tab.
4) Then check the box that says Disable Rich Text Editing

That way, you'll default to editing via wikitext. If there's a way to make that default across the entire Wiki, I haven't found it yet. I'll keep looking though.

If you are going to RP Raj, bear in mind that his country was for many years a close ally of San Dorado indulging in the same "war of the week". It will be a stretch for them to be suddenly "afraid".

Even if they feel bloody betrayed, they would be loathe to be involved in a foreign alliance especially considering the amount of venom he directed at Tian Xia when Czech jumped ship.

What? Coyote, are you fucking kidding me? The Tanstaafl Raj is my closest fucking regional ally as well as a crucial trading partner and has been for years! Tanstaafl is the biggest non-NFT investor in the wilderness exploitation programs (Valley Forge and Port MacArthur), they rely on our harbors for most of their imports. We've enjoyed excellent relations with Tanstaafl since San Dorado was founded by Shroomanian on land bought from the Maharaja.

Moreover, Tanstaafl has been a contributing member of the North Frequesuan Navy since its conception way before Coilerburg was incorporated -- our carrier is named after one of their deities and the Chief of Staff of the NFN is a Tanstaafl admiral. Half my marine corps is actually Gurkhas. The Raj's Rafale fighters are produced in San Dorado. So is most of their other military equipment. In return San Dorado buys most of its foodstuffs from the Raj, and has for decades. Plus their ground army is so huge they could probably roll over me if they so desired.

And these people would suddenly be afraid and seeking help from the MESS? Seriously, get the fuck out of here.

MESSheads, what the fuck do you guys want?

Hey, this thread's at 1277 posts. Aren't we a little bit overdue for Comment Thread VII?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:If you are going to RP Raj, bear in mind that his country was for many years a close ally of San Dorado indulging in the same "war of the week". It will be a stretch for them to be suddenly "afraid".

Even if they feel bloody betrayed, they would be loathe to be involved in a foreign alliance especially considering the amount of venom he directed at Tian Xia when Czech jumped ship.

Ah, you would appear to have your Raj's confused. Tanstaafl Raj is a little country next to San Dorado. Raj Ahten is the former player of Indophal. Taanstafl Raj would appear to be the country being discussed.

Czechmate wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:If you are going to RP Raj, bear in mind that his country was for many years a close ally of San Dorado indulging in the same "war of the week". It will be a stretch for them to be suddenly "afraid".

Even if they feel bloody betrayed, they would be loathe to be involved in a foreign alliance especially considering the amount of venom he directed at Tian Xia when Czech jumped ship.

Ah, you would appear to have your Raj's confused. Tanstaafl Raj is a little country next to San Dorado. Raj Ahten is the former player of Indophal. Taanstafl Raj would appear to be the country being discussed.

Yes, apparently.

Regardless, the Raj in question happens to be more or less a foot stool of San Dorado for so long that unless they lost their heads and are due to spend time in the asylum, there is no way they would shoot themselves in the foot.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Yes, apparently.

Regardless, the Raj in question happens to be more or less a foot stool of San Dorado for so long that unless they lost their heads and are due to spend time in the asylum, there is no way they would shoot themselves in the foot.

I cannot disagree, there.

I edited part of it:

"No, no appointment," Jindaloo said, "This desire for a meeting-- it is hasty. Some of us in the Taanstafl Raj are very concerned with the regrettable incidents in Costa de los Cincos Muertes right now."

Please note that Jindaloo asked for Canissian help, not MESS help. Because Canissia was seen as "doing something" in Vinlands (even though the actual negotiations were carried out by Shinra) and has been largely neutral.

Jindaloo now represents "some people" in Raj, not all of Raj.

Face it, CATO expands to Baernland... Baernland then invades Costas on what may be trumped-up reasons. Baerne and Costas hadn't been fighting before, it just.. happened.

There may well be some, indeed, who fear their "friendly neighbor" suddenly getting hungry. Especially the ones that joined CATO and have protection to fall back on.

