StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I want a good Navy and a good Air Force with decent Mushroom Marines, but a very very modest Army. Something like what UK has IRL.

How about:

Navy (600 pts)
5x CVN
5x LHD
10x CGN
40x DDG
10x FFG
10x SSN
15x AOE

Air Force (600 pts)
40x 5th gen fighter
420x 4th gen fighter
35x strategic bomber
100x tactical bomber
10x tanker
10x heavy AWACS
11x light AWACS
120x trainer
40x strategic transport
84x tactical transport
40x heavy maritime patrol
4x light maritime patrol

Army (300 pts)
900x 2nd gen MBT
1800x 2nd gen AFV
400x med SP arty
240x heavy ADA
320x medium ADA
320 x light ADA
150x heavy lift helo
450x utility helo
240x attack helo
240x light attack helo
10.000x professional infantry
13.500x marines
9.000x paratroopers
600x moderate specforces

For a grand total of 1500 points; modify at will?

SiegeTank wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I want a good Navy and a good Air Force with decent Mushroom Marines, but a very very modest Army. Something like what UK has IRL.

How about:

-snip-

Shroom asked me to do this for him but I see you've beaten me to it.

Still I'll help him make modifications if he needs them.

Erm... there are limits on the number of 5th Generation fighters. I believe for Shroom, it's 12.

Niiiiice. Though five aircraft carriers? Whatever am I going to do with them?

Maybe I can do some adjustments, yeah. But generally, I like how that list looks. I'm keeping it! Thankees Sieges!

In exchange for reducing my land area to a territory the size of New Jersey I've upped my GDP from the usual $350 billion that a Duchy gets to $425, and increased my population to 24+ million people. Basically I'm cityscape as far as the eye can see.

Coyote, is it okay if I introduce the Garden of a Thousand Temples as one of the must-see Spectacle Sights of San Dorado? The idea is to have basically an Egyptian-themed Central Park with loads of pseudo-Egyptian mini-temples scattered about the park. Your embassy could be located there (if you even want an embassy in San Dorado, that is ).

Modern Khitan
Khitan has come a long way since it's eary days, know only as a source of Pirates, Bandits and the great Barbarian armies over a millennium ago. Long know and referred to in the histories as the "Empire Breaker" both because the various Empires which have attempted to conquer or pacify it soon after began their final decline or from the great Khazar's the Shaman King's of the past leading's vast armies through the paces, buying off the Mountain men with bribes to conquer most of the continent before infighting destroyed them as well.


Modern Khitan is a far different place from those days yet a Khazar might step off his horse bewildered by the lights and sounds of a modern Khitan yet find some sights still familiar. There also still exists a small wandering population of nomadic herders know as the Darkhan's. They still wander the steppes of North Khitan living much as their ancestors did, even if one were to look inside thier Yurt's they might be suprised to find a few modern convinces such as Cell Phones and DVD players powered by small gas generators or lately, small rolling solar panned huts.

Most of the population is however concentrated either at the foot of the mountains, along the coast or near the four great cities of Khitan. Zavkhan the great coastal city. Dangun the coldern Northern city and center of most of Khitan's mining and refining areas. Wuhan the industrial heart of the country, and finally Ryugyŏng the capital of Khitan and it's cultural heart.

More to come later.

SiegeTank wrote:Coyote, is it okay if I introduce the Garden of a Thousand Temples as one of the must-see Spectacle Sights of San Dorado? The idea is to have basically an Egyptian-themed Central Park with loads of pseudo-Egyptian mini-temples scattered about the park. Your embassy could be located there (if you even want an embassy in San Dorado, that is ).

Sounds good. Maybe even a campy theme park would be cool.

My military-phase OOB is now complete & updated with all the squeaky details. Enjoy as your brains turn to spam trying to comprehend the alphabet soup of military acronym-speak.

Coyote wrote:My military-phase OOB is now complete & updated with all the squeaky details. Enjoy as your brains turn to spam trying to comprehend the alphabet soup of military acronym-speak.

I actually had fun making my OOB. I learned a lot of acronyms that I didn't know before.

And it feels good to be able to understand some of that.

The only problem is that now I can't wait to use my new toys.

Coyote wrote:Sounds good. Maybe even a campy theme park would be cool.

Oh, now there's an idea. Yes, a theme park sounds good, with stuff like "the Pharaoh's Revenge" roller looping into and out of a few of the buildings bordering the park. It'd be like the Las Vegas Strip... But more obscene, and actually located inside a big-ass city park. Nice.

SiegeTank wrote:In exchange for reducing my land area to a territory the size of New Jersey I've upped my GDP from the usual $350 billion that a Duchy gets to $425, and increased my population to 24+ million people. Basically I'm cityscape as far as the eye can see.

