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Lancer wrote:Heh, I just tried my hand at SM Graveyard and Library as a lvl 33 Prot/Ret Pally tank. The group composition was three pallys, a rogue, and a mage. One of the pallys and the rogue were 33, while the third pally and mage were both 29. Some of them had some bad luck with AFK's and DC's, so it got to the point where we were doing 4-pulls of lvl 33-34 elites in Library, and yet we didn't notice that we had lost two players.

Also, Omen works perfectly again! I was getting clean threat reads from party members who weren't running it, and I was able to hold aggro most of the time. When I couldn't, it was either because the group was focus firing on a target other than the one I was slicing and dicing, or the other pally was stealing my off-mobs

Two of the people dropped though, so I ended up switching to my Warlock and running the other guys through the Library in maybe 5 minutes. What's funny is that both times we ran GY, and the speedrun through Library, all the blues that dropped from the final bosses were mage gear that she couldn't wear yet.

Real Paladins CC with Repentance.

On a side note, I pretty much quit WoW a week after BC came out and only started playing again in the last two months, but I've heard that a lot of the old, classic instances took a tremendous nerf. When I was leveling my first character, my Rogue, about two and a half years ago, pulling four packs with two of the party members AFK or otherwise D/C'd was a great way to end up back at Faol's Rest.

yeah the old instances took quite a nerf, too bad to ruin any fun in doing them with good group, but they're not as unforgiving anymore.

Instances seem almost not worth doing anymore because of the leveling increase from levels 1-60. Or lowered experience requirements to level, or however you want to phrase it.

Old world leveling dungeons have been nerfed, outdoor elite areas are no longer elite... eh, it is what it is. You used to have to group up to do quests in Jintha'alor in the Hinterlands since all the mobs were elite - you'd need a real party, i.e. tank, heals, DPS, etc. Now? No more.

I almost kinda wish they'd refine the pre-BC levelling zones a bit. The Blood Elf starting area is great and I hear good thinks about the squiddie, er, Draenei starting zone, too.

I wonder how hard it'd be to retune the old pre-BC raids and make the rewards relevant nowadays.

I don't consider that a bad thing. A lot of casual players would no doubt never run instances if they were all really unforgiving. One of the reason I'm a protection paladin is that I really hate getting killed, and few classes know how to take damage more gracefully than a paladin. Seriously, I believe I was level 60 when I accidentally aggroed a Fel Reaver that somehow was able to sneak up on me (I honestly have no clue how) when my entire bag of tricks was on cooldown. Still took the bastard three hits to kill me (for those that don't know, Fel Reavers are the giant mechs of WoW. Couple hundred feet tall, and able to do a one-shot kill of pretty much any character that isn't specced for tanking, plus several that are specced for tanking).

Granted, the second hit brought my hit points down to low double digits, but I hung on long enough that he had to swing a third time.

I wouldn't call the pre-BC old world instances 'unforgiving', they simply required a modicum of coordination and some preplanning. I was doing Heroic Blood Furnace last night* for daily Badges, and I realized halfway through the run, that I was actually feeling challenged by the content. The last time I felt challenged like that was years ago when I was leveling my Paladin and going through SM, Uldaman and Zul'Farrak. Any competent group was perfectly capable of finishing any of those three instances so long as they communicated and played well. There might be a few snafus along the way if a sheep breaks or a sap pops or a runner grabs a pat add, but they were manageable as long as you stayed on point. In their current state, these instances are a joke. The mobs got nerfed, the mob counts got nerfed. There's no challenge anymore. I was solo-farming Uldaman for mithril the other day and I realized that the stealthed trogg spam that hits when you go down the stairs in the Chamber of Prehistoria had its numbers cut down by half.

