I've never seen you and Trump in the same room with my own eyes.loomer wrote: ↑2020-04-17 10:11pmHave you ever actually seen Murdoch and Bezos in the same room with your own eyes?MKSheppard wrote: ↑2020-04-17 09:29pmWashington Post is pushing it. I guess Jeff Bezos is really Murdoch?mr friendly guy wrote: ↑2020-04-17 12:28pmMurdoch media have been pushing this conspiracy theory for a while now.
The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Damn,I am unmasked and my sinister plot to destroy the West by exposing the fundamental flaws in the democratic process is revealed! And it's all because of you meddling kids!Beowulf wrote: ↑2020-04-17 10:36pmI've never seen you and Trump in the same room with my own eyes.loomer wrote: ↑2020-04-17 10:11pmHave you ever actually seen Murdoch and Bezos in the same room with your own eyes?MKSheppard wrote: ↑2020-04-17 09:29pm
Washington Post is pushing it. I guess Jeff Bezos is really Murdoch?
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
I smell a conspiracy theory. Jeff Bezos and Rupert Murdoch are secretly the same person.MKSheppard wrote: ↑2020-04-17 09:29pmWashington Post is pushing it. I guess Jeff Bezos is really Murdoch?mr friendly guy wrote: ↑2020-04-17 12:28pmMurdoch media have been pushing this conspiracy theory for a while now.
Otherwise what Aerius said.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
- mr friendly guy
- The Doctor
- Posts: 11235
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
My irony meter just broke.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heat ... SKBN21Z07G
If the shoe was on the other foot, and it was a US geopolitical rival needing to purchase medical equipment and complained about poor quality products because they didn't buy from a manufacturer approved by the FDA, and shortly after complained about US tightening restrictions, what would a "patriotic" American say?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heat ... SKBN21Z07G
So after slamming China for poor quality products when it turns out Western countries purchased either the wrong product (antibody kits instead of PCR kits, masks for civilian rather than medical use) and/or from non Chinese government approved vendors, they now have the gall to complain about tightening export quotas to maintain quality control.U.S. appeals to China to revise export rules on coronavirus medical gear
David Brunnstrom
4 MIN READ
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has asked China to revise new export quality control rules for protective equipment needed in the coronavirus outbreak so they are not an obstacle to timely supplies, a spokesman for the U.S. State Department said.
China tightened restrictions on exports of masks and other personal protective equipment (PPE) a week ago, calling for shipments to be subjected to a mandatory customs inspection.
The move followed highly publicized complaints from some governments and hospitals that they received PPE from China that they considered faulty.
“We appreciate the efforts to ensure quality control. But we do not want this to serve as an obstacle for the timely export of important supplies,” a State Department spokesman said late on Thursday.
“The U.S. Government has raised these concerns with (China). We have requested that China revise its new requirements to allow the expeditious export of vital PPE to the United States,” he said.
The United States is heavily reliant on medical supplies produced in China, a major strategic and trade rival, something that has been highlighted in the pandemic, in which the United States has been the worst-hit country.
On Friday, Republican Senator Kelly Loeffler accused China of holding up shipments of test kits.
“Testing is core to opening our country back up. ... I’m concerned that China’s holding up test kits,” she told Fox News.
“They’re playing games with trade policy to prevent us, the United States, from getting the testing that we need.”
If the shoe was on the other foot, and it was a US geopolitical rival needing to purchase medical equipment and complained about poor quality products because they didn't buy from a manufacturer approved by the FDA, and shortly after complained about US tightening restrictions, what would a "patriotic" American say?
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Whoever the hell is actually printing it, the only reason this "COVID-19 was a Chinese bioweapon" nonsense is getting mainstream press attention is because scapegoating the PRC for causing the crisis is a good distraction from all the ways the Trump administration (for a loose definition of the word) fucked it up, potentially costing many powerful interests their useful idiot come November.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
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-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
I prefer to use "Trump Regime", personally.Zaune wrote: ↑2020-04-18 12:14am Whoever the hell is actually printing it, the only reason this "COVID-19 was a Chinese bioweapon" nonsense is getting mainstream press attention is because scapegoating the PRC for causing the crisis is a good distraction from all the ways the Trump administration (for a loose definition of the word) fucked it up, potentially costing many powerful interests their useful idiot come November.
