Four Tie Defenders vs Six Enterprise E's

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-02-20 02:05pm

Wow a new village idiot in the making i see, one that blames his lack of brains on lack of sleep.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-20 02:23pm

I think thats an affront to insomniacs everywhere....

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-20 02:24pm

They're obviously getting desperate when they're pulling all of this kind of nonsense to emonstrate that six of their finest capital ships can survive against a mere flight of the Empire's finest starfighters.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-20 02:26pm

Here's a good one.....Starfleet v. The 181st.....

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-20 04:35pm

darthdavid wrote:Well the empire just throws swarms of crap at its enemies as evidenced by tie fighters.

Did you know that for an air force, a 10% loss rate is considered a huge disaster? The Rebels lost 90% of their force attacking the Death Star to an INFERIOR number of basic TIE fighters.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-02-20 05:48pm

darthdavid wrote:Well the empire just throws swarms of crap at its enemies as evidenced by tie fighters. So basically if you can blow up a port-o-potty with an ion engine and a laser pointer on steroids you can blow up a tie fighter.

The TIEs you deride, while incapable of killing the Feddie top of the line warship, would not have that problem gong against a smaller ship such as, say a Miranda. A squadron of TIE Avengers, Defenders, or maybe even Scimitar assault bombers should kill one of those.

The shuttles shuttles should be able to do this and it's been demonstrated that unconventional attacks can take out star destroyers (circa NJO).

I want your source that a shuttle, using "unconventional" tactics, can kill an ISD in NJO. Really, I do.

So, With the shuttles taking out the UNSHEILDED tie fighters and bombers and the small cap ships taking out the sheilded fighters and mid sized ships

taking out the midsized ships? Not likely. A Lancer frigate is one of the weakers SW cap ships there is. It is designed only to kill fighters. But based on what I was experimenting with based on the rogue squadron quote, it has shields at about 14 gt/sec. That is far in excess of standard Feddie weapons

so the regular cap ships should be free to concentrate their fire on the bridge of the star destroyers (an a wing made it through so you can't say that focused cap ship fire won't) so if nothing else the feddies take a sizable hunk out of the Imperial (or New Republic) fleet.

1) a wing did NOT make it through. A single fighter did. 1 < 144.
2) I don't think you have a grasp of the numbers here. Trek simply lacks the raw firepower to do a damn thing, even with low end ISD shield numbers.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-20 06:30pm

darthdavid wrote:Well i geuss it's time to spin the wheel of stupidity. Today it landed on moronic posting while not thinking, tommorow, who knows ?

Perhaps you should read the website.

www.stardestroyer.net

Now keep in mind this is just Mike Wongs work, Dr. Saxton has actually done some official work for Lucas and that is the Episode II ICS. If you want to be respected here you will need to do some of your own research. Compare the abilities of the UFP against the abilities of the Empire.

Go get started and come back in a month.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-20 06:37pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
darthdavid wrote:Well the empire just throws swarms of crap at its enemies as evidenced by tie fighters.
Did you know that for an air force, a 10% loss rate is considered a huge disaster? The Rebels lost 90% of their force attacking the Death Star to an INFERIOR number of basic TIE fighters.

No way. The Empire had at least 1000 fighters on just the SDs, not to mention the thousands inside of the DS.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-20 06:43pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
darthdavid wrote:Well the empire just throws swarms of crap at its enemies as evidenced by tie fighters.
Did you know that for an air force, a 10% loss rate is considered a huge disaster? The Rebels lost 90% of their force attacking the Death Star to an INFERIOR number of basic TIE fighters.
No way. The Empire had at least 1000 fighters on just the SDs, not to mention the thousands inside of the DS.

Yes way. Come on people......you have watched the movie and you know damn well that there weren't 1000 TIEs in the sky engaging the Rebels.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-20 06:47pm

Nor were there in ANH, but the DS had at least 4000 ties. So maybe we just didn't see them all.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-20 06:55pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:Nor were there in ANH, but the DS had at least 4000 ties. So maybe we just didn't see them all.

Just because it had them did not mean they were all launched. If you think they were then you must prove it.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-20 06:58pm

Ther is no actual evidence, but it is hard to believe that the Imps wouldn't play the number card after ANH. I will back down.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-02-20 07:06pm

I think you overestimate their chances!

Admiral Johnason wrote:Ther is no actual evidence

Thank you.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-20 07:11pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:Ther is no actual evidence, but it is hard to believe that the Imps wouldn't play the number card after ANH. I will back down.

It's hard to believe that Riker only fired one phaser blast against a 20 year old BoP in STG, and then fired a photon torpedo after they exploited a defect in the model (which is was retired from service for).

