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I'd like to counter the complaints about being on the recieving end of arty. I'm currently driving an M-37, and what I find really frustrating is that the gun takes a week to aim, ten days to reload, and still manages to miss a stationary target more than half the time. Not near misses, either, the shell sometimes lands a block away. Is there a wind speed indicator somewhere that I'm not seeing, or does American arty just suck that bad?

Nah, I'm pretty good at not hitting a stationary vehicle with an aiming reticle the size of the vehicle and I'm using german arty. (Bison and Wespe) It seems the Wespe is a little better at actually hitting the enemy though.

But, yeah, once you're getting to high tier arty, the lack of accuracy is offset by actual splash damage. Not really noticed it myself, but if/when I get further down the med tree, I'm sure I'll find out.

Currently, the 3001 (P) is... passable.

PhilosopherOfSorts wrote:I'd like to counter the complaints about being on the recieving end of arty. I'm currently driving an M-37, and what I find really frustrating is that the gun takes a week to aim, ten days to reload, and still manages to miss a stationary target more than half the time. Not near misses, either, the shell sometimes lands a block away. Is there a wind speed indicator somewhere that I'm not seeing, or does American arty just suck that bad?

Yep. That's why I dislike arty as a mechanic. It sucks from both ends. It doesn't hit consistently enough to make the arty players have fun (I've quit twice at tier V), and it's inconsistent enough that the team can get down to the fun business of actually fighting most of the time, but that just means when you actually really get hit it's ultra frustrating. It's because it's so inconsistent and the peaks are so high. It's frustrating because you don't know how much damage you're going to take, or when you're going to get ultrascrewed. You can't even say that it's because you drove poorly or the guy shot well because it's all random. It's a lot like fire in that it's a lot more annoying than the satisfaction you see. At least with fire you can aim for the engine and cackle with glee when you set fires, with artillery you aren't even playing the damage dealer, so you can't get any satisfaction, and it's annoying for the arty players because it's so inconsistent. Yeah, the earlier ones are a lot more accurate and fun, but the high tier ones are annoying.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Their entire design for artillery is completely bass-ackward retarded on a fundamental level. xthetenth does a pretty good job of explaining why it just sucks as a game mechanic.

It should work in the complete opposite manner they've taken it in: Virtually impossible to score a direct hit, but a significant amount of splash damage. Improve reload speeds and ammo capacity. Then it functions like artillery actually should function rather than this shitty sniper-mode it is now; as an area-saturation weapon. Make the next shot more accurate every time you fire at the same area, so it better serves its gameplay purpose of discouraging camping in a bush somewhere. Then with the splash damage, it might actually de-incentivize sitting behind a goddamn rock on Karelia for 14 minutes instead of encouraging it.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again: Their entire design for artillery is completely bass-ackward retarded on a fundamental level. xthetenth does a pretty good job of explaining why it just sucks as a game mechanic.

It should work in the complete opposite manner they've taken it in: Virtually impossible to score a direct hit, but a significant amount of splash damage. Improve reload speeds and ammo capacity. Then it functions like artillery actually should function rather than this shitty sniper-mode it is now; as an area-saturation weapon. Make the next shot more accurate every time you fire at the same area, so it better serves its gameplay purpose of discouraging camping in a bush somewhere. Then with the splash damage, it might actually de-incentivize sitting behind a goddamn rock on Karelia for 14 minutes instead of encouraging it.

As it stands, getting shot at by arty is (Belo)russian roulette than a calculated (or calculable) risk, the way it should be. The real problem with arty is the real things it should be doing are tracer dependent, that is sniping things that are sticking around long enough to be giving a good idea of their location. What I'd be tempted to do (read my whacky idea that I came up with in a second) is give them pinpoint accuracy with a long gun laying time to encourage shooting stationary targets, and a tactical view that doesn't show tanks spotted by allies, but instead gives dayglo tracers, so if you stay still and fire you can get rained on no matter what. That'd encourage arty to shoot enemy arty and invisible tanks rather than just spray at the poor bastard caught out and maybe randomly totally spronk him. That might be annoying for arty players though, but it'd be worth a shot.