Also, see my previous post reg. how Trump's actions or lack thereof probably cost at least 40,000 odd American deaths. He's killed almost as many Americans in a month as died in the Vietnam War (not counting all indirect deaths due to more routine shit like his health care policy and increased air pollution).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
- mr friendly guy
- The Doctor
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Lets not forget the British government finding the PRC a convenient scapegoat as well. You know, the government that thought it was a good idea to expose 80% of the population to the virus.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Data from USS Theodore Roosevelt
https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/cov ... 7179340500
Doing some ballpark comparisons to the NYC data, if we look at the age 18-44 patients which would be the closest match to the population of the aircraft carrier, the hospitalization rate is about 10x higher for NYC, death rates for those with no confirmed co-morbidities would be roughly the same, keeping in mind that the data from the Roosevelt is pretty noisy since there's only 1 death so far.
https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/cov ... 7179340500
I did a bit more digging and found that out of the 660 infected sailors, 6 of them are hospitalized, 1 is in intensive care, and 1 died. Interesting part is that a)most of the cases are asymptotic, and b) of the positive tests, almost 90% of them initially tested negative but later became positive during the 14 day quarantine period. No wonder this virus is a complete bitch to test for and contain.COVID-19: Most sailors on US carrier with coronavirus are asymptomatic
660 people have tested positive for the novel coronavirus aboard the ship of 5,000
Washington: Tests on the crew of the USS Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier, which was struck by an outbreak of COVID-19, found that two-thirds of sailors who tested positive were asymptomatic, a top military official said Friday.
Nearly the entire crew was tested after the coronavirus outbreak forced the nuclear-powered carrier to dock in Guam. One crew member has died.
The outbreak on the Roosevelt has allowed the Pentagon to document the impact of the coronavirus on a large military population, Joint Chiefs of Staff Vice Chairman General John Hyten told reporters.
"We haven't really tested a whole population and we learn things from the Roosevelt about asymptomatic versus symptomatic," he said.
As of Friday morning, 94 per cent of Roosevelt crew had been tested for COVID-19, with 660 positive cases and 3,920 negative.
"It's only 5,000 people, but it is 5,000 people of a certain demographic" that is younger and healthier than the general population, Hyten said.
Studies so far show asymptomatic patients to be between 20 and 50 per cent of confirmed cases, according to Hyten, who also serves on the White House coronavirus task force.
"You look at our number. It's almost 60, 70 per cent asymptomatic," he said.
Additionally, just over 10 per cent of the positive cases had initially come back as negative in late March.
"What we learned is that those negative to positives always transitioned in the 14-day period" of quarantine recommended by health officials worldwide.
"A 14-day quarantine in individual or very small groups, followed by a test, will give us high confidence that we have a clean crew," he said.
The Pentagon, which has stopped all movement of troops around the world, will test almost all of its forces as soon as possible to help decide how to return to normal operations.
Doing some ballpark comparisons to the NYC data, if we look at the age 18-44 patients which would be the closest match to the population of the aircraft carrier, the hospitalization rate is about 10x higher for NYC, death rates for those with no confirmed co-morbidities would be roughly the same, keeping in mind that the data from the Roosevelt is pretty noisy since there's only 1 death so far.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me.
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
- Coop D'etat
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
aerius wrote: ↑2020-04-17 06:52pm First antibody test on a representative sample of the population is in.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 20062463v1
About 3% of the population sample (after adjusting for sampling demographics) tested positive for antibodies as of early April when they did the testing. Assuming the sampling is good, this would imply that there's at least 50 times more infected people in the county than have showed up in confirmed case counts.COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California
Eran Bendavid, Bianca Mulaney, Neeraj Sood, Soleil Shah, Emilia Ling, Rebecca Bromley-Dulfano, Cara Lai, Zoe Weissberg, Rodrigo Saavedra, James Tedrow, Dona Tversky, Andrew Bogan, Thomas Kupiec, Daniel Eichner, Ribhav Gupta, John Ioannidis, Jay Bhattacharya
Abstract
Background Addressing COVID-19 is a pressing health and social concern. To date, many epidemic projections and policies addressing COVID-19 have been designed without seroprevalence data to inform epidemic parameters. We measured the seroprevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in Santa Clara County. Methods On 4/3-4/4, 2020, we tested county residents for antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 using a lateral flow immunoassay. Participants were recruited using Facebook ads targeting a representative sample of the county by demographic and geographic characteristics. We report the prevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in a sample of 3,330 people, adjusting for zip code, sex, and race/ethnicity. We also adjust for test performance characteristics using 3 different estimates: (i) the test manufacturer's data, (ii) a sample of 37 positive and 30 negative controls tested at Stanford, and (iii) a combination of both. Results The unadjusted prevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in Santa Clara County was 1.5% (exact binomial 95CI 1.11-1.97%), and the population-weighted prevalence was 2.81% (95CI 2.24-3.37%). Under the three scenarios for test performance characteristics, the population prevalence of COVID-19 in Santa Clara ranged from 2.49% (95CI 1.80-3.17%) to 4.16% (2.58-5.70%). These prevalence estimates represent a range between 48,000 and 81,000 people infected in Santa Clara County by early April, 50-85-fold more than the number of confirmed cases. Conclusions The population prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in Santa Clara County implies that the infection is much more widespread than indicated by the number of confirmed cases. Population prevalence estimates can now be used to calibrate epidemic and mortality projections.
