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This is a painful stinker. No more rah-rah characterizations of people you've met, please, lest my eyes roll completely out of my head.

erik_t wrote:This is a painful stinker. No more rah-rah characterizations of people you've met, please, lest my eyes roll completely out of my head.

I disagree, I think its an excellently written character based piece. The General has certainly taken charge in a big way. Third Army needed to be taken charge of and in a big hurry, the General has done just that.

"Sergeant Tram? Go to the Sergeant's Mess, talk to the President, find out what is really going on here. Corporal Vung? Do the same for the Corporal's Mess, find out what troop morale and standards are. Rest of you come with me."

Now that is always the way to find out what is going on in any army with a professional NCO corps. The surnames could be changed and it could easily be the British, American, or any Commonwealth Army.

"Find out who those guards are and break the entire guard detail to privates. Then assign them to mine clearance. We're at war, nobody should be getting into this base without being challenged. Make that clear to their replacements."

Now that reminds me of a certain air force general. I wonder if it is really true that he chewed out a guard who took a shot at him and missed?

"I was goofing off Ma'am."

Major General Asanee looked at him carefully. "I'm promoting you to Sergeant. You’re the only person I've met in this building so far who knows what he's been doing."

Brilliant, loved that touch.

You know, I think I rather like the idea of drinking and never getting drunk.

erik_t wrote:This is a painful stinker. No more rah-rah characterizations of people you've met, please, lest my eyes roll completely out of my head.

Would you rather he write about things he doesn't know and use characters that are less true-to-life? Read it or don't, whining is not an option.

Hawkwings wrote:And I really hope that robotic dolly makes a reappearance... Or are you waiting for us to all forget about it?

You know, it's just possible that it's a red herring.

Yay, yay yay! More Pantheocide is here!




“an AN/GSY-1(V)4 Mod 5 Portal Generator.” Anyone care to tell me what that acronym
stands for? Abyssal Netherworld Gate Syncronizational... something that starts with “Y”
can I buy a vowel?

You know that’s the first time I’ve ever seen someone use the word “laager” (just took
the time to go look it up unable to believe that it was a real word at first...)

"I was goofing off Ma'am."

Major General Asanee looked at him carefully. "I'm promoting you to Sergeant. You’re
the only person I've met in this building so far who knows what he's been doing."

Is it just me or did Patton say something similar at one point?




And now to go back to waiting and hoping that the next chapter will be even better (and even longer this one seemed to be much shorter than the last one...)

Jamesfirecat wrote:“an AN/GSY-1(V)4 Mod 5 Portal Generator.” Anyone care to tell me what that acronym
stands for? Abyssal Netherworld Gate Syncronizational... something that starts with “Y”
can I buy a vowel?

Got it entirely wrong. The AN means its in the JTEDS designation system. Information can be found: http://www.designation-systems.net/usmi ... onics.html . Basically, G means it's a ground based system (with multiple possible installations, allowing two or more of: fixed, transportable, man-portable, vehicle mounted or mobile. S means it's a special piece of equipment.Y means it's a piece of surveillance equipment. Of the GSY series of equipment, it's the first one type classified.

You know that’s the first time I’ve ever seen someone use the word “laager” (just took
the time to go look it up unable to believe that it was a real word at first...)

Its an Afrikanner word, the British Army also picked it up, though IIRC with a slightly different spelling. I believe its now quite commonly used in military circles.

erik_t wrote:This is a painful stinker. No more rah-rah characterizations of people you've met, please, lest my eyes roll completely out of my head.

Fuck that, Major General Asanee is my new hero. I prefer "rah-rah characterizations" over flat characters any day, and Asanee is awesome.

Yes, I am a serious bitch.

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsi ... msday.html

Incidentally, I found this article about the book of Revelations. At the end, it mentions that Patmos was known for having hallucinogenic mushrooms. Apparently, Michael wouldn't have had to go far at all to find them on Patmos. It also supports what I've heard about it being an anti-Roman tract, saying the Seven Heads represent the Emperors and that 666 represented the name of the Emperor Nero.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/heal ... 682610.htm

This is talking about a study done on the brain while under the influence of hallucinogenic mushrooms.

erik_t wrote:This is a painful stinker. No more rah-rah characterizations of people you've met, please, lest my eyes roll completely out of my head.

Granted no one is above constructive criticism and proof reading, but that's the key; you need to make criticism constructive, not just take a shot across the bow. Is it the *style* of writing that bothers you?

erik_t wrote:This is a painful stinker. No more rah-rah characterizations of people you've met, please, lest my eyes roll completely out of my head.

How is it a "rah-rah characterization"? It's light-hearted schadenfreude humor.