I realize Blizzard is trying to make things easier to level, but that shouldn't mean slapping instances with the nerf bat just so you can get through in an hour instead of two. Besides, the extra mobs would be worth plenty of XP themselves. The current model is just a bunch of abbreviated dungeons that don't suck you into the game like they used to. What's worse, is what with this E-Z-Mode of instancing, new players don't get used to how nasty a gloves-off dungeon can be. They figure they can just off-tank one mob themselves, stressing healer mana and spreading DPS, or some silly shit like that. Instead of forcing players to learn instancing and group skills as early as possible, you've pretty much just got a whole new crop of players that leveled to 60 solo, near-solo, or in instance groups that just wiped out the entire dungeon with no effort at all. Since I've started playing again I've come across a disturbing amount of idiots that have no real idea how to make the most of their class in a group situation. Sure, there were morons like this before, but there's a lot more now.

The vanilla BC instances are decent and whutnot, but they lack a certain level of danger. There's no "Oh shit, this group is going to wipe us if we fuck up." feeling. The only times I've felt that have been in Heroics, which is what normal dungeons should feel like. Heroic is a challenge to a decently geared and coordinated group, just like the original old-world dungeons.

Raids are, of course, a different matter entirely.

Well, Blizzard went and did it. I'm a sucker for these little mini games and quests and stuff. I don't know why, but this is the type of thing that just pulls me in. I am helpless to resists it's grip. When WotLK comes out, I will hand over my soul, and I will smile about it.

Yeah, that sounds like something that could easily suck me in even deeper.

Say - do you think the price of the "shave and a haircut" achievement will be two bits?

Darmalus wrote:Well, Blizzard went and did it.

Wow, seriously? That screams of contrived.

...so it's City of Warcraft now. That's not even subtle.

I'm even more surprised that they lowered the level requirement for a mount, much less the cost.

I miss my rogue's ability to not-be-killed. Cheat Death or whatever got seriously nerfed. I used to get punched by Fel Reavers for the fun of it. Now...

Edit: Some of those achievements seem cool. I definitely wouldn't mind getting 'world explorer', though I wonder if they all start from zero, or if your previous accomplishments are rated anywhere.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I miss my rogue's ability to not-be-killed. Cheat Death or whatever got seriously nerfed. I used to get punched by Fel Reavers for the fun of it. Now...

Edit: Some of those achievements seem cool. I definitely wouldn't mind getting 'world explorer', though I wonder if they all start from zero, or if your previous accomplishments are rated anywhere.

Cheat Death is such a luxury. =/ My Rogue is pure Combat Daggers spec for the maximum possible single-target raid DPS. I gotta make due with Vanish, man.

Maxentius wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I miss my rogue's ability to not-be-killed. Cheat Death or whatever got seriously nerfed. I used to get punched by Fel Reavers for the fun of it. Now...

Edit: Some of those achievements seem cool. I definitely wouldn't mind getting 'world explorer', though I wonder if they all start from zero, or if your previous accomplishments are rated anywhere.

Cheat Death is such a luxury. =/ My Rogue is pure Combat Daggers spec for the maximum possible single-target raid DPS. I gotta make due with Vanish, man.

You should see my sub-spec with hemo. I have a Barman's Shanker and BarleyBrew's Tankard. You ain't lived till you've been ganked by a drunken dwarf wielding a beer mug and a broken wine bottle.

Angus MacBeer, to the rescue!

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Edit: I definitely wouldn't mind getting 'world explorer', though I wonder if they all start from zero, or if your previous accomplishments are rated anywhere.

Yes, achievements your character has done will be backdated.

Blizzard wrote:Feats include old-world player-vs.-player ranks, obtaining rare mounts, special titles, and more. Feats of Strength will be awarded retroactively (that is, they'll be immediately granted to your character if you qualify) since many of them will be impossible to earn in Wrath of the Lich King.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I miss my rogue's ability to not-be-killed. Cheat Death or whatever got seriously nerfed. I used to get punched by Fel Reavers for the fun of it. Now...

Edit: Some of those achievements seem cool. I definitely wouldn't mind getting 'world explorer', though I wonder if they all start from zero, or if your previous accomplishments are rated anywhere.

Cheat Arena was a slap in the face to a community already at siege by that OP'd class. Oh, what's that? You actually have to wear PvP gear to do well in PvP now? Cry me a river Rogues.