GDP can not be adjusted upwards.

If it can, then I could claim that I'm reducing my my land area down to the size of Jersey, and doubling my GDP, then once the game starts, go on an insane buying spree. However, you can arbitrarily set your land area and population, bearing in mind that the more population you have, the generally poorer they are, and the lower the population density, the more likely that a bunch of your land is essentially useless (if it were useful, people'd live there).

EDIT: Never mind, I don't think that was particularly well thought-out. I'll be adjusting the GDP.

Modern Khitan
Khitan is a hybrid Socialist system. Mixing Socialism with Capitalism. A both times a wide open system and one riddled with old boy style networks. The highest forms of government are under the firm control of the descendants of those who lead the 1931 Summer Revolution and tossed down the old Imperial Government for corruption and brutality following the 1930 Autum Bread Riots in Wuhan and the slaughter of two dozens students in Ryugyong. The rebellion was lead in chief part by the so called Last Khan, Khan Dayan Singh. There is no socialist party, in fact the Constitution of Khitan makes the formation of political parties illegal with the country. The Government is made up of the General Council, the Assembly and the Courts. There are strong checks placed on some forms of government while others are ignored. For example while the Assembly elects the members of the Supreme Council, any member of the Council can veto an addition to their ranks and the Assembly can not remove any Council member by itself. The Council itself exercises great power within it's jurisdictions. It has the power to make policy, and the large government bodies that keep the government running from day to day are under their direct control. There exists only two ways to remove a member of the Council, the President of the Council can request a vote of no confidence from the Assembly or the Assembly itself can pass a resolution requesting the Supreme Court (Made up of 13 Justices which serve for a single term of twelve years and are appointed by the President and appointed by the Assembly). The General Council otherwise has power of day to day running of the government. They serve for ten year terms unless recalled. Up until now no member of the General Council has served more than twenty years and it is the unwritten term limit for members of the Council. The Assembly by contrast serves five year terms and half the assembly is up for election every election. They can serve no more than two terms in the Assembly. This system has lead to a rather high turn-over rate in Representatives compared to other countries.

Khitan is currently ruled by the General Council, a body of five men lead by President Alexander Singh grandson of the last Khan Dayan Singh. The Last Khan had several children Along with him serve four others, Secretary General Akhmat Toso head of the Khitan Armed forces, Secretary Xu Zhen head of Labor. Zhao Chang Secretary of Finance, and Joseph Singh Secretary of Foreign Affairs. formally Joseph Blackadder a second generation immigrant who married into power some ten years ago and has arisen with speed when he married into the Singh family when he married the only daughter of the current President, Masuimi Singh, before serving one term in the Assembly he was promoted to the General Council two years ago as is well know as a mediator of disputes between the various council-members.

Religion
Close to 60% of the Khitan practice Theravada Buddhism, Also practiced is Christianity specifically around the port city of Zavkhan which contains the most Christian almost 52% Christian compared to the rest of the country 11%. 21% Claim no religious affiliation or are agnostic. 7% still practice Ancestor worship or Shamanic tradition. The remaining 1% is made up of Judaism, Muslims and almost half a percent of Mormons who moved here in the late 1900th century to escape persecution elsewhere.

PeZook wrote:The Leo 1 is, like, a full generation behind, dude!

And I can support the fighter, as long as it's not named the Shroomfighter

I know about the age issues. I figure it's less objectionable for me to have an armaments industry if it can't make state of the art stuff. Slap on some applique armor, new sighting toys and a 120mm gun, it'll be okay against a more modern MBT.

Besides, the army is my junior service anyway.

The F-22 is nice, but I wanted a design that can operate off carriers if necessary. Maybe something like the Rafale?

You do know the thickest armor on a Sherman is thicker then the thickest armor on a Leopard I right? Thinking that effective armor against shaped charges was imposibul, the Germans designed it to only resist 20mm cannon fire! I don’t think the turret is big enough to accept a 120mm gun either, though the Germans did test a Leo I with a modified version of the MBT-70 turret which could mount a 120mm gun.

I wouldn’t worry about technology; just use the original 1978 Leopard II. It’s a much better vehicle, and the early versions actually didn’t use any special advanced composite or laminate armor. They only used plain steel armor and perforated steel armor, which is simply steel armor with holes drilled in it (each too small for a shell to pass through, and also angled to further reduce the chance a shot goes through a hole) to reduce total weight, allowing the armor to be thicker. Any remotely decent nation could build an equivalent in the year 2008.

