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White Haven wrote:There's also the consideration that even at the relatively low tech-level in this STGOD, a planetary-scale devastation of population centers and military infrastructure of a heavily-inhabitted world is going to involve a rather incredible amount of energy, possibly with some nasty long-term climate effects and other secondary issues. When one is dealing with mass planetary bombardment, 'genocide' becomes a somewhat fuzzy concept.

You probably won't be killing everyone but making a planet useless wouldn't take that much effort. We can easily generate enough energy with today's tech to make Earth relatively useless with a few bad decisions.

And that amounts to not killing everyone right away.

Why would civilians be a problem, surely a wise man would flood their atmosphere with nerve gas, right? RIGHT?

Guys, just because you're not going to great lengths to murder everyone you're still killing huge numbers of essentially innocent people. That usually isn't the way you make friends.

Ok, this probe bullshit has to stop. If you had PMed me for specs on the probe at any time I would have told you that it's seriously a tiny ass communications probe designed to simply relay messages. It was never a credible suicide threat, it's smaller than a fucking fighter jet for godsake. I just got more than a few hits called against me, and I don't like were this is going, because it's unbelievable and moronic.

InnocentBystander wrote:Guys, just because you're not going to great lengths to murder everyone you're still killing huge numbers of essentially innocent people. That usually isn't the way you make friends.

innocent people / xeno scum / religious fanatics who hate our freedom / heathens who refuse to worship the one true god / nasty predators / soulless machines / horrible parasites / tasty humans who could have been used as food stocks / implacable threats to all life

It's a matter of perspective.

Starglider wrote:

InnocentBystander wrote:Guys, just because you're not going to great lengths to murder everyone you're still killing huge numbers of essentially innocent people. That usually isn't the way you make friends.

innocent people / xeno scum / religious fanatics who hate our freedom / heathens who refuse to worship the one true god / nasty predators / soulless machines / horrible parasites / tasty humans who could have been used as food stocks / implacable threats to all life

It's a matter of perspective.

Yes, everyone else's perspective...

The following fleet is currently forming up in Nephilim space. Given that it involves something like 500 ships from eight nations, anyone with any sort of sensor coverage of Nephilim space will see a mass of warp trails, nearby comms interception assets will be picking up a lot of chatter from it and spies in any of the contributing nations will probably hear about it.
EDIT: Added Brimafel ships.
LPD is of course 'Landing Platform Dropship'.

Adrian Laguna wrote:I don't see how it would be genocide. Unless you want to accuse both the United States and the Soviet Union of planning genocide against each other during the Cold War. So long as you only target things of military importance (basically everything but subsistence farming), it's not genocide. Oh, and you need to stop the bombardment if they surrender.

Hmm, let's see. Destroying each other's entire nation, killing millions upon millions of civilians in the process, and potentially destroying all life on the planet in the process.

You're right, that's not genocide, it's XENOCIDE.

Seriously though, are you responding to the right post? I'm specifically talking about targeting major cities! These are civilian population centers! Of COURSE targeting them with capital ship weapons is going to cause massive civilian casualities! Of COURSE it's going to be seen by most civilized nations as an act of genocide when you wipe a planet clean of life. If you wanted to talk about some strawman you pulled from thin air, feel free, but don't quote my posts that are clearly talking about something different as though you were responding in some substantial way.

More simply, let me put it to you this way: There are two ways to impose rule over a planet. Glass the thing and move in your own people and materials, or invade and try to take the people and the materials mostly intact. Option A is genocidal. Option B is not. Option A is easier, but gives you little to work with. Option B is hard but has a high potential gain. There are shades of gray here, but if youhover too close to Option A, expect people to get on your case about it.

If you want to pretend that it's okay to nuke a city because there are a dozen or so insurgent cells in it, feel free, but don't pretend anyone else has to buy into your version of reality.

By my admittedly rough calculations that would appear to be roughly 2.14 Metric fucktons of ships Starglider. I think nations in past STGODs are wondering who's about to be boned.

consequences wrote:By my admittedly rough calculations that would appear to be roughly 2.14 Metric fucktons of ships Starglider. I think nations in past STGODs are wondering who's about to be boned.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

Noble Ire's contribution should bring it up to THREE metric fucktons.

Starglider wrote:Noble Ire's contribution should bring it up to THREE metric fucktons.

There is no fleet assembling in Nephilim Space. There are certainly not over 250 warships there. They are not causing the massive sensor readings you are detecting. All is peaceful.

- Ministry of Misinformation

See now, this is a good application of balls of steel, people. Go to it!

Starglider wrote:

consequences wrote:By my admittedly rough calculations that would appear to be roughly 2.14 Metric fucktons of ships Starglider. I think nations in past STGODs are wondering who's about to be boned.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

Noble Ire's contribution should bring it up to THREE metric fucktons.

3.61 metric fucktons, actually.

In addition to the force update Starglider is probably about to post, if a power that reasonably would know of the presence and location of the FEA, and has an intel point score of 15 or above, has a observational unit somewhere near the edge of my borders, let me know by PM. There's something happening there that you'd probably pick up on.