If we use that as a baseline for the US as a whole, we can estimate how long the lockdowns need to last before we have herd immunity given the generation time which is about 5 days and R0. Problem is we don't know what the actual R0 is since we have all these positive cases which haven't showed up in the numbers until this study.
I wouldn't hang your hat on that just yet. The key problem with the study you're citing, which the authors rightly acknowledge themselves is the accuracy of the test its self. If the test produces a small but notable amount of false positives, which is typical of new and not well tested antibody assays, then this big population of symptom-less spreader disappears as a statistical artifact.
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Also looking at the data from Ontario where I live
https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-r ... -04-17.pdf
About all I can say is Doug Ford you fucking moron. 20% of the positives and 45% of the deaths were from long term care facilities, which we finally started locking down this week almost a month after everything else. I say started, because they finally banned nursing home staff from working jobs at multiple locations and spreading the shit everywhere, but they haven't quarantined the staff or restricted their movements to keep them from spreading the virus into the outside population.
We're doing so much shit wrong. The school cancellations, lockdowns, and social distancing was said to be for flattening the curve and saving the old people. But did it save granny in the nursing home? No. Because we left all the disease vectors to them wide open. Doing something that would actually save those old folks was the last thing we did, almost a month after we started the shutdowns.
https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-r ... -04-17.pdf
About all I can say is Doug Ford you fucking moron. 20% of the positives and 45% of the deaths were from long term care facilities, which we finally started locking down this week almost a month after everything else. I say started, because they finally banned nursing home staff from working jobs at multiple locations and spreading the shit everywhere, but they haven't quarantined the staff or restricted their movements to keep them from spreading the virus into the outside population.
We're doing so much shit wrong. The school cancellations, lockdowns, and social distancing was said to be for flattening the curve and saving the old people. But did it save granny in the nursing home? No. Because we left all the disease vectors to them wide open. Doing something that would actually save those old folks was the last thing we did, almost a month after we started the shutdowns.
That's why we need more of these tests. We can't fight the disease and have an effective public policy if we don't know how the hell it works, where we're at, and where it's possibly headed.Coop D'etat wrote: ↑2020-04-18 01:00amI wouldn't hang your hat on that just yet. The key problem with the study you're citing, which the authors rightly acknowledge themselves is the accuracy of the test its self. If the test produces a small but notable amount of false positives, which is typical of new and not well tested antibody assays, then this big population of symptom-less spreader disappears as a statistical artifact.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me.
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
- The Romulan Republic
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Trump got pecker-slapped by state governors after he tried to claim absolute power to reopen the country, and even McConnell basically told him to fuck off when he floated adjourning Congress, so he's retaliated by backing incitement of armed rebellion against the governors of Michigan, Minnesota, and Virginia over COVID-19 restrictions.
He's also taken to citing the Civil War's death toll in press conferences. I guess he's saying "Better open up the country, even if it kills a bunch of people, because if you don't I'll start a civil war that will kill even more"?
Fucking psychopath.
He's also taken to citing the Civil War's death toll in press conferences. I guess he's saying "Better open up the country, even if it kills a bunch of people, because if you don't I'll start a civil war that will kill even more"?
Fucking psychopath.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
They need someone to blame for the lack of PPE that they could have ordered months ago but dithered over. Now they need the stuff to dump of private industry they own so they can make a shit-ton of money selling it to the people who are dying because they lack it.mr friendly guy wrote: ↑2020-04-17 11:54pm So after slamming China for poor quality products when it turns out Western countries purchased either the wrong product (antibody kits instead of PCR kits, masks for civilian rather than medical use) and/or from non Chinese government approved vendors, they now have the gall to complain about tightening export quotas to maintain quality control patriotic" American say?
Trump and his circle don't give a fuck if the PPE they're buying for the country is good or not - their inner circle will have the best and the literally do not care about anyone else, just how much money they can extract.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
- Broomstick
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Notably, all Democrat governors.The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2020-04-18 02:08am Trump got pecker-slapped by state governors after he tried to claim absolute power to reopen the country, and even McConnell basically told him to fuck off when he floated adjourning Congress, so he's retaliated by backing incitement of armed rebellion against the governors of Michigan, Minnesota, and Virginia over COVID-19 restrictions.
If he can't seize power on his own he's trying to destroy "democratic strongholds" so come November the voters will skew Republican.