<- Warlock for life!

Crown wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I miss my rogue's ability to not-be-killed. Cheat Death or whatever got seriously nerfed. I used to get punched by Fel Reavers for the fun of it. Now...

Edit: Some of those achievements seem cool. I definitely wouldn't mind getting 'world explorer', though I wonder if they all start from zero, or if your previous accomplishments are rated anywhere.

Cheat Arena was a slap in the face to a community already at siege by that OP'd class. Oh, what's that? You actually have to wear PvP gear to do well in PvP now? Cry me a river Rogues.


<- Warlock for life!

Except that Arena is not the entire game. Which brings up a huge problem with balancing. What balances for Arena will nerf instances and battleground quite a bit.

Meh, don't get me wrong, I love the game and have been playing for a couple years now. Hell somewhere on this server is my thread on deciding what toon to make.

That said, end game has expanded so much that it hurts the first 60 some levels. Arena, Mgt, etc... All the 70's running around have gladiator gear for example.

I'm looking forward to the new expansion so I can hear all these prima donna's bitching about the new gear again, just like BE. I had a 60 for like two weeks before BE, so plenty of people I knew threw a tizzy fit when people who were ~50 or so when BE came out got new gear in a week the beat Dreadnaught armor etc...

It's going to happen again. Thousands of kiddies with Gladiator Armor will be undergeared in a few days after the release of Litch King. Bwhahahahhaah!

OT

Jewlcrafting has great cash potential. Every ten or so levels is a blue ring with random enchant upon crafting. Mats are pretty easiy so good money there. JC only sucks at 320+ due to all the blue recipies being random drops in instances.

PS Rogues rule

I know this is waaay off the thread topic but: WoTLK paladin talents came out on wotlkwiki, and dear god retribution is going to kick so much ass.

Seriously, if those changes/talents go through, for the first time in an MMO I'll be completely satisfied with my class.

Ayrix wrote:I know this is waaay off the thread topic but: WoTLK paladin talents came out on wotlkwiki, and dear god retribution is going to kick so much ass.

Seriously, if those changes/talents go through, for the first time in an MMO I'll be completely satisfied with my class.

A lot of the new talents actually look cool for almost every class and spec.

Like a lot of people, I'm looking forward to Death Knight. I'm especially interested to see how viable it is to have a 5-man party of Death Knights. I mean, I'm tinkering around with the talent calculator making something approximating a Death Knight healer. Actually uses an interesting mish-mash of talents to create some rather humorous combos.

For example, Death Coil is a Death Knight spell that damages an enemy or heals a friendly undead target. Lichborne is an Unholy talent that allows a Death Knight to turn undead for 30 seconds. They both require runic power, so that cuts down on self-healing shenanigans, but it still creates an interesting multi-Death Knight dynamic in a party.

And that doesn't even include the Blood tree, which has several nice abilities which heal you based on how much damage you can deal, or if you kill an enemy worth experience or honor. Oh, and also Blood Aura, which makes those abilities also heal your party.

Ayrix wrote:I know this is waaay off the thread topic but: WoTLK paladin talents came out on wotlkwiki, and dear god retribution is going to kick so much ass.

Seriously, if those changes/talents go through, for the first time in an MMO I'll be completely satisfied with my class.

Meh, two out of three servers I've been on are mostly 70 toons anyway so any server I bet would be a bunch of Deathknight's by 70 mains. Not looking forward to that.

Honestly, I expect the whole death knight shenanigans to be like how Alliance Shaman/horde Paladins was. At first theres going to be a metric fuckload of them, but after a few months the people who really like the class will stay, and those who don't will go back to their mains. So I honestly don't think it'll be too bad.

I might get the expansion. I ordered B.C., so I will try out that one too. Just started playing WoW in general, though. Can't find any fun strangers to play with, though. All of my friends are absurdly high level characters, so I end up playing alone much of the time.

If anyone wants to play, sometime, my tag is Wiggumsia and I usually am on Whisperwind. Made a warlock and am trying to learn it.