New World of Warcraft expansion: 3.0.2 patch update

[Crown]

I'm not sure if all of you are still reading this thread, however just so you all know; the gear that you can 'buy' off the Ardent Dawn (the epixx!) can be dis-enchanted ... into Void Crystals ... gogo exploit now before Blizzard nerfs it!

<- Has 40 Void Crystals so far!

[Sharp-kun]

Yays....

More void crystals....


*Looks at the 600+ in the guild bank*


Yay...

[Crown]

Fair enough, but for those of us who don't have a Guild bank, see above.

[Ghost Rider]

Fair enough, but for those of us who don't have a Guild bank, see above.

Pfft, I have a tailor alt along with an enchant main. I made mine of ultra dumb folks who would sell Soul essence for cheap, make loads of Soulcloth whatever, and then wash rinse repeat. I kept around 700+ in a bank alt a bunch friends of mine made for ourselves, because guilds are filled with assholes, and for the apocaplypse or something.

Voids were pretty easy compared to vanilla's epic enchant crap....well until you farmed MC for your frigging Tier 2 pants. Motherfuckers.

[Molyneux]

Fair enough, but for those of us who don't have a Guild bank, see above.

Pfft, I have a tailor alt along with an enchant main. I made mine of ultra dumb folks who would sell Soul essence for cheap, make loads of Soulcloth whatever, and then wash rinse repeat. I kept around 700+ in a bank alt a bunch friends of mine made for ourselves, because guilds are filled with assholes, and for the apocaplypse or something.

Voids were pretty easy compared to vanilla's epic enchant crap....well until you farmed MC for your frigging Tier 2 pants. Motherfuckers.

Oooh. Speaking as someone running an enchant/tailoring shaman (YES I know the tailoring doesn't work with it, but shut up, enchanting works with any class. And I like being able to make clothes, not just armor), got any tips for someone who's still journeyman?

[Ghost Rider]

Fair enough, but for those of us who don't have a Guild bank, see above.

Pfft, I have a tailor alt along with an enchant main. I made mine of ultra dumb folks who would sell Soul essence for cheap, make loads of Soulcloth whatever, and then wash rinse repeat. I kept around 700+ in a bank alt a bunch friends of mine made for ourselves, because guilds are filled with assholes, and for the apocaplypse or something.

Voids were pretty easy compared to vanilla's epic enchant crap....well until you farmed MC for your frigging Tier 2 pants. Motherfuckers.

Oooh. Speaking as someone running an enchant/tailoring shaman (YES I know the tailoring doesn't work with it, but shut up, enchanting works with any class. And I like being able to make clothes, not just armor), got any tips for someone who's still journeyman?

Depends on how high of level you have as a main.

The breakdown is pretty easy by getting some of the low level patterns and highlander and few other guides are awesome for quickie through the trash of 1-300.

Now for reason of what level is simple. If you can? Go into instances and clear them, because the drops do gives the more rare junk, but the cloth drops are much much better, especially if your server is selling Mageweave at 20G per stack.

As for clothes? Just check the AH, because a lot of them are rare stupidly low drops.

[Crown]

If you want a good place to farm certain cloth;

-Linen; Deadmines (if you can't get to Stockades this is your best bet for wool too)
-Wool; Stockades
-Silk; Scarlet Monastery
-Mageweave; Ogres in Feralas south of Dire Maul, non elite and very good drop rate.
-Runecloth; Scholomance/Stratholme or if you're not a high enough level to farm there, Sorrow Hill in WPL or Tyr's Hand in EPL.
-Netherweave; ANYWWHERE ... lol, just run your daillies you'll have netherweave coming out of your ears.

EDIT :: Highlander's Guides that Ghost was talking about.

[Lord Revan]

btw what would best places to farm herbs for inscription (I'm at 237 atm(with inscription that is))?

[Ghost Rider]

btw what would best places to farm herbs for inscription (I'm at 237 atm(with inscription that is))?

Sadly, everywhere. Though if you're a Pally? You're better off then anyone else if you have the Crusader Aura. Though for old world herbs pick places with vegation rather then rock. Blizz kinda follows the thought that swamps have more herbs then barren desert.