Anyone else got ideas?

Also, something else, try to remember to get on the chat, I've got premium, coffee's got premium, and if any of ya want to platoon, I know I wouldn't mind it. Plus randomly chatting is fun too.

xthetenth wrote: I'd say the medium tree is also well balanced, though I haven't played as high as the heavies. All the tier Vs rock, the tier VIs all have some quirks but seem good in their own way (The E8 and the VK 36 need pen)

This is true for the E8 but the VK3601 gets a high penetration gun - it just needs more damage for normal AP rounds.

I had a fair amount of success with the conical gun in beta. Don't know how it would perform now, though.

It has good penetration, but the damage is less than a hundred a shot so it takes a lot of shots to do substantial amounts of damage.

I seem to remember having totally written the conic off because the short 88 with HE is capable of very similar things in terms of dps and alpha, but I'm not totally sure about that. I'll run the calcs when I get back from work, but I think it's like the howitzer and long 76 on the KV without the accuracy difference.

I went with the 88 on the VK for those reasons; plus the fact that on things that could be penetrated with AP the 88 would wreck their day.

The conic is a rich mans gun. This thing is nasty with gold rounds. 85/165 or 95/165 damage and the gun would be useful with normal AP rounds too.

I agree with the arty thing, I also think that it should be doing less direct damage and instead doing things like tossing tracks, messing up view ports and the like even on near misses. You might kill fuck all directly but would help a ton by keeping people locked down.

Is it just me or is the T-43 a really bad tank? It feels just like the T-34-85, but the T-34-85 was kept decent by the grace of its gun having a load of penetration and good damage compared to it's competitors, but instead of competing against the M4A3E8 and it's anemic penetration, it's up against the T20 with a powerful gun, better speed, similar handling, far better aiming, and a much better silhouette and hitboxes. I'm not qualified to speak about the VK (DB), but it moves well and I've seen it bounce big tanks' shells. The T-43 has a mediocre gun, drives okay but not great and doesn't bounce. Even worse, it aims really slowly, the greatest curse a medium could have.

Imperial Overlord wrote:It has good penetration, but the damage is less than a hundred a shot so it takes a lot of shots to do substantial amounts of damage.

The conical with normal ammo is practically worthless, it's better to use the 88 by far. With Gold ammo, it suddenly changes from mediocre to a horrifying tank reaper. The only thing that I've had bounce it consistently so far is the side armour of a PzIV. And I don't really understand that.

Now I've got the T6 collection of German meds, the 3601 is probably the best all-rounder of the lot.
The 3001(H) feels like a PzIV on steriods but has that hull of soft cheese. Still, if all they can hit is the turret, it's not too bad.
The 3001(P), now I've got the second engines and the thing can actaully move, feels fairly solid. Main advantage over the (H) is the fact it's got that rarest of things amongst german tanks: a front-positioned turret. It's bigger and slightly less well-armoured than the 3601, but with the final engines should be able to use the fact it's 20kph faster to be a pretty good vehicle.

I could never stand the 3001P. I've always said the P stands for shit-Piece. Once you upgrade the gun enough it becomes passable, but I just skipped it entirely in the live release and jumped straight from the Pz3/4 to the 3002DB. The DB, by contrast, has always been a beast. So much so that it easily outperforms its successor the Panther. The reason for that is that the DB and Panther are almost completely identical, but the Panther is (for the time being still) placed a tier higher with the same stats as a Tier 7. The DB also has the advantage of excellent sloped armor all around, whereas the Panther has very poor and very exposed side armor. The Panther would be better by virtue of having enough ammo to actually be effective for more than 5 minutes of combat, but loses out on the fact that it never survives to the 5 minute mark in the first place.