He doesn't seem to understand that by encouraging his base - which by and large are older than the average American - to gather in mobs he's making it more likely they'll catch the virus, and we know that if they do there will be a die-off among them. So there will be fewer of his own very special rabid voters come fall.
His base are like a dog chasing a car that catches one and then doesn't know what to do with it. Even if these mobs DID oust a sitting governor they wouldn't have a clue what to do next. And once the first sitting governor falls to a red-hatted MAGA mob there could very well be a sea-change in the upper levels of power. Or maybe not - not sure just how hopeless this situation is.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
- The Romulan Republic
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
If his mob actually tries to remove a governor by force, then that governor will deploy state police and National Guard units. At that point, either we fight a civil war, or, more likely, Trump folds, throws his supporters under the bus and disavows them, and then tries to spin it as the Democrats being the aggressors and crushing peaceful dissent. I don't think enough of the military is ready to back him in a civil war he blatantly started for him to carry it off- yet.Broomstick wrote: ↑2020-04-18 06:17amNotably, all Democrat governors.The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2020-04-18 02:08am Trump got pecker-slapped by state governors after he tried to claim absolute power to reopen the country, and even McConnell basically told him to fuck off when he floated adjourning Congress, so he's retaliated by backing incitement of armed rebellion against the governors of Michigan, Minnesota, and Virginia over COVID-19 restrictions.
If he can't seize power on his own he's trying to destroy "democratic strongholds" so come November the voters will skew Republican.
He doesn't seem to understand that by encouraging his base - which by and large are older than the average American - to gather in mobs he's making it more likely they'll catch the virus, and we know that if they do there will be a die-off among them. So there will be fewer of his own very special rabid voters come fall.
His base are like a dog chasing a car that catches one and then doesn't know what to do with it. Even if these mobs DID oust a sitting governor they wouldn't have a clue what to do next. And once the first sitting governor falls to a red-hatted MAGA mob there could very well be a sea-change in the upper levels of power. Or maybe not - not sure just how hopeless this situation is.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Well at the very least, it seems that the rank and file of the navy are pretty annoyed with Trump, mostly because of his involvement in the firing of the Navy captain.The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2020-04-18 06:29am If his mob actually tries to remove a governor by force, then that governor will deploy state police and National Guard units. At that point, either we fight a civil war, or, more likely, Trump folds, throws his supporters under the bus and disavows them, and then tries to spin it as the Democrats being the aggressors and crushing peaceful dissent. I don't think enough of the military is ready to back him in a civil war he blatantly started for him to carry it off- yet.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Yeah, as awful as that was, a part of me was glad his regime did something that stupid, because he hasn't purged the military yet the way he has the DOJ, and anything that drives a wedge between him and the military will make it harder for him to hold power by force if he tries it.ray245 wrote: ↑2020-04-18 07:09amWell at the very least, it seems that the rank and file of the navy are pretty annoyed with Trump, mostly because of his involvement in the firing of the Navy captain.The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2020-04-18 06:29am If his mob actually tries to remove a governor by force, then that governor will deploy state police and National Guard units. At that point, either we fight a civil war, or, more likely, Trump folds, throws his supporters under the bus and disavows them, and then tries to spin it as the Democrats being the aggressors and crushing peaceful dissent. I don't think enough of the military is ready to back him in a civil war he blatantly started for him to carry it off- yet.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Somehow I always knew he'd end up causing the sort of constitutional crisis that gets resolved when the military start taking sides.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon
I Have A Blog
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon
I Have A Blog
- The Romulan Republic
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Interesting video in which a lawyer breaks down what would Constitutionally happen in the event that Trump managed to cancel the election, either by force or by persuading states to postpone the vote:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yQLbNekBU1A
Answer: President Patrick Leahy.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yQLbNekBU1A
Answer: President Patrick Leahy.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Meanwhile in England...
I found this unsourced on another forum, but I believe it's from the Times. If it's true... Well, part of me feels a bit better, because it suggests that the general public has more sense than the government right now.
But then I remember what the general public is like, and suddenly I'm worried again.
I found this unsourced on another forum, but I believe it's from the Times. If it's true... Well, part of me feels a bit better, because it suggests that the general public has more sense than the government right now.
But then I remember what the general public is like, and suddenly I'm worried again.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon
I Have A Blog
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
US/Canada border closures extended by 30 days. Thank God.
https://thestar.com/news/canada/2020/04 ... eaths.html
https://thestar.com/news/canada/2020/04 ... eaths.html
The latest novel coronavirus news from Canada and around the world Saturday (this file will be updated throughout the day). Web links to longer stories if available:
11:25 a.m.: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says the U.S. and Canada have agreed to keep the border closed to nonessential travel for another 30 days.