P.S. Remember a previous chapter, when the good General was being subtly chastised by Petraeus and missing points?

I'm preferential to flat characterizations, actually. I wouldn't be surprised if Maj. Gen. Asanee is, however subconsciously, smarting from Petraeus showing himself to be on another level (albeit by necessity).

As for kitten and her boyfriend, I hope they've prepared for the possibility of mission briefings and other meetings that her boyfriend is NOT security-cleared for...

erik_t wrote:This is a painful stinker. No more rah-rah characterizations of people you've met, please, lest my eyes roll completely out of my head.

Yeah, firing everyone you come across as soon as you arrive to take command is not the mark of a good officer. It's the mark of someone who is a peckerhead and actively taking actions that will guarantee their replacements will likely start making shit up in order to stay in their billets.

I didn't interpret it that way because I didn't know that Stuart had ever met this individual, so I wasn't looking for it. Is it possible that this is a case of confirmation bias?

Lonestar wrote:Yeah, firing everyone you come across as soon as you arrive to take command is not the mark of a good officer. It's the mark of someone who is a peckerhead and actively taking actions that will guarantee their replacements will likely start making shit up in order to stay in their billets.

Depends on the circumstances. In this case, where a situation has been thoroughly screwed up by the previous team and the replacement commander brings in their own team who have an established working relationship, prompt dismissals work wonders. In such replacement exercises, its necessary - essential - to get the initial removal done fast, take charge fast and then get everybody back to work before they have time to mull over what's happened. Note also that the person who gave a responsible answer - "I don't know but I'll find out" got public approval. It's when people are fired at random (without consideration of whether they were doing a good or bad job) and without replacements being drawn from a team with established relationships and mutual understanding that things start to go badly pear-shaped.

In this case, the "reorganization" that took place is based on fact although it was at a lower level and involved smaller force levels. It worked and transformed the situation in the area in question. Long story there. It's also based on Ridgeway's take-over of 8th Army in Korea after the Chinese intrusion. He did exactly what was described here and again it was astoundingly successful, transforming the army froma beaten rabble into a superb fighting force. The bit about the sausage with 100,000? in it is taken directly from the official U.S. Army history of the war in Korea as is the dismantling of the people responsible.
Spoiler By the way, incidents in question - Guard at the gate - Curtis LeMay (he didn't court martial the guard for shooting and missing but for not shooting at a car that had failed to stop at the checkpoint)

Promoting the sleeping corporal - George S Patton

The phraseology of the dismissals "You're relieved - report to ...... for reassignment" is straight SAC. Mostly used by Tommy Power.

Darth Wong wrote:I didn't interpret it that way because I didn't know that Stuart had ever met this individual, so I wasn't looking for it. Is it possible that this is a case of confirmation bias?

I would say so; the actual incident is (as explained above) based on Matthew Ridgeway's relief of the command structure of Eighth Army in Korea during 1950. It's embellished with incidents attributed to Curtis LeMay, Tommy Power and George Patton but the main structure is straight out of 1950 Korea (just replaced jeeps with Humvees and changed the names). I have a friend who was (until this year) a Major-General in the Thai Army (we first met in 1976 and have been close friends ever since) but she is only marginally related to this particular part of the story. She did once pull something a bit like this but it was on a battalion level and the circumstances were rather different (corruption rather than a war being screwed up)

I grant that I was not very diplomatic in my phrasing. Regardless, even if this has happened in reality, it is jarring from a fictional point of view. I think the story would be well-served by only a few folks being canned/reassigned. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction from time to time, but that does not imply that fiction should blindly follow these crazy truths. It just doesn't work from a suspension-of-disbelief perspective, IMHO. Especially the identical phrasing... frankly it screams FAPFAPFAP even if it has indeed happened.

Those who suggest that criticism is not welcome on this board can, of course, eat their own asses as far as I'm concerned.

erik_t wrote:I grant that I was not very diplomatic in my phrasing. Regardless, even if this has happened in reality, it is jarring from a fictional point of view. I think the story would be well-served by only a few folks being canned/reassigned. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction from time to time, but that does not imply that fiction should follow these crazy truths. It just doesn't work from a suspension-of-disbelief perspective, IMHO. Especially the identical phrasing... frankly it screams FAPFAPFAP even if it has indeed happened.