I'm trying to role-play actual consequences for actions. There's not going to be running about willy-nilly invading people and breaking alliances without some people getting nervous.

Think about it-- what of South Africa and Nigeria suddenly unassed the African Union, and within 24 hours signed on with NATO, and then a week later, suddenly South Africa invades Namibia. Don't you think the rest of the remaining African Union states wouldn't be nervous? Even people in states that are "staunch allies" of both countries would start having doubts.

Invasion on suspicious grounds are not going to spread feelings of complacency.

The Costa is more like goddamn Somalia.

MESSheads, you're tooling around right in the backyard of both San Dorado and Baerne. The Costa is some crapsack hole ruled by a Mohammad Farrah Aidid type of dick. Do we really want an incident over some crapsack hole? It's not worth it, unless you guys are looking for something to make a fuss about. It's impolite.

Face it, CATO expands to Baernland... Baernland then invades Costas on what may be trumped-up reasons. Baerne and Costas hadn't been fighting before, it just.. happened.

Prior to recent events, even San Dorado had a presence in the Costa because the place was so shitty it needed stabilizing. If I recall correctly.

Coyote wrote:Jindaloo now represents "some people" in Raj, not all of Raj.

That's not how the Tanstaafl Raj works. You either speak for the Maharaja or you don't. If you don't you have fuck-all to say about anything. So Mr. Jindaloo at best would represent a random group of concerned citizens--and they would be few and far-between considering how advantageous the Raj's relationship with San Dorado has always been. They're de facto a member of the NFT, and would be de jure if it weren't for the fact that they can't suffer the Maharaja to lose his position as top guy.

Think about it-- what of South Africa and Nigeria suddenly unassed the African Union, and within 24 hours signed on with NATO, and then a week later, suddenly South Africa invades Namibia. Don't you think the rest of the remaining African Union states wouldn't be nervous? Even people in states that are "staunch allies" of both countries would start having doubts.

Let me make this as clear as I can. San Dorado and Tanstaafl share a mutually beneficent relationship that goes back all the way to the founding of the city-state. We can't exist without their food, and they cannot exist without our harbors. If either of us falls apart, the economic shockwave will make sure that the other follows suit. Furthermore their military is intimately entwined with ours to the point where neither of us has a navy of our own. And lastly of course San Dorado didn't invade anyone. In fact by now we ought to have a reputation as a pretty goddamn superfantastic ally considering not just the way we deal with Tanstaafl but also all the trouble we've gone through looking out for Coilerburg and Sabika in the recent past.

If there is anyone, anyone at all that they will ask for help--ignoring for a moment that having to ask for help is a serious loss of face in the Raj--it will be us.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Prior to recent events, even San Dorado had a presence in the Costa because the place was so shitty it needed stabilizing. If I recall correctly.

I still do. That's what Buffer Zone North is for. Baerne did the same in the south.

OH NO THE INHUMANITY *FUND COSTA COCKSUCKERS TO BOMB BARNE CAPITAL* HURR I AGITATE DOODS

Unless I missed the part where the government of Costa de las Cinquos Muertes asked for a Baernish Armored Division to roll across the border, which I'm pretty sure didn't happen, Baerne fired the first shot, so to speak, by essentially invading. Then they get outraged over the Costas striking back, which to me seems like a reasonable reaction against an invading force, even if they're probably going to get screwed for it.

Also, chemical weapons, in the world, are not banned by any treaty, unless CATO went and held a secret meaning and produced a secret treaty, but that wouldn't apply to the Costas anyway. Plus, as mentioned, they used it on their own soil. So yeah, chemical weapons suck and you can work up rage all you want, but there's nothing you can do about it, from a legal sense. Their deployment didn't break any laws or treaty.

Like San Dorado, the Duchy of Baerne has for decades maintained a buffer zone within the Costa to ensure the peace and stability of the border regions--because the Costa government was incapable of doing so itself. Whilst it may well be true that Baernish forces crossed from that buffer zone into the Costa proper they nominally did so in order to keep the peace, which is what they're there for, so the issue is hardly as clear cut as 'they invaded, they bad'.