[Gil Hamilton]

From the point of view of someone who doesn't play a Retadin at all, but just loves how alot of the Alliance teams in BGs nowadays are up to 50% ret pallies in S2 gear jumping on the bandwagon, all of whom can gib me by staring too hard, I'm pretty OK with Ret getting nerfed frontwards and backwards.

Don't worry, I feel your pain. I played a Feral Druid through classic and TBC and remember our super-nerf that actually had to be hotfixed that evening because it went overboard.

On what I do play, Boomkin is actually really fun right now. Really fun. Maybe not the most powerful or useful, but imminently enjoyable. I like how Moonfire can be glyphed to become a true and potent DoT and how you can refresh it ad infinitum with Starfire.

Plus, the new spells they added are great. Typhoon is expense, but does ALOT of damage on AoE packs (plus blowing Allies off Horde towers in AV) and Starfall (when talented so that it stuns 15% of the time) is fun in PvP. Typhoon is also a surprisingly good and flushing out rogues. If you see a rogue stealth from a distance, you can usually count a three Mississippi and chuck a Typhoon in the path between you and where he stealthed to knock him out of it (this works because as a Rogue, he is GUARANTEED to go for you first). It's harder to avoid than Hurricane, I've found. Of course, even if you root and Faerie Fire him, he's still going to have a good chance of ruining your day because of CoS and Vanish, even if you throw Treants.

With school going, I have no time to raid, but moonkins have our niche there, even if its been somewhat sharing a role with Elemental Shamans right now. Our raid DPS has gone up and not just because we now have a talented 6% spell haste built into Boomkin form now. Still, it's nice.

[Sharp-kun]

From the point of view of someone who doesn't play a Retadin at all, but just loves how alot of the Alliance teams in BGs nowadays are up to 50% ret pallies in S2 gear jumping on the bandwagon, all of whom can gib me by staring too hard, I'm pretty OK with Ret getting nerfed frontwards and backwards.

The only nerf I have an issue with is the hotfixed in Avenging Wrath/Divine Shield/Divine Protection one. I'm all for not letting us bubble+wings at the same time, but the 2 minute forbearance AW now causes means that as a tank its useless a lot of the time, since using it means giving up my shield wall. If I pop it as I normally do at the start of the fight for more threat, I lose my panic button. They need to be made so they can't be popped at once, but this change hurts Prot and Holy more than ret at the moment.

[Gil Hamilton]

The only nerf I have an issue with is the hotfixed in Avenging Wrath/Divine Shield/Divine Protection one. I'm all for not letting us bubble+wings at the same time, but the 2 minute forbearance AW now causes means that as a tank its useless a lot of the time, since using it means giving up my shield wall. If I pop it as I normally do at the start of the fight for more threat, I lose my panic button. They need to be made so they can't be popped at once, but this change hurts Prot and Holy more than ret at the moment.

I can sympathize with that. I wonder why they didn't just make the forebearance effect last 20 seconds rather than the full 2mins? That's a bum wrap, all considering, since I know alot of Holy Paladins who use Bubble+Wings too now in Shit Hits the Fan situations, but Blizzard is known for taking too much when only a little needs taken and Retadins were being ridiculous with it.

As a druid, I can feel your pain on that.

[Civil War Man]

The only problem I'm having with Retribution nerfs is how Blizzard is handling them. At this point their actions come across as "Let's just throw nerfs at them right now and hope something sticks. No time to test, no time to wait until the patch. We have to do this right now." And so a lot of the stuff looks like it's being given little to no thought.

For example, Ghostcrawler recently said that one of the reasons they nerfed the Judgement of the Wise mana return was because Retribution was putting up absurd healing numbers along with their DPS. To which the common response is, "Um...you do know that Judgement of Light healing is being attributed to the person casting it, right? We're not going full DPS while handing out Holy Lights like candy. We cast Judgement of Light, and then go back to beating in faces while other people heal themselves while attacking the boss."

They put Avenging Wrath back on Forbearance (and in fact that situation is now worse than pre-patch since the bubble/wings situation is now the same but with Forbearance lasting twice as long). When the idea was first pitched, there were immediately comments of "You know, if you want to separate them, you could do a linked cooldown. Or have one overwrite the other. Or make it so you can't attack at all while bubbled." And within a few hours, they hotfix it so it causes Forbearance.