Trudeau says it will keep people on both sides of the border safe amid the pandemic. U.S. President Donald Trump said Wednesday the U.S.-Canada border will be among the first borders to open. Nearly 200,000 people normally cross the border daily.
In his opening remarks the Prime Minister announced two planes filled with N95 masks and coveralls arrived in Canada on Friday.
Trudeau thanked Toronto Stamp Inc., a manufacturer of signs, rubber stamps and badges, is supplying millions of face shields over the next two months.
Trudeau also announced the allocation of $306M to support Indigenous businesses. The sum includes interest free loans and non-refundable amounts of money that are set to be administered by the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association.
11:20 a.m.: Ontario’s regional health units are reporting another 39 COVID-19 deaths and 622 new cases in the last 24 hours, according to the Star’s latest count.
As of 11 a.m. Saturday, the Star had counted a total of 10,934 confirmed or probable COVID-19 cases, including 557 fatal.
The case total is up 6.0 per cent from the same time Friday morning, around the same rate of daily growth the province has seen over the last seven days. If sustained, that growth rate would double the province’s case total about every 12 days.
Still, Ontario’s COVID-19 epidemic has slowed from earlier: Last week, cases averaged 8.6 per cent daily growth and the week before that averaged 15.6 per cent growth.
Ontario’s case total have more than quadrupled since March 31; deaths have risen even faster, up nearly 800 per cent from 61 at the end of last month.
The Star’s count is based on the public tallies and statements of Ontario’s 34 regional health units, the local bodies that collect and publish this data often before reporting to the province through its central reporting system. As such, the Star’s count is more current than the data the province publishes each morning.
Earlier Friday, the province reported that testing labs had processed nearly 9,500 samples in the largest single-day total since Ontario quietly changed how it reports the data.
The province says 828 patients are now hospitalized with COVID-19, including 250 in an intensive care unit, of whom 197 are on a ventilator — totals that remain significantly less severe than Ontario’s worst-case projections. A total of 4,875 people have recovered after testing positive for the virus, according to the provincial data.
The province says its data is accurate to 4 p.m. the previous day. The province also cautions its latest count of deaths — 478 — may be incomplete or out of date due to delays in the reporting system, saying that in the event of a discrepancy, “data reported by (the health units) should be considered the most up to date.”
The Star’s count, includes some patients reported as “probable” COVID-19 cases, meaning they have symptoms and contacts or travel history that indicate they very likely have the disease, but have not yet received a positive lab test.
11:10 a.m.: Toronto Mayor John Tory told the Star Friday he felt it was time to convene the senior leaders of the city’s emergency response to the COVID-19 to start work on how to reopen the city when public health officials say it is safe.
The mayor said he didn’t expect detailed plans to be drafted. He hoped for a framework for how to allow, in stages, Toronto businesses and residents to start to get back to normal.
They’ll start to work on questions such as, when restaurants can reopen dining rooms — should the city start by allowing them to fill only part of their capacity.
Public health officials will be at the meeting to ensure the plans, as they unfold, follow the best advice on how to avoid further infections or a “second wave” of the virus.
“Saturday is to deal with ‘How do you develop the staged plan?’ And how do you marry it with the requirements of public health?’”
10:17 a.m.: The Regional Municipality of York announced access to the York Regional Forest will reopen to the public Saturday, with COVID-19 guidelines for all users.
“With milder weather coming, York Region recognizes the need for people to get outside and connect with nature and the much-needed health benefits our public tracts provides,” York Region said in a statement.
The region is enforcing stricter guidelines for the public accessing the York Regional Forest and its 21 public forest tracts. Including physical distancing of at least two meters between forest users, leashes on dogs in all areas, and no littering.
10 a.m.: Members of a Manitoba First Nation will each be handed a mask, gloves and sanitizer as they head to the ballot box on Saturday.
“We’ve never gone through this before,” said Shawn Kent, a councillor for Brokenhead Ojibway Nation. “It’s unprecedented and it’s a different way of doing things that we are going to find out if it’s viable or not.”
First Nations across the country are deciding whether to hold elections during the COVID-19 pandemic. Brokenhead, about 65 kilometres northeast of Winnipeg, chose earlier this week to go ahead with its election for chief and four council members.
It was a difficult decision, said Chief Deborah Smith. Officials were receiving constant and changing information about the novel coronavirus and steps had already been made to hold the election.
Mail-in ballots were sent out weeks ago to about 1,200 community members who live off reserve. For the 700 members who live on the reserve, however, Smith said there was a lot of anxiety.