What about massive mind control/conversion of citizens to non standard forms A la Invasion of the cybermen?

Redleader34 wrote:What about massive mind control/conversion of citizens to non standard forms A la Invasion of the cybermen?

Nope, Alyrium tried this shit with a dragon in stgod4 and it was knocked down (as I recall).

Redleader34 wrote:What about massive mind control/conversion of citizens to non standard forms A la Invasion of the cybermen?

Speaking as both a mod and the player of the race most able to actually enslave a world's will, my ruling on the spot is that it is flavour, nothing more.

The Wanderers could doubtlessly bend entire continents to their will, but those with the mental fortitude to break free of the psionic enslavement will exist, grab weapons, and fight back, much as most won't take up arms if there's tanks down mainstreet, no matter what Red Dawn told you.

SirNitram wrote:

Redleader34 wrote:What about massive mind control/conversion of citizens to non standard forms A la Invasion of the cybermen?

Speaking as both a mod and the player of the race most able to actually enslave a world's will, my ruling on the spot is that it is flavour, nothing more.

The Wanderers could doubtlessly bend entire continents to their will, but those with the mental fortitude to break free of the psionic enslavement will exist, grab weapons, and fight back, much as most won't take up arms if there's tanks down mainstreet, no matter what Red Dawn told you.

Errr, isn't there a precedent set by Alyrium's mind control dragon that such 'lame' attempts at conquest (*wave hands* you love me now!) result in HUGE trouble?

InnocentBystander wrote:

SirNitram wrote:

Redleader34 wrote:What about massive mind control/conversion of citizens to non standard forms A la Invasion of the cybermen?

Speaking as both a mod and the player of the race most able to actually enslave a world's will, my ruling on the spot is that it is flavour, nothing more.

The Wanderers could doubtlessly bend entire continents to their will, but those with the mental fortitude to break free of the psionic enslavement will exist, grab weapons, and fight back, much as most won't take up arms if there's tanks down mainstreet, no matter what Red Dawn told you.

Errr, isn't there a precedent set by Alyrium's mind control dragon that such 'lame' attempts at conquest (*wave hands* you love me now!) result in HUGE trouble?

Did you read my post? Try again with your brain on. I specifically said it's flavour; IE, it's no more or less effective than normal garrisoning and occupation.

SirNitram wrote:

InnocentBystander wrote:

SirNitram wrote: Speaking as both a mod and the player of the race most able to actually enslave a world's will, my ruling on the spot is that it is flavour, nothing more.

The Wanderers could doubtlessly bend entire continents to their will, but those with the mental fortitude to break free of the psionic enslavement will exist, grab weapons, and fight back, much as most won't take up arms if there's tanks down mainstreet, no matter what Red Dawn told you.

Errr, isn't there a precedent set by Alyrium's mind control dragon that such 'lame' attempts at conquest (*wave hands* you love me now!) result in HUGE trouble?

Did you read my post? Try again with your brain on. I specifically said it's flavour; IE, it's no more or less effective than normal garrisoning and occupation.

Sorry, it sounded easier to me. I suppose if everyone has to go through the fun of landing large numbers of troops on a planet then it doesn't make a difference.

<groans>
Mental note, Migranes are NOT fun... OK.. What did I miss.

Acidburns wrote:

Starglider wrote:Noble Ire's contribution should bring it up to THREE metric fucktons.

There is no fleet assembling in Nephilim Space. There are certainly not over 250 warships there. They are not causing the massive sensor readings you are detecting. All is peaceful.

- Ministry of Misinformation

Oh yeah thats right, what is up with the Friendly Nephs giving almost 1/3 of the 'Fuckton' of ships being put forward? I'm going to have to pull teeth to get my guys to give just that 400points worth.

I am still going to voice that I am very pissed about you shooting my shit down without even sending me a PM telling me about it. It wouldn't have been able to defend itself, but you still called the shots hits, called the tractor beaming a hit, assumed no response from me what-so-ever, and didn't allow my usual chain of communications and response deal what-so-ever with what was happening. It's not like my race is going to have an information interpretation speed problem. I should have had a response ready before you could organize and gotten to post something in the coalition thread. There was a ton of shit I would have wanted to sqeeze in between your posts, but it has gotten pushed aside because you posted without consulting with me a single fucking time. I have had to PM all of you just to find out what the hell happened with my own fucking probe, I never even got a chance to determine how much I should know about the event, and how I would respond because you fucking cut me off.

While I'm not going to berate for calling shots against a fucking probe... Keep the players involved with your little schemes in the loop, you lot. When you use their gear as kinetic weapons to upset the Grand Harmony of the spheres, at least let them post in between your frenzies.

It seems to me that there is some haze on nation location: some are hidden from the players, while others are probably more obvious. Should we, perhaps, state "canon" general knowledge on our nations' locations?

Wanderers are generally unknown. Some nations might know more than others, some might actually be in regular contact with them, but generally they've been recluses for the past few decades.