Retribution does too much burst, so they start hotfixing spell coefficient nerfs to seals, judgements, and spells. Including to spells that Retribution paladins aren't even using. Ignoring the fact that if they wanted to nerf Ret burst and only Ret burst, they wouldn't have had to go any further than the Ret talent tree. For example?

Heart of the Crusader - Judgements increase critical strike chance against judged opponent by 3%
Conviction - Critical strike chance increased by 5%
Seal of Command - Chance of dealing holy damage. Deals more when judged, with a 100% crit chance against stunned or incapacitated enemies
Sanctified Seals - Critical strike chance increased by 3%
Crusade - All damage increased by 3% (6% versus humanoid, undead, demon, and elemental)
Sanctified Retribution - Ret aura increases damage done by 2%
Vengeance - Stackable buff, procs on critical strikes, increases damage done by 9% with a full stack
Art of War - Judgement, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm do 20% more damage when they crit
Fanaticism - Critical strike chance of Judgements increased by 25%
Sanctified Wrath - Critical strike chance of Hammer of Wrath increased by 50%

Seriously. Take a look at that. Look at the number of talents that increase crit chance, crit damage, or overall damage. As long as the talent tree is full of that, retribution will always be about burst.

There were a couple I left out of the above list. Righteous Vengance (Judgement and Divine Storm deal 25% more damage when they crit) and part of Sanctified Wrath (50% of all damage bypasses damage reduction while affected by Avenging Wrath). The first is moot, because Blizzard has been clear that they are changing it with the expansion to instead to an effect like Deep Wounds (when the stated abilities crit, they deal the extra damage, but as a DoT), which is not burst damage.

The second (the part about AW bypassing damage reduction) is another reason why the nerfs are coming across as haphazard, poorly thought out, and in some cases downright insulting. It's because they already took that part out. When they implemented the most recent hotfix that made Avenging Wrath cause Forbearance again (which they announced only a few hours before implementing), they also took out the part of Sanctified Wrath that made it bypass damage reduction. I have no problem with them doing that. The problem I have, though, is that they never bothered to mention it to the players. At the same time, they also cut the PvP duration of Judgement of Justice from 20 seconds to 10 seconds. Again, without telling any of the players.

So, that's why paladins are getting pissed off. Retribution gets released overpowered, and so in response the class undergoes a series of nerfs that cause issues without addressing the actual problem (i.e. burst damage), with some of the nerfs hurting Protection and Holy, neither of which are overpowered, as much or more than Retribution. These nerfs are implemented through a series of hotfixes done in rapid succession, sometimes without even notifying the players, with all the appearance of attempting to balance Paladins at level 70, two weeks before the level cap gets raised to 80. Meanwhile other high-burst specs, such as Arcane Mages and Arms Warriors, are notified that their DPS may be too high, but Blizzard is going to wait until people start hitting level 80, because they don't want to risk over-nerfing them.

TL;DR version: It seems that Blizzard still doesn't have a good grasp on what a Paladin's role should be. This whole parade of nerfs just shows little thought, less testing, and a lot of knee-jerk reaction.

[Teleros]

The only nerf I have an issue with is the hotfixed in Avenging Wrath/Divine Shield/Divine Protection one. I'm all for not letting us bubble+wings at the same time, but the 2 minute forbearance AW now causes means that as a tank its useless a lot of the time, since using it means giving up my shield wall. If I pop it as I normally do at the start of the fight for more threat, I lose my panic button. They need to be made so they can't be popped at once, but this change hurts Prot and Holy more than ret at the moment.

1. Casting Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Hand of Protection (on yourself) immediately cancels Avenging Wrath. And vice versa.
2. Restore Forbearance to its 3 minute duration: the 2 minute change is no longer needed.
3. Divine Shield now reduces all damage done by 50%. Swing timers are now unaffected, and that Protection talent is adjusted to compensate as well.
Voila, no more stupid bubble-and-burst tactics in 3 easy steps. I know it will still hurt Prot & Holy somewhat (eg DS + AW for emergency healing), but much less so than the current situation. As to whether or not Blizzard will do this... now that's another matter entirely .

Retribution does too much burst, so they start hotfixing spell coefficient nerfs to seals, judgements, and spells. Including to spells that Retribution paladins aren't even using.