Baerne? WTF?

There's a reason why there was 2 squadrons of planes detailed to supress those same S-400 SAMs you're claiming were so effective. It's unlikely that more than a flight of MiGs would be able to scramble against the incoming force. It's simply too difficult to keep more than that on the requisite 5 minute alert. So, many of the A-4s conducting SEAD are probably gone, but their sacrifice should have allowed the strike package to operate with impunity for the duration of the strike. So your airfield's fuel farms got hit, resulting in not much being able to actually launch until you can fix them and refill them with fuel.

The MiGs should have gotten splashed by the F-106s flying top cover, in any case. Sixteen to one odds aren't that great. It gets worse when you have a sneak attack at 3 am. Going ha ha, all my stuff isn't damaged a bit won't cut it.

--

Out of game, I personally don't want Baerne to just annex Costa militarily without a fight. So he's getting one.

In game, the Huang Di is affronted by the hypocrisy that Baerne, and now San Dorado have shown with Costa. They're unwilling to intervene when FTO nations have coups (multiple in one case), but feel perfectly fine in messing around with some craphole that has no friends.

I'm not actually helping them. I'm just keeping people from helping their enemies. So far, anyway.

My revised OOB is now in the OOB thread for you folks to see.

Beowulf wrote:In game, the Huang Di is affronted by the hypocrisy that Baerne, and now San Dorado have shown with Costa. They're unwilling to intervene when FTO nations have coups (multiple in one case), but feel perfectly fine in messing around with some craphole that has no friends.

That's fascinating. In-game, Sidney Hank thinks the Huang-Di is a massive hypocrite as well, because he wails about the 'mandate of heaven' when the outcome of a revolution happens to jibe with his interests, and sends fleets and fighters when it does not. So what affronts him is not something Mr. Hank particularly cares about.

Oh and furthermore, San Dorado isn't actually intervening in anything, so I don't know what that's even supposed to be about. You'll notice how we're patiently waiting for the situation to resolve itself, whilst calling on all parties to reconcile themselves. Like we did in the Vineyards. And like we did in Coilerburg. You know, that sounds almost consistent.

Alright, bear in mind I haven't responded to Jindaloo yet, nor have I promised anything to anyone.

If we want to RP the massive, practically overnight expansion of CATO, the breaking of the FTO treaty, and the then-sudden invasion of a sovereign country by a newly-backed CATO ally who pretends to be a victim of the invaded country, and everyone in the neighborhood is just peachy with that, hey, I'm cool.

We'll investigate Jindaloo's claim, find he's part of a small group of minor agitators, and dismiss him as irrelevent.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:My revised OOB is now in the OOB thread for you folks to see.

Put it on the Wiki, slacker.

SiegeTank wrote:That's fascinating. In-game, Sidney Hank thinks the Huang-Di is a massive hypocrite as well, because he wails about the 'mandate of heaven' when the outcome of a revolution happens to jibe with his interests, and sends fleets and fighters when it does not. So what affronts him is not something Mr. Hank particularly cares about.

Oh, wow. I cannot help but challenge you to have the brave Mister Hank actually say that in public.

I, uh, don't have a wiki account?

(Do you NEED an account to do that stuff? And HOW do you edit a wiki anyway? Never did any wiking before. Ever. Mang!)

COYOTE:
You should have that Jingaroo dude be a prankster, trying to rickroll or whatever King Arik.



Aw, man. Enough about this war crap. Let's go build bridges. Arik, should we go with a MEGAHUEG BRIDGE that'd connect Canissia with Shroomania? That'd be one ENORMOUS bridge! It'd be... holy crap, I don't know how BIG it'll be.

AWESOME!

EDIT:

Don't challenge Sidney Hank, man. He fucking blew up a goddamn tank with a fucking bazooka.

Even the Huang Di's mythical thousand shadow palm strike can't do that!

Some sort of...Arikroll? :V