“There were people that felt that because of the health factors that we should delay. But there was also a voice from the community that wanted to proceed ... so that they could exercise their democratic rights.”
Marc Miller, minister for Indigenous Services Canada, urged First Nations across the country to delay elections for six months.
But First Nations in many regions voiced concern that if they chose to delay it would have a serious consequence — a gap in leadership during a health crisis.
The Indian Act says that a chief and council cannot extend their terms. First Nations communities were concerned that without an election, an interim government or third party would be put in place to lead the community.
Word spread throughout Indigenous communities that this meant they would be forced to hold elections, said Arlen Dumas, grand chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs.
The group representing 62 First Nations in Manitoba reached out to the minister last month about the concerns. Dumas said eight First Nations elections were already scheduled in the next three months for Manitoba.
Dumas said that last week the minister let communities know that a temporary regulatory option had been introduced to allow First Nations leaders to continue in their roles for up to six months, with a potential extension for another six months.
“During this pandemic, the health and well-being of Indigenous communities is our primary focus,” Miller said in a statement Thursday.
Dumas said it’s the right step but it should have come much sooner.
The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs is going to be recommending all communities delay elections, he said.
“It’s quite a scary thing to think about what could possibly happen with having our elections.”
But, ultimately, it will be up to local leadership.
Smith said Brokenhead leaders considered what a delay on short notice would mean and consulted with members. Some wanted to delay, but many thought it was important to go ahead.
Saturday’s vote will have extensive precautions to mitigate the risk of spreading COVID-19, she added.
Each person who votes at the recreation centre will get a special personal protective equipment kit, which includes a mask, gloves, sanitizer and a pen. Only one person will be allowed in at a time and there will be Plexiglas between the voter and electoral officer.
Extra security has been hired to ensure people waiting to vote stay far enough apart. Voters driving into the community will be screened for signs of illness and their recent travel history and will be required to leave immediately after.
“The way things have been done in the past is considerably different than the way we are going to have to do it now,” Kent said.
7:30 a.m.: Spain has reached 20,000 deaths for the coronavirus pandemic and total infections increased to more than 190,000.
Spain’s health authorities reported 565 deaths in the last 24 hours. Only the United States and Italy have more deaths.
New infections rose by nearly 4,500. More than 74,000 people in Spain have recovered.
This week, health authorities said there were discrepancies in the statistics of virus deaths and infections reported by regional administrations. The central government has ordered regions to give more precise data and use the same parameters.
As the outbreak’s spread slows, pressure on hospitals has relaxed. Authorities have closed one part of a huge field hospital with thousands of beds set up by the military in a convention centre in Madrid.
But strict confinement rules are expected to be extended beyond April 26.
7 a.m.: Germany, Canada, France, the U.K., South Korea and eight other nations issued a joint statement noting the “critical role” of the World Health Organization in tackling the virus outbreak.
The so-called Ministerial Coordination Group on COVID-19 said a “strong and co-ordinated global health response” is needed. The U.S. is not a member of the group. President Donald Trump has criticized the WHO and ordered a halt to contributions to the organization.
The 13 nations also agreed that emergency measures to tackle the virus “must be targeted, proportionate, transparent and temporary.” They must not “create unnecessary barriers to trade or disruption to global supply chains” and must comply with WTO rules.
4:56 a.m.: Nigerian President Muhammadu Buhari’s chief of staff died on Friday after contracting the coronavirus in Germany. Abba Kyari, whose age wasn’t disclosed, was regarded as one of the most powerful politicians in the West African country and a strong supporter of state intervention in the economy.
4:51 a.m.: Russia recorded its largest daily increase in coronavirus infections, with the new cases rising by almost 5,000 in a single day.
New infections jumped by 4,785 to 36,793, the official Russian coronavirus information centre reported on its website. Forty people died in the past day, including 21 in Moscow, bringing the number of fatalities to 313. The pace of new cases increased 17.6% after slowing to less than 15% in the previous two days.
4:47 a.m.: A group of thirteen countries including Britain, Brazil, Italy and Germany is calling for global co-operation to lessen the economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic.
In a joint statement the group said it is committed to “work with all countries to co-ordinate on public health, travel, trade, economic and financial measures in order to minimize disruptions and recover stronger.”
The countries emphasized the need to maintain “air, land and marine transportation links” to ensure the continued flow of goods, including medical equipment and aid, and the return home of travellers.
They want key transport hubs around the world to remain open and for airlines to maintain major routes.
The group — also including Canada, France, Indonesia, Mexico, Morocco, Peru, South Korea, Singapore and Turkey — stressed “the importance and critical role of the scientific community in providing guidance to governments” and suggested pooling scientific resources.