Name 3 that, if not nerfed (or if buffed), will then not be used by Retadins. That's the problem: not enough variation in spells. I'd love to see a powerful, SP-based (mostly) seal for Holy paladins that required a 1H & shield to use, but perhaps which also caused little threat (maybe Righteous Fury wouldn't affect it).

Seriously. Take a look at that. Look at the number of talents that increase crit chance, crit damage, or overall damage. As long as the talent tree is full of that, retribution will always be about burst.

1. Art of War is to be changed to no longer grant a crit bonus but merely a flat +% damage bonus.
2. Fanaticism is hardly ever used in a PvP spec: too many useful things in Prot etc to take instead.
3. Hammer of Wrath will only work on an enemy below 20% health (currently 35%), so Sanctified Wrath doesn't mean much.

[Lord Revan]

btw what would best places to farm herbs for inscription (I'm at 237 atm(with inscription that is))?

Sadly, everywhere. Though if you're a Pally? You're better off then anyone else if you have the Crusader Aura. Though for old world herbs pick places with vegation rather then rock. Blizz kinda follows the thought that swamps have more herbs then barren desert.

my pally is miner/BS sadly it's my nelf warrior that's inscription/herbalist

[Lord Revan]

Retribution does too much burst, so they start hotfixing spell coefficient nerfs to seals, judgements, and spells. Including to spells that Retribution paladins aren't even using.

Name 3 that, if not nerfed (or if buffed), will then not be used by Retadins. That's the problem: not enough variation in spells. I'd love to see a powerful, SP-based (mostly) seal for Holy paladins that required a 1H & shield to use, but perhaps which also caused little threat (maybe Righteous Fury wouldn't affect it).

well holy pallies do use also spell power (used to be +heal) off-hands if they're better then what ever shield you got at that moment (I used Saga of Terrok of ages) and even 2h weapons (though there isn't that many 2h weapons with high spell power that aren't staves), but I'd love a seal that was holy only or even such that holy pallies benefited the most out of it (maybe something needing high SP and/or Int(both which a decent holy pally should have plenty but prot or retri not so much))

[Teleros]

but I'd love a seal that was holy only or even such that holy pallies benefited the most out of it (maybe something needing high SP and/or Int(both which a decent holy pally should have plenty but prot or retri not so much))

Just had a look at the armoury, and I've got 600 SP as Retribution, whilst one of the healadins has 1227 SP (more +healing). Prot & Ret +intellect meanwhile should be down to practically 0 (only +all stats will grant it I expect), although I'd imagine a new seal would scale better with SP.

[Minischoles]

The only problem I'm having with Retribution nerfs is how Blizzard is handling them. At this point their actions come across as "Let's just throw nerfs at them right now and hope something sticks. No time to test, no time to wait until the patch. We have to do this right now." And so a lot of the stuff looks like it's being given little to no thought.

For example, Ghostcrawler recently said that one of the reasons they nerfed the Judgement of the Wise mana return was because Retribution was putting up absurd healing numbers along with their DPS. To which the common response is, "Um...you do know that Judgement of Light healing is being attributed to the person casting it, right? We're not going full DPS while handing out Holy Lights like candy. We cast Judgement of Light, and then go back to beating in faces while other people heal themselves while attacking the boss."

They put Avenging Wrath back on Forbearance (and in fact that situation is now worse than pre-patch since the bubble/wings situation is now the same but with Forbearance lasting twice as long). When the idea was first pitched, there were immediately comments of "You know, if you want to separate them, you could do a linked cooldown. Or have one overwrite the other. Or make it so you can't attack at all while bubbled." And within a few hours, they hotfix it so it causes Forbearance.

Retribution does too much burst, so they start hotfixing spell coefficient nerfs to seals, judgements, and spells. Including to spells that Retribution paladins aren't even using. Ignoring the fact that if they wanted to nerf Ret burst and only Ret burst, they wouldn't have had to go any further than the Ret talent tree. For example?