The Leo I isn’t exactly bad for fighting say the Shepistani hoards, but I’d really advise against making it your best tank (having a hoard in reserve is another story)

Sea Skimmer wrote:You do know the thickest armor on a Sherman is thicker then the thickest armor on a Leopard I right? Thinking that effective armor against shaped charges was imposibul, the Germans designed it to only resist 20mm cannon fire! I don’t think the turret is big enough to accept a 120mm gun either, though the Germans did test a Leo I with a modified version of the MBT-70 turret which could mount a 120mm gun...

The Leo I isn’t exactly bad for fighting say the Shepistani hoards, but I’d really advise against making it your best tank (having a hoard in reserve is another story)

How about if he took Leo-I hulls and redesigned them-- turretless, maybe STuG style, with tapered bore tungsten-firing 105 instead of a 120? Might do for a cheap, spam-'em-out assault gun/tank

Thanks for the advice regarding Leopards. So Leopard 2s aren't that expensive, I suppose I could field those. The Leopard Assault Gun idea has some potential. I think I'll keep that in the prototype phase for now, and maybe ramp up full production for wartime. Or, of course, a viable export market.

I was wondering if I should start making profiles on some of the NPC nations in Frequesue, or if someone else wants to handle them.

Coiler wrote:I was wondering if I should start making profiles on some of the NPC nations in Frequesue, or if someone else wants to handle them.

I see no problem with that.

Coiler wrote:I was wondering if I should start making profiles on some of the NPC nations in Frequesue, or if someone else wants to handle them.

I plan on doing a few, definitely the bigest one directly to the west of Indhopal.

Raj Ahten wrote: I plan on doing a few, definitely the bigest one directly to the west of Indhopal.

Cool. The one I'm planning on doing first is the grey one in the north by one of the lakes. I want that to be Minoy, the mountainous nation that resisted the Coilerburg armies in conventional war.

Coyote: Question, why is a Su-25 considered a 5th generation aircraft, when it's really a 4th? Not to mention, it cost less than an F-15E. (even considering the usual Russian cheapness)

Also, if I go with the Russian mechanized airbourne, would I go with the Infantry, Mechanized (wheeled) and with all the high end modifiers?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Coyote: Question, why is a Su-25 considered a 5th generation aircraft, when it's really a 4th? Not to mention, it cost less than an F-15E. (even considering the usual Russian cheapness)

It's a fourth-generation light attack plane, really. Maybe he mistyped and meant Su-35?

Also, if I go with the Russian mechanized airbourne, would I go with the Infantry, Mechanized (wheeled) and with all the high end modifiers?

Yes. Don't forget your airlift assets too

Thanks phongn. Coyote, what's your Marine Expeditionary Force structure?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Coyote: Question, why is a Su-25 considered a 5th generation aircraft, when it's really a 4th? Not to mention, it cost less than an F-15E. (even considering the usual Russian cheapness)

I probably just screwed it up. That was a lot of data to enter. It may be a "4.5 generation" fighter, which I did not include as a separate category since I felt things were confusing enough already.

Also, if I go with the Russian mechanized airbourne, would I go with the Infantry, Mechanized (wheeled) and with all the high end modifiers?

Remember, "Mechanized" means "Tracks"-- if you want wheeled vehicles, you go with "Motorized".

It's kind of a pain in the ass, but you just have to scan Wiki (or any other source of your desire) to find air-droppable wheeled vehicles and apply them. I left it vague as to whether certain vehicles are air-droppable (parachutes) or merely air-deployable, meaning they can be brought in sling-loaded by choppers.

I found things like the German "Serval" is an air-droppable HUMVEE type fighting vehicle for a team-sized element, so I used it.

Since we're also allowed to consider certain levels of potential technology, I also took the liberty of creating a sub-class of light, air-droppable armored vehicle... the German "Wiesel" tankette (for LIght Armored forces) is a tiny little thing which fits most tactical transports (it's not as big as a HUMVEE) but when they experimented with air-dropping it, the vehicles were ruined. For the purposes of the game, I sacrificed some armor & fuel tank capacity for beefed-up suspension to create the "Wiesel-2A" (A for Airborne, eh?). Since this is a pretty minor conversion (and makes the vehicle more vulnerable as a trade-off), you might be able to consider a similar situation for air-droppable wheeled vehicles.

An airborne "Fox" recon vehicle, or perhaps an airborne version of an AMX-10RC or a Saladin, something like that ... but you have to be careful with making larger wheeled vehicles "air droppable", since there's less ground contact surface area to absorb landing shock. Most air-droppable wheeled vehicles will be 4-wheelers with incredible suspension (and lighter armor as a trade-off) or --at most-- six-wheelers.

I admit I didn;t flesh it out too much, but I felt the list of examples was already getting to be kind of extensive, and the point system was being buried under piles of Milspeak acronyms...