Those who suggest that criticism is not welcome on this board can, of course, eat their own asses as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, but were you looking for it? I found the chapter to be greatly amusing, and it didn't set off my suspension of disbelief alarm at all. These are extraordinary times, and you have a national invasion, and you have an army group which appears to be so far up its own ass that it would just sit there and wait to see what happens, instead of taking any kind of action.

erik_t wrote:I grant that I was not very diplomatic in my phrasing. Regardless, even if this has happened in reality, it is jarring from a fictional point of view. I think the story would be well-served by only a few folks being canned/reassigned. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction from time to time, but that does not imply that fiction should blindly follow these crazy truths. It just doesn't work from a suspension-of-disbelief perspective, IMHO. Especially the identical phrasing... frankly it screams FAPFAPFAP even if it has indeed happened.

Didn't break SOD for me. In fact, I think the opposite would have been the case. A competent officer faced with obvious and blatant incompetence should be shitcanning the useless and utilizing the useful.

Of course, it takes something very extreme to break SOD for me, so your mileage may vary.

It just doesn't work from a suspension-of-disbelief perspective, IMHO. Especially the identical phrasing... frankly it screams FAPFAPFAP even if it has indeed happened.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nrealistic

erik_t wrote:I grant that I was not very diplomatic in my phrasing. Regardless, even if this has happened in reality, it is jarring from a fictional point of view. I think the story would be well-served by only a few folks being canned/reassigned. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction from time to time, but that does not imply that fiction should blindly follow these crazy truths. It just doesn't work from a suspension-of-disbelief perspective, IMHO. Especially the identical phrasing... frankly it screams FAPFAPFAP even if it has indeed happened.

Those who suggest that criticism is not welcome on this board can, of course, eat their own asses as far as I'm concerned.

I do take your point about about balancing truth vs. good story telling. An example is Schindler's List, where the atrocities depicted in the movie were, in fact, toned down. Besides time consideration, you don't want to overwhelm the audience with grim reality, when the purpose is to also entertain.

That said, I'm one of those who did enjoy part 17 (no suspension-of-disbelief issues), and had no idea it was based a on true event.

We are also reading this story contemporaneously as each chapter is published every few days, with time to contemplate and comment as we go. Once the story is complete, a second reading straight through might revel continuity or story flow issues that are hard to spot now. That's why there are editors... ...although the art of editing at publishing houses seems to have gone downhill since emailed text files replaced printed manuscripts. Editors just don't seem to actually proofread any more. That's where we the noisy audience come in.

Stuart wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:I didn't interpret it that way because I didn't know that Stuart had ever met this individual, so I wasn't looking for it. Is it possible that this is a case of confirmation bias?

I would say so; the actual incident is (as explained above) based on Matthew Ridgeway's relief of the command structure of Eighth Army in Korea during 1950. It's embellished with incidents attributed to Curtis LeMay, Tommy Power and George Patton but the main structure is straight out of 1950 Korea (just replaced jeeps with Humvees and changed the names). I have a friend who was (until this year) a Major-General in the Thai Army (we first met in 1976 and have been close friends ever since) but she is only marginally related to this particular part of the story. She did once pull something a bit like this but it was on a battalion level and the circumstances were rather different (corruption rather than a war being screwed up)

I thought it an excellent chapter, being at least vaguely aware of Ridgeway's takeover ( bear in mind that he was a paratrooper ) and the other incidents involving Power, Patton and Saint Curtis.

She did what was needed and did so with efficiency and dispatch. Only the incompetent were fired, as they should have been. Every army needs latrine diggers. Maybe they can manage that task.

I must say Stuart that I can imagine Suphi doing exactly what Asanee did. BTW, she's finally retired? Oh the stories she could tell.....

Oh the stories she could tell.....

But then she'd have to kill you, mate.

Seriously it is interesting that the Thai army does have female generals. I couldn't say off the top of my head who is the senior female Brit is (other than the Queen), since they can't get access to combat commands I wouldn't expect her to be much above brigadier, or Major General.

erik_t wrote: It just doesn't work from a suspension-of-disbelief perspective, IMHO. Especially the identical phrasing... frankly it screams FAPFAPFAP even if it has indeed happened.

Dude, it's the military. They invented the stock phrase.

BTW, joined the board just for this fic.

It didn't break SoD for me either. Of course I know very little about military command structures, but it seemed obvious to me that he was simply firing people who weren't doing their jobs. The one firing I might have issue with - from the perspective of ethics, not disbelief - is that first secretary. Yes, she hadn't prepared, but it's entirely possible the she'd tried and hadn't been allowed to prepare, and he didn't even try checking that.

Going off on a tangent, though. Stuart, I've been enjoying the Science(tm) scenes - just enough science, not too much technobabble - but I'd vaguely like someone to discuss the possibility of sensitive-less portals. How close are they to that now?

Well, let's face it. I'm just a sucker for aperture science. :3