Heart of the Crusader - Judgements increase critical strike chance against judged opponent by 3%
Conviction - Critical strike chance increased by 5%
Seal of Command - Chance of dealing holy damage. Deals more when judged, with a 100% crit chance against stunned or incapacitated enemies
Sanctified Seals - Critical strike chance increased by 3%
Crusade - All damage increased by 3% (6% versus humanoid, undead, demon, and elemental)
Sanctified Retribution - Ret aura increases damage done by 2%
Vengeance - Stackable buff, procs on critical strikes, increases damage done by 9% with a full stack
Art of War - Judgement, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm do 20% more damage when they crit
Fanaticism - Critical strike chance of Judgements increased by 25%
Sanctified Wrath - Critical strike chance of Hammer of Wrath increased by 50%

Seriously. Take a look at that. Look at the number of talents that increase crit chance, crit damage, or overall damage. As long as the talent tree is full of that, retribution will always be about burst.

There were a couple I left out of the above list. Righteous Vengance (Judgement and Divine Storm deal 25% more damage when they crit) and part of Sanctified Wrath (50% of all damage bypasses damage reduction while affected by Avenging Wrath). The first is moot, because Blizzard has been clear that they are changing it with the expansion to instead to an effect like Deep Wounds (when the stated abilities crit, they deal the extra damage, but as a DoT), which is not burst damage.

The second (the part about AW bypassing damage reduction) is another reason why the nerfs are coming across as haphazard, poorly thought out, and in some cases downright insulting. It's because they already took that part out. When they implemented the most recent hotfix that made Avenging Wrath cause Forbearance again (which they announced only a few hours before implementing), they also took out the part of Sanctified Wrath that made it bypass damage reduction. I have no problem with them doing that. The problem I have, though, is that they never bothered to mention it to the players. At the same time, they also cut the PvP duration of Judgement of Justice from 20 seconds to 10 seconds. Again, without telling any of the players.

So, that's why paladins are getting pissed off. Retribution gets released overpowered, and so in response the class undergoes a series of nerfs that cause issues without addressing the actual problem (i.e. burst damage), with some of the nerfs hurting Protection and Holy, neither of which are overpowered, as much or more than Retribution. These nerfs are implemented through a series of hotfixes done in rapid succession, sometimes without even notifying the players, with all the appearance of attempting to balance Paladins at level 70, two weeks before the level cap gets raised to 80. Meanwhile other high-burst specs, such as Arcane Mages and Arms Warriors, are notified that their DPS may be too high, but Blizzard is going to wait until people start hitting level 80, because they don't want to risk over-nerfing them.

TL;DR version: It seems that Blizzard still doesn't have a good grasp on what a Paladin's role should be. This whole parade of nerfs just shows little thought, less testing, and a lot of knee-jerk reaction.

Welcome to being a feral druid at the start of TBC. Finally druids who had been relegated to the healing role or awkward tri-specs in vanilla could be tanks and do insane DPS (i was getting 3.5k mauls back at level 65), and the whine machine got into motion.
Mainly from warriors, but others where there adding their 'me too, nerf feral its OP' and so Blizzard as per usual nerfed without thought or reason and completely broke feral. In one fell swoop they made druid tanks the third tank out of warrior/pally/druid for the rest of TBC. Even now at level 70 with all the changes they brought in the last patch Maul does nowhere near as much damage as it did at freaking 60. Blizzard lives off new jerk reactions to players whining, with no thought to how it can completely break a class because of whine about pvp.

Hell lets take the most recent example of whine that has broken yet another druid spec in resto. Pre patch i was pretty much the best healer in my guild because I had a good enough connection and enough haste and skill to keep lifeblooms rolling on at least 3 tanks and still raid heal. This meant i was constantly covering the 3 tanks for incoming damage (and incidentally keeping the MT healers very relaxed and mana efficient because i was covering the little damage) and throwing lifeblooms about to raid heal. Lifebloom was perfect for what druids were meant to be, the Master of Healing over Time, it was powerful and mana efficient when stacked to 3 and kept there.

Yet because of the sandbox called Arena, people started to whine. It annoyed people that an instant cast uninterruptable spell could be so powerful, despite the fact it was needed for druids to compete in PvE since our casted heals are way too long. So the whine started, and just kept going. You could literally go onto the pvp forums at any time during the day of any given week, and find at least 3 nerf druid threads, usually far more. And so come the most recent patch they completely broke lifebloom, its not even used for 1% of my healing anymore.

