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Mmmm....moddish crowds, can we get a final ruling on hypermissiles and interdictors? I know Marcao had been speculating on some things, but the last I heard was a 'Will confer' and then nothing.

InnocentBystander wrote:Simple, suffrage. You've got "commoners" voting people into power all over the place in that model. Read the very first point from the original document.

Gorn Loyalists wrote:General suffrage clears the way for the tyranny of the masses, and the honorable Gorn nation will not be sidled with the Human ideal of "egalitariansim," when it is clear to one and all that not all individuals are equal.

Senator Wellton wrote:Council of Citizens;
To be elected by all non-Elder Gorn over 25 cycles of age

Senator Wellton wrote:a Speaker to be elected by the general populace

Sorry for not being online much lately people. It's just been too nice out lately to waste the good weather and my free time in front of a computer.

Anyway, yes suffrage is the sticking point. The "Loyalists" don't want the general populace to have any say, with all power still being concentrated in the hands of the "Elders" (Term I invented to descirbe the Gorn nobility).

The Provisional Leadership and its supporters want all power in the hands of elected officials and the Elders having no additional influence or power then the average citizen.

Thats why Welltons proposal calls for two Councils to balance out each other. The PLC hates the idea of the Council of Elders just as much as the Loyalists hate the idea of the Council of Citizens.

A good compromise is one that neither side is completely happy with but that both can live with, and I think Welltons constitutional proposal fits that bill.

Edit: I'll make up a IC reply from Wellton to Reverend Mother Ramallo and we can go from there.

The Loyalists are willing to bend significantly on the issue of voting, extending voting privelage to those who can either own a certain ammount of property or can achieve citizenship through a specific, non-arbitrary set of criteria related to civil and military service.

They know they can't maintain the noble's monopoly on power, but they don't want the hoi polloi voting. Ergo, a system where voting is restricted- but hardly to just the nobility.

The nobility can live with a Council of Citizens, just not one where even the most selfish, impoverished idiot can vote for it's members.

Thirdfain wrote: The nobility can live with a Council of Citizens, just not one where even the most selfish, impoverished idiot can vote for it's members.

As far as the PLC is concernced that is not a compromise. They would view that as simply a creation of a second set of "mid level" nobility, that would eventually be subsumed by the older "high" nobility. The Council of Citizens must be a council of all citizens.

Kyle wrote:

Thirdfain wrote: The nobility can live with a Council of Citizens, just not one where even the most selfish, impoverished idiot can vote for it's members.

As far as the PLC is concernced that is not a compromise. They would view that as simply a creation of a second set of "mid level" nobility, that would eventually be subsumed by the older "high" nobility. The Council of Citizens must be a council of all citizens.

Ah, but the honorable UTR representative would do to examine the similar system in place in the Three Suns Commonwealth, which has enjoyed considerable success and has created a voting strat from all walks of life- from frontier colonists to cityworld patricians.

Kyle wrote:Thats why Welltons proposal calls for two Councils to balance out each other. The PLC hates the idea of the Council of Elders just as much as the Loyalists hate the idea of the Council of Citizens.

A good compromise is one that neither side is completely happy with but that both can live with, and I think Welltons constitutional proposal fits that bill.

Edit: I'll make up a IC reply from Wellton to Reverend Mother Ramallo and we can go from there.

You are confused. The Loyalists are willing to live with the two groups controling. The senator's proposal is simply unfair to the Loyalists, they have no weight in the executive, and partial control of the legislative. It clearly puts the nobility into the minority.

Nephtys wrote:This looks like a common question, and I searched through the thread for an answer. But is there any set building rules for new construction? Aside from 'not too much, or you get the foot of MOD?'

Hmmmmm. It seems everyone missed this. There's a build chart posted in this thread, that I was just searching to find (which is how I noticed your post). That really needs to be edited into the OP or something so it can be found.

Right, here's the build scale again. Its way back on page 22 of the thread.
These numbers are per in-game year.

So wait, how long is an In-Game year? just a normal year? Does your power have to be at least an In-Game year old to build?

I don't want any whining about 'Bioships'. Damn things operate in Culture Infraspace, I don't think we can really apply that many modern scientific rules.

Besides, several powers of the original STGOD had bioships. So none of the realism arguments. I know them all. I also am not writing hard sci-fi here.

Hmm...any chance of getting an updated map to include the recent flurry of new powers? Also, once that's taken care of, the stickied thread needs to be updated with the new map.

If I could get a rough list of the positions of the new powers and their approximate sizes, I'll include them the next chance I get.

crayz9000: In a recent PM Vanas told me he was in the perseus arm.

Vanas wrote:I'm on the Western Edge of the Perseus Arm.

Thought I'd save you the trouble Vanas.

He can of course confirm it if you'd prefer.

Nepthys's Elysian Union is between me and the Azegart.

I'm East South-East, under Rpblksrpsk and near Krytos.

Err, Nitram... I don't think an in-game year has passed, don't you think it's a little soon to be deploying new vessels? I think that we've gone through what, 3 months in game? Maybe a bit more..?

InnocentBystander wrote:Err, Nitram... I don't think an in-game year has passed, don't you think it's a little soon to be deploying new vessels? I think that we've gone through what, 3 months in game? Maybe a bit more..?

Less time has advanced in-game than RL? Well, that would explain the lack of anything interesting happening. Can a mod finally answer this question?

InnocentBystander wrote:Err, Nitram... I don't think an in-game year has passed, don't you think it's a little soon to be deploying new vessels? I think that we've gone through what, 3 months in game? Maybe a bit more..?

I've been keeping track of time in my posts. About 4 months have passed in-game, but I think it would not be unfair to advance the clock slightly?

Thirdfain wrote:I've been keeping track of time in my posts. About 4 months have passed in-game, but I think it would not be unfair to advance the clock slightly?

Provided that the Gorn question is resolved, the clock could easily be advanced a few months--or more.

For interested parties, I'll host an aim powwow and we'll argue over the Gorn thing in person and get it all solved at once.

As it takes substantially less time to commission lighter craft and such, and I've got a small arc planned with one of the new Guardians, I'm sprinking a few of the lighter new-builds through my forces here and there.

wait now that its based on In-Game year which is sped up due to the gorn conflict does this mean any power started BEFORE the conflict can build. because as I've read some of the MUCH younger powers (like weeks old Real Time), like Nephyts and Vanas group, already building new groups.

Honestly all I want is the go ahead to build up my forces. Also is the build level SET for this time or can anyone pick their own as long as its within reason? like I could pick Minimal, normal or buildup; but on the other hand a currently at war or near conflict power could pick Wartime? or is build totally unrestricted.

Oh well I guess I'll go ahead and put in a place holder build up.

I'd like to arrange an AIM meeting amongst the interested parties to discuss the Gorn situation.

Kyle, InnocentBystander, myself, any signers of the bill, and perhaps a mod to sit down in a chatroom and iron this all out, would be excellent. What times would everyone be available?

Thirdfain wrote:I'd like to arrange an AIM meeting amongst the interested parties to discuss the Gorn situation.

Kyle, InnocentBystander, myself, any signers of the bill, and perhaps a mod to sit down in a chatroom and iron this all out, would be excellent. What times would everyone be available?

Got orchestra rehearsal in 45 minutes. In three hours, perhaps?

Anytime after 11pm EST.