However, those are the facts and they are canon. Speculation and common sense are not.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-20 11:43pm

I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs. The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships. Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time. The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point. You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships. Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-02-20 11:44pm

Only Vader's fighters were launched. The rest were held back, since the Rebels shouldn't even have been able to hit the exhaust port.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-20 11:56pm

darthdavid wrote:I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs. The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships. Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time. The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point. You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships. Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?

Ummmm yes, and this shows the Vong were on par with SW tech.

How the hell do you extrapolate that because the Vong can take on the NR the Federation can hurt an ISD...in a wartime situation(given that the ISD won't be alone...and each of it's MTL's and HTL's can kill a Federation starship).

Nice logic....yeesh

As for the ewoks...why is this some rallying point given those bear like creatures demonstrated more tactical knowledge then feddie redshirts?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-21 12:06am

darthdavid wrote:Well the empire just throws swarms of crap at its enemies as evidenced by tie fighters. So basically if you can blow up a port-o-potty with an ion engine and a laser pointer on steroids you can blow up a tie fighter. The shuttles shuttles should be able to do this and it's been demonstrated that unconventional attacks can take out star destroyers (circa NJO). So, With the shuttles taking out the UNSHEILDED tie fighters and bombers and the small cap ships taking out the sheilded fighters and mid sized ships so the regular cap ships should be free to concentrate their fire on the bridge of the star destroyers (an a wing made it through so you can't say that focused cap ship fire won't) so if nothing else the feddies take a sizable hunk out of the Imperial (or New Republic) fleet.

WTF are you talking about?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-21 12:10am

darthdavid wrote:I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs.

What are you basing this off of?

The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships.

Prove that the Feds can duplicate YV firepower.

Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time.

Yes, you should.

The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point.

Do so.

You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships.

Sure I can. Queen Amidala's personal yacht can disperse more firepower in one SECOND than the E-D has dished out in the entire TNG series. How can an ISD, built with the same technology, defeat an ISD?

Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?

Let's see how the UFP would have done on Endor. Oh wait, their pajamas would have allowed them to be slaughtered by the Ewok arrows in the opening SECONDS of combat. I guess the Empire did better, despite losing.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-02-21 12:37am

darthdavid wrote:I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs.

Smaller ships like Carracks with ramming maybe. And that's if the ship didn't blow them out of the sky. Going by what Sean posted that you thought meant you had support here, a single Light Turbolaser, low end, is 20x stronger then the shield rating he gave. That would make Siener System Patrol craft capable of killing GCS's in one shot.

The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships.

They destroyed them by shooting them to hell with Gigaton range plasma busts. That is not unconventional tactics. Unconventional tactics would be like Janeway's beaming the torp into the Borg pod in Dark Frontier. Further, if you wnat to claim they can duplicate Vong feats, you need to show they can do the same things as the Vong, primarily produce weaponry anywhere near a powerful. Trhe Dovin Basals would be a good aid as well.

Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time. The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point.

Becasue there simply aren't any. They are yet to loose an ISD to anything new and weird. All the capital ships lost from Vector Prime through Remnant have been through shoot them up fights, and ramming in a few rare cases.

You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships. Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?

They used sheer numbers to overcome the fact they were getting slaughtered. How is that anything new, the russians did it in WW2.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 12:43am

darthdavid wrote:I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs. The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships. Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time. The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point. You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships. Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?

I see you haven't followed my advice..........

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-02-21 02:26am

Admiral Johnason wrote:Nor were there in ANH, but the DS had at least 4000 ties. So maybe we just didn't see them all.

The only fighters that were launched was Vader's personal squadron. The were a elite unit who's job it was to escort Vader. while Vader was on board they were berthed in the Death Star's Hanger. Tarkin outranked Vader and so only the fighter under his direct command launched. Blowing up Alderaan was Tarkin's Idea. The Death Star was his baby and no one was going to tell him how to run the place. So tarkin REFUSED to launch any fighters to defend the Death Star and also REFUSED to listen to why there was a danger. So there were only 30 Ties launched cause that was all Vader could command. And Vader did not have the authority to tell Tarkin what to do. It is apperrent that killing Tarkin was NOT a option.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-02-21 03:14am

Keevan_Colton wrote:I think thats an affront to insomniacs everywhere....

hell, my posts were mostly ravings when I was an insomniac. heh.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-21 05:47am

Enforcer Talen wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:I think thats an affront to insomniacs everywhere....
hell, my posts were mostly ravings when I was an insomniac. heh.

There's ravings and then there's idiocy

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-02-21 07:02am

darthdavid wrote:I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs. The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships. Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time. The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point. You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships. Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?

Ewok?

Where?

Someone rang?