Increased mana cost and decreased healing, so its essentially useless to stack it. And what are we left with? Rejuvenation that heals every tick (3 seconds) instead of every second, Regrowth thats a 2 second cast and even with all the talents you can whack in it, its a poor heal when you're up against priests and paladins. Healing Touch can be talented and glyphed down to a 1 second cast, but you can't wear any haste then since it goes below the GCD, and it turns you into a completely gimped Paladin, with none of the regen of the former, and completely screws your healing rotation and mana regen, since spamming HT you'll go OOM in about a minute.
Wild Growth in theory is a very powerful spell, an aoe hot that 'smart' heals (it will affect those closest within 15 yards with the hot who have the lowest HP), yet again you're up against other healers, and when up against a shaman with Chain Heal, or a priest with CoH, you're going to get hideous overhealing (against 2 CoH priests on a recent Kalecgos kill i ended up with about 49% overhealing). And as for Nourish, again from what i've been able to play of the beta, its just a stupid form of a paladins flash heal, completely taking away from what druids are supposed to be.

So rest assured paladins, you're not the first class to feel the harsh nerfbat of Blizzard that breaks you as a class, you survive, but enjoy being gimped for a good long while before Blizzard finally decides you need to be fixed.

[Civil War Man]

So rest assured paladins, you're not the first class to feel the harsh nerfbat of Blizzard that breaks you as a class, you survive, but enjoy being gimped for a good long while before Blizzard finally decides you need to be fixed.

For entertainment value, I recommend looking up "Does Blizzard Really Hate Paladins?" It's a series of videos detailing the history of the Paladin class from the vanilla beta to a few weeks before 3.0.2. Something I learned: Paladin was really powerful in the vanilla beta until PvP complaints caused Blizzard to nerf them into heal/buffbots.

Paladins have received that kind of treatment a lot. They are kindred spirits to Druids in that regard. Overpowered in beta/nerfed before expansion/pigeonholed into a certain role. Rinse and repeat. The problems with Feral is that the tree covers both tank and melee DPS roles. So based on what talents you have, you run the risk of having a druid who can tank and melee DPS simultaneously, or can't do either. Retribution's problem is that it's lack of snares, interrupts, and intercepts, meaning it needs a lot of burst. Too much, and it's OP. Too little, and it can't kill anything.

Name 3 that, if not nerfed (or if buffed), will then not be used by Retadins. That's the problem: not enough variation in spells. I'd love to see a powerful, SP-based (mostly) seal for Holy paladins that required a 1H & shield to use, but perhaps which also caused little threat (maybe Righteous Fury wouldn't affect it).

Thing is, while Holy Paladins do need a lot of help (being the lowest DPS healing spec in the game and all), nerfing seals to bring Retribution under control just hurts the whole class. And as long as those high burst talents are still there, Retribution will still be high burst, short of neutering all paladin DPS. Giving Holy a new seal puts a bandaid on the problem, and still only marginally helps them. Hell, a lot of Healing Paladins were speccing Retribution immediately after the patch because Retribution had some better healing tools and allowed them to actually quest solo when they wanted to.

1. Art of War is to be changed to no longer grant a crit bonus but merely a flat +% damage bonus.
2. Fanaticism is hardly ever used in a PvP spec: too many useful things in Prot etc to take instead.
3. Hammer of Wrath will only work on an enemy below 20% health (currently 35%), so Sanctified Wrath doesn't mean much.

1. +% damage bonus to a high-burst spec makes it still a high-burst spec. It doesn't fix the problem, it just makes the burst slightly smaller.
2. Fair enough, though people were also complaining about Ret's PvE damage, and Blizzard wants to bring down their PvE DPS (even if it was for stupid reasons, see my previous post about Ghostcrawler talking about how Ret was topping healing charts). Nerfing abilities that the whole class uses, and abilities that Retribution doesn't use, doesn't fix the problem of burst when you still have the talent tree comprised primarily of burst talents.
3. Also doesn't mean much. If the paladin takes it, it gives a more burst that's only slightly more situational than before. If no one takes it anymore, all it does is hamstring Retribution by giving it worthless talents in an attempt to bring its burst down. Hammer of Wrath is a KO ability, basically a ranged Execute. Reducing the window where it can be used doesn't make it less of a KO ability. And if Ret paladins do take the talent, it gives that KO ability a higher crit chance to a spec that already crits more than most classes.