I'll second the kudos on the DB. Never driven one myself, but I've faced it many times and it's really good. I normally don't even bother distinguishing between the four different VK tanks except for the DB.

Also, funnily, as the bottom-feeding KV in a match full of Tier 8s, I ended the match with 4 kills including an IS-4 and T-44. It was hilarious.

While all the German tank drivers are here, I have a pz 4 that I'm not sure what to do with. What should I go for, the heavies or the mediums? If I remember right the VK 3601 will lead to everything and I kinda liked it. So do you think I should go for the E-50 and the longest gun in the game (88mmL100, yes, 100, and I'll throw a pic link soon) or the heavies because I don't have enough of the things? It's not like I'm hurting for anything and my Pershing and T34 will stay my main tanks, so just what do you guys think is best?

The VK3601 won't do you wrong, really. Probably the best of the T6 options. The Tiger's decent enough once you get the long 88 for it, but has to be played snipe; the subsystems are made of bone china. The King Tiger, though... I liked a lot. I can't speak for the 4502 or the Maus, but IIRC, they have the rolling glacier playstyle instead of the snipeyness that pervades the rest of the tree.

Med-wise, I've got as far as the 3001(P). The (H) was pretty decent, if you liked the PzIV, you'll like the (H). The (P), as mentioned above isn't exactly stellar. I don't think I've ever heard real complaints about the 3002 though.

Yeah, I had a beta tiger. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't great either. Might as well complete the set though, if the KT is that fun to drive.

Oh, I said I'd link to this and here it is: E-50 with 88 L100 gun I think I'd roll the 10.5 fancy gun from the PII than you very much.

In terms of all the T8s, if I didn't have my Lowe, I'd be driving the KT. And not just because I'm pretty much stuck on one tree.

Also, that gun may well be longer and sturdier than even the M6A2 Compensator. How will the US answer that?

Vanas wrote:In terms of all the T8s, if I didn't have my Lowe, I'd be driving the KT. And not just because I'm pretty much stuck on one tree.

Also, that gun may well be longer and sturdier than even the M6A2 Compensator. How will the US answer that?

Girth. It's all about girth, and the US already has the thickest, most rigid barrel on a tank. Can't wait to get one.

I'd say go heavies with the German tanks unless you don't play premium. The Tiger II is simply too good to past up compared to the Panther.

If you aren't on premium, then cost limitations will probably limit you to tier 6 or 7 play... in which case it's probably good to pick up the VK DB medium.

Okay, I just think I won the award for most undeserved award. I just got a top gun in my T34 which included:

-Tiger II
-Pershing
-VK 3601(H)
-Wolverine
-Panzer III
-Leopard
-Panzerjäger I

The IS-4 on the other team got six kills including me (I was pretty beat up so he drove up and oneshotted me before I could respond) but I got the top gun. Hooray? Oh, and we also managed to lose.

I also heard rumors about the E-100 that might be interesting. If I remember right it'll have two gun options, and the bigger one will hit very very hard but have low penetration, but it has buckets of HP, pretty good armor (read a good few weak spots) and can do about 30 kph. It should make a great assault tank, and the E-75 should too because it's apparently quick. Also the Porsche Tiger might be the most heavily armored Tier 7, it's got a whole lot of 200mm armor. Should be an interesting set of new tanks.

Sweet jumping jesus. Just put the ugly-as-fuck schmallturm on the Pz4 after choking down the bile that rose at seeing it on the functional design of the tank. Then I stuck the 75mm L/70 in the thing and hit battle.

Tearing shit up. I was even penetrating IS3's.

I still loathe the goddamed thing. It's ugly as sin, has a glacial traverse speed and is so goddamed heavy it's impacting my dash speed and turns. But it can pack that gun...

Now I'm torn between the 3601 and 3001(H).

The Pz4's gun isn't called a deathray for nothing.