What went wrong with the new trilogy?

CaptHawkeye · Post by **CaptHawkeye** » 2007-04-10 06:49pm

Galvatron wrote:I seriously think she dragged down everyone around her. Hayden Christensen wasn't really THAT bad, but all of his scenes with her were just awful.

That said, I'd hit it (her, not him).

Color me shallow, but to me, her appearence leaves something to be desired.

I decided to test out the "Dialouge of social ineptitude" argument on one of my friends to justify Anakin's and Padme's seemingly weak acting. I told him about Anakin's life in the monastic Jedi order, to which he claimed "How come other Jedi talk just fine?" (Bear in mind, this was the same person who claimed that 20 zombies could rip off a tank hatch.)

Kind of interesting I found that, claiming was he that the other Jedi are all Casanova.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2007-04-10 06:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:I'd have to agree there. The problem with her was snobbery, IMO. She fancies herself one of those award-winning "serious" actors, and she felt that the entire idea of a Star Wars was beneath her. Hence, she didn't really even try. Not exactly out of character for a self-conscious teen at that point in her life, but you'd hope she'd be more professional.

I think Harrison Ford was stricken by the same bug come ROTJ. Of course, he'd already paid his Hollywood dues by then after having just starred in three absurdly great movies in a row (TESB, Raiders and Blade Runner).

I guess she figured coming off another wooden performance in Mars Attacks really earned her some cred.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-04-10 07:25pm

Galvatron wrote:I think Harrison Ford was stricken by the same bug come ROTJ. Of course, he'd already paid his Hollywood dues by then after having just starred in three absurdly great movies in a row (TESB, Raiders and Blade Runner).

I guess she figured coming off another wooden performance in Mars Attacks really earned her some cred.

I'd give Ford the benefit of the doubt, if what he's said since is true and he really didn't think that his character should have even been there. Sure, he showed up for the paycheck, but he's said he thought Solo should have died in ESB, and if thats true, I'd give him a little more credit than Portman for actually thinking about his character in relation to the story.

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2007-04-13 03:38pm

Galvatron wrote:
Tiriol wrote:On the other hand, the OT characters (with the notable exception of Princess Leia Organa) were raised in less than formal manner:
Yet Tarkin and his cronies didn't sound laughably formal. Nor did the old-school rebels like Dodonna and Willard.

Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin and his subordinates were men of military traditions and so too were General Jan Dodonna and his friend, Commander Willard. Military often uses formal, but also direct and sometimes even blunt way of speaking so long as at least some resemblance of respect is maintained. And we should also take into account that these were men of considerable charisma: the fact that Tarkin was most definetely a sociopath does not mean that he couldn't be suave and charismatic (which would also mean that he wouldn't sound ridiculous when speaking formally); Dodonna was also charismatic and proved this by becoming a leader of the prison-ship Lusankya's prisoners despite his advanced age and frailty.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-04-13 03:48pm

CaptHawkeye wrote:What to you were Natalie's specific moments of ultra "Please god make it stop" acting? Just wondering. I can sense things I didn't like about her either but can't seem to put my finger on it.

One scene where her less-than-adequate acting was glaringly awful was when Anakin fleshed out his darker side by admitting that he killed women and children tusken raiders. Hayden performed very well and Natalie just stood there with a fucking stupid look on her face. It just looked like she was day dreaming and ignoring everything Anakin was saying.

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2007-04-13 04:21pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
CaptHawkeye wrote:What to you were Natalie's specific moments of ultra "Please god make it stop" acting? Just wondering. I can sense things I didn't like about her either but can't seem to put my finger on it.
One scene where her less-than-adequate acting was glaringly awful was when Anakin fleshed out his darker side by admitting that he killed women and children tusken raiders. Hayden performed very well and Natalie just stood there with a fucking stupid look on her face. It just looked like she was day dreaming and ignoring everything Anakin was saying.

Indeed. I didn't like Queen Amidala's character that much, but at least in TPM and in AoTC Natalie Portman could at least portray her as supposedly strong-willed, confident and intelligent young woman; however, it seemed as she had lost all enthusiasm she might have had for the role when RotS was being filmed (perhaps a leading role in V for Vendetta had a distractive value for her).

Aaron2 · Post by **Aaron2** » 2007-04-17 02:02pm

My main beef with eps 1-3 (other than the usual midicholorian-type crap) is that there was too much stuff. In the OT, you had the X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Star Destroyers and the Falcon. These ships were shown in all three movies and became iconic symbols; almost characters themselves. What kid didn't want an X-Wing?

But in the new trilogy, there were so many vehicles, droids and ships that you need a giant reference book just to keep track of them all. Padme has three different shiny silver spaceships. Anikin and Obi-Wan fly three different types of fighters. Even the Clone Troopers varied from movie to movie. Sure, it made sense given the time lapse between the movies but it doesn't help people identify with the setting as a coherent, consistent universe.

Aaron

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-04-17 07:24pm

Aaron2 wrote:Even the Clone Troopers varied from movie to movie. Sure, it made sense given the time lapse between the movies but it doesn't help people identify with the setting as a coherent, consistent universe.

Wait, you mean a culture of cloners who have no experience with human physiology, would take the advice of the troops using armour that was made for the human, to make the armour more confortable to wear? Wow, that's stupid, everyone knows you finish a war with the same equipment you started it with, you don't upgrade and outfit your troops with better weapons until after the war.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-04-17 07:45pm

Aaron2 wrote:My main beef with eps 1-3 (other than the usual midicholorian-type crap) is that there was too much stuff. In the OT, you had the X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Star Destroyers and the Falcon. These ships were shown in all three movies and became iconic symbols; almost characters themselves. What kid didn't want an X-Wing? But in the new trilogy, there were so many vehicles, droids and ships that you need a giant reference book just to keep track of them all.

I don't think the sheer amount of stuff was too bad. In the OT we saw all of these fairly prominently:
Rebel fighters: X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, B-Wing, air speeders
Rebel capships: Various flavours of MonCal cruiser, Nebulon B.
Imperial fighers: Tie-In, Tie-Advanced, Tie-bomber
Imperial caphips: ISD, Executor, death stars
Imperial ground-attack: AT-AT, AT-ST
Other: Millenium Falcon, Blockade Runner, Rebel Transports, Lambda class shuttle, Sand Crawler, various speeders and speeder bikes.

But the focus was on a few key iconic vehicles, (MF, X-Wing, ISD, AT-AT) and almost all of these got a great introduction (e.g. the first look at the Executor, or the AT-ATs) and/or played an integral role in key scenes (e.g. Lambda class shuttle, AT-ST).

The problem with the new trilogy was that many of the vehicles seemed like gratuitous eye-candy or mechandising opportunities, shoved in there for a brief scene and then never heard of again. There didn't seem to be the same solid role and integration with the rest of the setting that the OT vehicles had. I actually had trouble suspending disbelief at some points: it was too easy to imagine Lucas saying 'draw me some cool shit' to his artists, then turning the sketches that caught his fancy over to the CG crew. It's a symptom of the general eye-candy-led attitude instead of 'plot first then look for opportunities for some eye candy'.

I don't consider this a serious problem; the prequel trilogy vehicles are still mostly sensible and in-universe plausible (if a little uninspired). We got to see large scale ground battles between well-equipped forces for the first time and you'd expect to see a greater range of vehicles there than in minor clashes against poorly equipped rebels. Still, the design for the prequel trilogy was a bit less inspired and more muddled than the OT, IMHO.