StarDestroyer.Net BBS

That's pointless. The USSR can't declare war on Astaria in a meaningful fashion - moreover, since both are similar size nations, Astaria could actually inflict sizeable damage to the attacking USSR Navy before the CSR comes into play and crushes Astaria like a bug, finally going no holds barred.

Frankly, risking your Navy to pull yourself and your neighbor into a massive war with an overseas enemy doesn't look too wise on the political front.

Stas Bush wrote:That's pointless. The USSR can't declare war on Astaria in a meaningful fashion - moreover, since both are similar size nations, Astaria could actually inflict sizeable damage to the attacking USSR Navy before the CSR comes into play and crushes Astaria like a bug, finally going no holds barred.

Frankly, risking your Navy to pull yourself and your neighbor into a massive war with an overseas enemy doesn't look too wise on the political front.

I don't actually plan on starting a war with Astaria. It's just a thought...I might ask their government to return those people to me, but that's about it. Starting wars with other players is not something I would do without the approval of my allies.

Nice to know that my big brother is there for me.

Heh, this could actually be a good political move. After all, the Border Staters don't have anywhere to go: they'll be left in indentured servitude for 10 years, in Astaria, without a country...

You could help people by doing that. And now's the perfect time, since Asaria set up a comittee to review all the newly-nationalized slaves. We could then start a propaganda campaign saying how cool the Regent is for doing that. In three-four years we can have a more liberal Astaria, with perhaps some buttsore middle class families still thinking they were cheated.

Just let Stas and Steve keep up the rhethoric so that the Regent can keep his people in a frenzy

I would crush anyone who dares to go to war with a nation that's in the SNC, especially if someone endangers the USSR, since you're my so far only successful and mutually beneficial socialist ally, and you are crucial to my own security as most CSR and SNC defense plans are based factoring your political presence in the Old Continent - and other SNC nations of course.

The other socialist factions in this new world are useless tripe. Just look at the PRSF-ians or those "maroon' idiots who got curbstomped by the slavers.

However, the opposite is also true - nations which aren't allies of the CSR, which are most non-SNC nations - can shed their blood as much as they want. This is none of the CSR's business. Of course, we would paint either one or both sides as imperialists for propaganda sake, but we won't interfere, just observe and learn.

Likewise, in political conflicts, the diplomatic "weight" of the CSR would be thrown behind socialist friendly nations or Slavic Confederacy allies, but not for others.

Stas Bush wrote:Just let's say I gave Hugo Shroomvez a full T-80 tank brigade from my reserve army stock, with point-defense Buk-MB vehicles and some S-300-PMU2 SAMs, and some Msta-S artillery. Lots of Hinds and some Su-37s (I wanted to retire them anyway). Let his mission in Veleria prove itself.

Okay where exactly would this force materialize? I'm just checking by the way. I'd be happy to play it this way.

I'm glad to hear that.

Also: I would be willing to work on PeZook's idea.

Okay where exactly would this force materialize?

I haven't figured out where is what. Yet. I don't know where Hugo is supposed to be.

Just where the hell ar those Velerian regions that you don't fully control?

Stas Bush wrote:

Okay where exactly would this force materialize?

I haven't figured out where is what. Yet. I don't know where Hugo is supposed to be.

Just where the hell ar those Velerian regions that you don't fully control?

Straight north of the big white spot, and a little to the east. It's the Velarian inland, fairly close to the great Velarian inland range that stands before the big internal desert. Untill now they've smuggled supplies through El-Akhabarat, and gotten some by air. Getting there might be tricky, unless Shroomvez say... invaded Bissauru, which has the benefit of having a lot of oil, and then tried to move across the panhandle seperating Bissauru from Velaria. Given the current disposition of Astarian forces, and a hope of being able to rouse rebellious sentiments (plus link up with the MaLF) the idea might appeal to someone like Shroomvez. There are of course quite a few problems with this idea, not least that he has to win within two weeks or not at all, but then again the Bay of Pigs was once considered a reasonable idea.

You probably understand that unlike the US, I could be at least somewhat actively assisting Shroomvez' landing and push in Bissauru with naval assets? After all, this is not a Cuba war, this is more like an african conflict in Veleria of all places.

But then, we'll have to consider first who controls Shroomvez. I also need to get clues on what kind of goals Steve and Lonestar pursue in Veleria and vis-a-vis Astaria. I know Shep's goals (yeah, yeah, everybody dies. boring ), but the other two remain more of a mystery and thus a competent player must first question what his allies are in for

PeZook wrote:So, Rogue...are we continuing the meeting or what?

Yes indeed. Response made. Highlights of which are a Shinra Republic statement saying good things about Astarian improvements towards "certain questions concerning human rights" or something like that, avoiding mention of abolition or emancipation, since I assume the deception of the Astarian populace by their government is part of what's making this work.

I'll also offer a consulate to be opened in my nation and ask for one to be opened in theirs. And I'll offer aid of various sorts, subject to some negotiations (basically it's not totally open-ended like "Oh sure I'll sell you a carrier" or anything like that; but for food, medicine, that sort of thing).

You can consider the above to have happened IU since I don't feel like making another game post basically repeating myself.

Incidently, for the FUN Conference, are you going to publically offer to help Astaria with their emancipation? And call it that? Norseman can correct me on this, but it seems if he's trying to deceive his populace about this, having a bunch of foreign nations showing up saying, "Jolly good show on that emancipation of yours!" might not be the best idea, at least not right now.