4 a.m.: The federal government is deploying celebrities in new ads meant to amplify the plea of public health experts for Canadians to stay home to curb the spread of the deadly COVID-19 virus.
The ads, one in French, one in English, are to begin broadcasting nationally tonight during the “One World: Together at Home” concert.
The English advertisement features astronaut Chris Hadfield and women’s hockey star Hayley Wickenheiser, alongside Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada’s chief public health officer.
The trio exhorts Canadians to stay home and save lives.
Hadfield says Canadians have always overcome challenges by looking out for each other and doing their part.
Wickenheiser, noting that even people without symptoms can spread the disease, reminds Canadians that their actions can make the difference between life and death.
The French ad conveys similar messages, using astronaut David Saint-Jacques and Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, the Canadian football star who helped the NFL’s Kansas City Chiefs win the Super Bowl in February. They appear alongside Dr. Mona Nemer, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s chief science adviser.
The exhortations to stay home come as federal political parties are to continue negotiating today about when and how Parliament should reconvene in the middle of the pandemic.
2:37 a.m.: A German cruise ship has left Western Australia state after a three-week stay during which three people on board died of COVID-19.
The Artania began its journey from Fremantle back to Europe, keeping to its scheduled early afternoon departure time Saturday.
A total of 79 crew and passengers from the Artania tested positive for coronavirus in Western Australia. They included a 42-year-old crewman from the Philippines who died in a Perth hospital on Thursday, raising the state’s toll to seven.
The ship’s captain, Morten Hansen, said the crew member had been with the company since 2006 and most recently served as a motorman, describing his death as “heartbreaking.”
Two other people from the Artania died last week, one a passenger in his 70s, and the other a 69-year-old crewman.
Some of the crew who are expected to return home on a charter flight were removed from the ship on Saturday and transferred to a Perth hotel. The ship is expected to make stops in Indonesia and the Philippines en route to Germany.
The ship had been scheduled to depart earlier this month before being granted an additional 14-day quarantine period by the Australian Border Force. Some 219 of the state’s 541 cases have been among people linked to cruise ships.
1:28 a.m.: Indonesia has extended stricter social-distancing rules to millions of people living on the main island of Java, and in West Sumatra, as the world’s fourth-most populous nation strives to stem a spike in coronavirus cases.
Large-scale social restrictions will be put in place across five regions in West Java that collectively house almost 9 million people, Health Minister Terawan Agus Putranto said in a statement issued by the Indonesian cabinet secretariat. A similar order has been given for Tegal, a city in Central Java, and for the province of West Sumatra. Putranto noted a significant increase in the spread of COVID-19 cases in these areas.
There were 407 new infections in Indonesia on Friday, the biggest daily increase since the Southeast Asian country reported its first case, taking total confirmed cases close to 6,000. The government has continuously expanded a partial lockdown to more cities outside the capital Jakarta, the epicentre of the outbreak. The virus is expected to infect 95,000 people in May and to rise to 106,000 in July, according to the government estimates.
The five regions in West Java include Cimahi City, Bandung Regency, West Bandung Regency, Sumedang Regency and Bandung City — the nation’s fourth-most populous city.
10:10 p.m.: Millions of workers in Indonesia are planning to break social distancing rules to stage rallies across the country on April 30 in protest over an overhaul of labor-market rules, according to the Jakarta Post newspaper.
Labor unions say changes to the labour rules, contained in a so-called omnibus bill currently being considered by lawmakers, legitimize the exploitation of workers. President Joko Widodo had put the bill forward as an essential reform even before the virus hit as he sought to appease those who see the labour law and generous severance pay conditions as a major barrier to investment.
“The option is either to die from the coronavirus for joining a rally or die of starvation from having nothing to eat,” the paper cited Inter-Factory Labourers Federation chairwoman Jumisih as saying.
7:43 p.m.: President Donald Trump said there’s enough coronavirus testing capacity to put in place his plan to allow a phased reopening of the economy, even though some state officials and business leaders have raised alarms about shortages.
“We’ve already built sufficient testing capacity nationwide so states can begin their reopenings,” the president said Friday at the White House.
Business leaders and lawmakers told Trump in phone calls this week that the U.S. must increase its testing capacity before attempting to reopen the economy. Trump also tweeted on Friday that “the States have to step up their TESTING!”
In many parts of the country, health officials say adequate levels of testing still haven’t been reached. California has been especially hamstrung, reporting more than 7,000 backlogged tests on Friday despite massive pushes to process more tests.
6:28 p.m.: Federal Minister of Transport Marc Garneau announced that as of April 20, all air passengers will be required to wear a “non-medical mask or face covering” during air travel. Travellers on flights departing or arriving at Canadian airport will be required to demonstrate they have the appropriate mask prior to boarding, otherwise they won’t be able to fly.