[Crown]

I know this is a QQ to Retadin thread at the moment, and no I don't think you guys are unjustified in some of your outrage at what Blizzard have done again, but I just had to post this. No matter how hard you think you have it, you don't have to put up with this shit;

Make sure locks have enough survivability in PvP (since we nerfed a lot of it).

No shit.

[Civil War Man]

Yeah, I am glad that I don't have to put up with that. I don't PvP, but it sucked having to try to heal myself in any type of melee when my bubble was on cooldown. I'm definitely glad they changed spell pushback even if Retribution does have instant Flash of Light for a decent amount of the time.

[Gil Hamilton]

I think the 'locks got the hard end of the nerf hammer because of the fact that not only did they scale better in TBC than anyone predicted, but also because their method of PvPing is just so inherently aggravating. Fear-locking people so they run around unable to do anything while the warlock and anyone else can wail on you just pisses a person off. There are other classes out there that were as power, but NONE so annoying to fight against. It gets pretty terrible when you can beat a warlock down to 5% health and he ends up killing you by the usual "Death Coil - DoT DoT DoT - Fear - Shadow Bolt Shadow Bolt" jazz. That's why Warlocks got mashed.

And I kind of feel bad, cause on Boomkin I kind of eat Warlocks for lunch now. Quickly if my cooldowns are up, since Starfall and Treants just tenderize Warlocks. Melee carves their ass too.

[Ghost Rider]

I think the 'locks got the hard end of the nerf hammer because of the fact that not only did they scale better in TBC than anyone predicted, but also because their method of PvPing is just so inherently aggravating. Fear-locking people so they run around unable to do anything while the warlock and anyone else can wail on you just pisses a person off. There are other classes out there that were as power, but NONE so annoying to fight against. It gets pretty terrible when you can beat a warlock down to 5% health and he ends up killing you by the usual "Death Coil - DoT DoT DoT - Fear - Shadow Bolt Shadow Bolt" jazz. That's why Warlocks got mashed.

And I kind of feel bad, cause on Boomkin I kind of eat Warlocks for lunch now. Quickly if my cooldowns are up, since Starfall and Treants just tenderize Warlocks. Melee carves their ass too.

Warlocks got raped because the QQing bitches couldn't grasp the warlock has nearly no burst and only ONE form of CC. Having the ability to drain mana and life is useful when you aren't priority number one, and especially not when it's Arena BS dueling and the other class either goes "CLOTH FODDER!!!" or "Ignore it, kill the healer.". Even at season 3, I laughed when I saw a lock/Druid team up. It was "Oh he'll DoT me, so cyclone the retard, I kill pet, and he'll be useless unless he pulls another pet for Sweeping strike love while the druid runs around like an idiot.". Season 4 was even worse because now matches meant something, it was "Laugh at Warlock, kill his pet, kill his healer...point and laugh as he tries.". In mass PvP, it worked a little better because of Seed of Corruption, but the instant one spots them, they are fodder again.

Fear is a big deal? How? Any of the melee have methods to laugh it off or lock it out enough that they can close the space between and proceed to lay into the poor fucker. And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

[Crown]

What was sad is that Warlocks were carried by Druids in 2s and 3s* and by comps specifically designed to protect the Warlock in 5s since end of S2 onwards, but Blizzard have for some reason FAILED to notice this.

What's also sad is that you can tell the skilled (air quote) Warriors and Rogues in Arena due to 2 abilities; Sunder and Expose Armor. Put that on the Warlock and just sit on his arse, you don't even need to kill the pet or rotate CC on his team mate(s). Just get those de-buffs up and sit on him, their team will die, it is inevitable.


*Edit :: To be fair, in 3s we were carried by Warriors just as much, if you don't have a Warrior who is 99% on top of the game your entire team fell apart.

EDIT 2 :: Typos

[Crown]

And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

They were also given the Master Demonolgist resistance that the Felpup provided a Warlock (which has been REMOVED from Warlocks by the way) and a 50% reduction to Magical CC as a baseline ability from level 71 so Warlocks wouldn't be that hard a counter to Mages anymore. What did we get to help us against Rogues ....


*crickets chirping*


Seriously, Warlocks are going to be broken for Arena until mid S6/start of S7.