RogueIce wrote:Incidently, for the FUN Conference, are you going to publically offer to help Astaria with their emancipation? And call it that? Norseman can correct me on this, but it seems if he's trying to deceive his populace about this, having a bunch of foreign nations showing up saying, "Jolly good show on that emancipation of yours!" might not be the best idea, at least not right now.

Byzantium agreed to aid them in repatriating slaves of foreign origin. We intend to expand our assistance as well.

Incidently, for the FUN Conference, are you going to publically offer to help Astaria with their emancipation? And call it that? Norseman can correct me on this, but it seems if he's trying to deceive his populace about this, having a bunch of foreign nations showing up saying, "Jolly good show on that emancipation of yours!" might not be the best idea, at least not right now.

Their citizens don't have access to foreign TV or Internet

That's beautiful about it. We can propagandize all we want.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Steve wrote:For what it's worth, Cascadia is aware of the situation and that's why we're counseling restraint. Keep the pressure up with covert action in the rest of the inherently unstable Velerian alliance so that the Astarian government needn't worry about the danger seeming to pass and undoing public support for their initiative while other states - PeZookia and Byzantium - lead the diplomatic effort (and we would be doing things like joining international efforts at giving economic aid to Astaria in exchange for their staying the new course).

Unfortunately, Byzantium has suspicions of Shepistan involvement, and that we suspect a loose cannon has been unleashed. We would be thus reluctant to get entangled with the problem. The past game of a nuke flying and destroying a SAM site plus a city has a huge collateral damage still simmers.

Essentially this: Unless the conspirators involved in this nonsense come clean, Byzantium will not be a pawn or some chess piece in this great game of realpolitik and get its damn ass fried by accident.

Um, I was making reference to the fact that your state seems to be joining PeZookia in encouraging diplomatic solutions and even careful support for Astaria. Not making you the good cop to the covert anti-slavery group's bad cop.

PeZook wrote:

Incidently, for the FUN Conference, are you going to publically offer to help Astaria with their emancipation? And call it that? Norseman can correct me on this, but it seems if he's trying to deceive his populace about this, having a bunch of foreign nations showing up saying, "Jolly good show on that emancipation of yours!" might not be the best idea, at least not right now.

Their citizens don't have access to foreign TV or Internet

That's beautiful about it. We can propagandize all we want.

Indeed... Astarians are often pig ignorant, especially now that the entire country has been mobilized and closed down.

Gwen Tate may show up later. Depends on how long this game lasts. Just a note: Q's a dick.

Just for the record this whole recent war and stuff is annoying as all hell, and I want it to be over with. I have a story thread in mind to bring about an end to the whole thing, but to do that I need peace. The plan basically was to have some wag the dog wars in nowhereistan, and then to write my concluding posts. However the way the war is dragging on I can't get to the stuff I was planning on doing. It annoys me.

Norseman wrote:
Indeed... Astarians are often pig ignorant, especially now that the entire country has been mobilized and closed down.

Like "Microsoft is a DPRK agency and this is the finest PS in the world "*shows Windows 3.1 to Western Reporters* Ignorant?

Lonestar wrote:

Norseman wrote:
Indeed... Astarians are often pig ignorant, especially now that the entire country has been mobilized and closed down.

Like "Microsoft is a DPRK agency and this is the finest PS in the world "*shows Windows 3.1 to Western Reporters* Ignorant?

Almost but not quite, and in most cases the ignorance is voluntary. Astarians would very much like for the rest of the world to go away. In the end if the price for that is abolishing slavery, well, that's part of why the Lords were so willing to push it through morality notwithstanding.

The Lords on the other hand knows what's what, which is why they've been majority abolitionist for nigh on fifty years now.

Just let's say I gave Hugo Shroomvez a full T-80 tank brigade from my reserve army stock, with point-defense Buk-MB vehicles and some S-300-PMU2 SAMs, and some Msta-S artillery. Lots of Hinds and some Su-37s (I wanted to retire them anyway). Let his mission in Veleria prove itself.

Soon sooon, South Veleria shall fall and become the Soviet Socialist Republic of Veleria (SSRV)

And finally my little war story starts. I tried hard to pick a place that others had minimal interests in (you know how hard it is to find a decent NPC state somebody else isn't already messing with?) and those that did were consulted beforehand.

So I'm basically asking that you guys let me run with it. It'll basically end up with Rangatara returned into something like the status quo, though with fewer tanks and airplanes.

I'd appreciate it if everyone held off on everything that involves Astaria, I just need a little while to get my affairs in order. I'll be in Oslo for a week, but I should be able to post something on monday. I got a great idea in mind and it'd come shortly after the attack, possibly during the FUN conference, and it'd be something I think you'd have to react to.

Well, I'm not posting. I hope everyone sees.

Well, looks like Q is a bigger dick than imagined. Breaking up marriages? YES PLEASE!

Shroom, or FTO Guys, how much would the following order cost, and how long will it take to be made?

100 3rd-4th generation Multirole Fighters
50 3rd generation tactical bombers
50 3rd generation Interceptors

Depends on who it's from. Keep in mind that those of us building 4.5 Gen and 5th Gen aircraft may no longer have the machinery tools for producing 3rd Gen (IIRC even 4th Gen fighters, IRL, can't be reproduced in some places, IIRC the US for instance destroyed the machinery tooling for the F-14).