According to the ministry, passengers travelling by bus are “strongly encouraged” to wear masks “as much as possible,” and may be asked by the operator to cover their mouths and noses when social-distancing isn’t possible.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Seems legit. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ay-sourcesZaune wrote: ↑2020-04-18 11:28am Meanwhile in England...
I found this unsourced on another forum, but I believe it's from the Times. If it's true... Well, part of me feels a bit better, because it suggests that the general public has more sense than the government right now.
But then I remember what the general public is like, and suddenly I'm worried again.
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
- mr friendly guy
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
https://thehill.com/changing-america/re ... day-due-to
So much for Crackpot's claim that Americans are smart enough to distinguish between China the powerful country and Asian Americans. Is anyone surprised? I mean some Americans confused Sikhs with Muslims after 9/11.Attacks on Asian Americans skyrocket to 100 per day during coronavirus pandemic
Representative Judy Chu said that reports of bigotry and hate crimes against Asian Americans have surged during the coronavirus crisis.
By
Alexandra Kelley
Al Drago/Getty Images
Racism against Asian Americans has surged as the coronavirus sweeps the U.S., with reports of hate crimes averaging approximately 100 per day, according to Rep. Judy Chu (D-Calif.).
Speaking live on MSNBC on Tuesday, Chu discussed the increase in assaults on Asians in the U.S. over misinformation regarding the coronavirus. She confirmed “at least 1,000 hate crimes incidents being reported against Asian Americans” after the pandemic arrived stateside.
MSNBC played footage of a man violently demanding an Asian man on the New York subway move away from him. Chu condemned the footage and added that, across the nation, similar attacks have occurred, citing a man being assaulted in New York for wearing a face mask, the stabbing of three Chinese-Americans at a Sam’s Club in Texas, an Asian man in San Francisco attacked while collecting cans, and a 16-year-old Asian American sent to the hospital after school bullies accused him of carrying the coronavirus.
“These are very, very alarming and are not helped by President Trump who calls this the ‘Chinese virus,’ ” Chu said.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Why lab accident would be that implausible? Given this virus often cause no symptoms it seems possible that someone in the lab could have gotten infected in some minor accident and later spread it around without even knowing it. I would say more likely scenario is the animal market because of unsanitary conditions and all sorts of animals crammed together, but if that Wuhan lab really researched animal coronaviruses then it is another potential source that should be investigated.mr friendly guy wrote: ↑2020-04-17 12:28pmMurdoch media have been pushing this conspiracy theory for a while now. They even went as far as writing about how Dean Koontz (the author) predicted a viral outbreak from Wuhan. A US politician also pushed this particular conspiracy theory. And then they have to gall to complain the Chinese are pushing conspiracy theories when people in China return the favour.
- Highlord Laan
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronaviru ... story.html
More idiots out in protest. This time in Maryland.
In the immortal words of captain James T Kirk, Let them die.
More idiots out in protest. This time in Maryland.
In the immortal words of captain James T Kirk, Let them die.
Last edited by Highlord Laan on 2020-04-18 05:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
Never underestimate the ingenuity and cruelty of the Irish.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days
Bioweapon is incredibly implausible.
That is was inadvertently breed in a lab could be the case, it does explain certain features like how well adapted it was to spread in humans from the start, which is what you'd expect if it got passed through human cell cultures a few times and evolved towards human protein expression. However, the functional mutations to the viruses genes that distinguish it from its most closely related known bat coronaviruses involve changes in how it avoids immune response which would be the case for a virus that evolved in cell culture. So the notion it escaped from that lab has some merit as a theory but I don't think the balance of available evidence points in its way.
Government officials and arms length but clearly government influenced publications on both sides of the Pacific have put out theories that its an engineered virus, which is obviously wrong and risible, and should be treated with contempt. Lab escape is a possibility to be looked into according to what is publicly known but should be shouted out without better reason.
That is was inadvertently breed in a lab could be the case, it does explain certain features like how well adapted it was to spread in humans from the start, which is what you'd expect if it got passed through human cell cultures a few times and evolved towards human protein expression. However, the functional mutations to the viruses genes that distinguish it from its most closely related known bat coronaviruses involve changes in how it avoids immune response which would be the case for a virus that evolved in cell culture. So the notion it escaped from that lab has some merit as a theory but I don't think the balance of available evidence points in its way.
Government officials and arms length but clearly government influenced publications on both sides of the Pacific have put out theories that its an engineered virus, which is obviously wrong and risible, and should be treated with contempt. Lab escape is a possibility to be looked into according to what is publicly known but should be shouted out without better reason.