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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Raj, I sent the diplomatic communique. GOing to reply?

Sorry about that, I got sidetracked for awhile. The project is a go!

Why would I make demands? Demands imply an "or else". I suppose I could have requested that the UCSR remove it's military forces from Livorno, but somehow, I'm doubting they would on my asking.

And why would I try to roll some tanks into San Dorado? For the hell of it? More likely, it becauses he tried to attack me, and I doubt CATO would want to escalate that. And then I wouldn't try to roll tanks, but rather I would conduct an air campaign.

Any use of weapons by any member of CATO against Tian Xia military personnel or sovereign Tian Xia territory will be considered a precursor to an attack on the MESS by Tian Xia, with all that is implied. Caveat: actions in non aligned territory in support of a side. Example: the situation in Costa, if it had progressed further, would have resulted in TXAFN crew in harm's way. Actions against them would not have resulted in reprisals. Actions against units or towns in Tian Jiao province would have.

Stas Bush wrote:Considering his Majesty's absolutely ignorant attitude towards the use of WMDs by rogue formations or failed states - call it how you like - against a fully legitimate government which is also a member of the CATO,

Ding! You're wrong. Chemical weapons were used by Costa in action against Costa rebels. Any effect on Baernish troops would have been because they were co-located with the rebels, and therefore belligerents against the Costa government. Attacks by the Costa government against Baerne were strictly conventional. And a government which can maintain a army, navy, and air force typically is not considered failed. They may be corrupt as hell, but functional enough. Somalia is a good example of a failed state. So is Afghanistan. Mortimer's Claim is failed, as is the entirety of the CFR.

Hey PeZook - Where exactly is this piratical attack taking place? You can use a Baenrish port for repairs and stuff, if it's close.

Master_Baerne wrote:Hey PeZook - Where exactly is this piratical attack taking place? You can use a Baenrish port for repairs and stuff, if it's close.

PeZook wrote:62 miles NNE off San Dorado Harbor, San Dorado

That would be...around the "tip" that San Dorado makes on the F-ing Continent? Since it's off to the east, rather than the west. Possibly up above the hook of the Untamed Wilderness, but I haven't checked the scale.

Master_Baerne wrote:What happened to Czech, anyway? I was looking forward to seeing how that war would've turned out.

Not sure, though it probably would have resulted in his invasion forces coming under counterattack by Cascadian forces.

As for the Summit, it has basically devolved into Beo and some of the CATO players exchanging barbs, frankly at this point it looks like the Old Dominion came specifically for the purpose of wrecking any hope of an accommodation while the NFT is more interested in bluster than in actual negotiation, with Tian Xia gleefully playing along with that.

And seriously, it's clear that a bargain can be struck: CATO exchanging a pullback or at least downgrading of Livorno in exchange for Tian Xia reducing forces in Costa.

General note:

I haven't been posting abotu the conference but Wilkonia is there its just I can't write dialouge worth shit so generally speaking we're flying in concert with Coyote. I know that's late to add but I'm still only at about 75-80% back together on my computer.

Aaand we just walked out. If Tian Xia can't even come right out and propose a deal to CATO as a whole at a MESS-CATO summit, and would rather bluster some more in the general direction of the NFT, then clearly this summit serves no purpose and we're better of just ordering some more big guns. So that's exactly what we're going to do. Fun times!

SiegeTank wrote:Aaand we just walked out. If Tian Xia can't even come right out and propose a deal to CATO as a whole at a MESS-CATO summit, and would rather bluster some more in the general direction of the NFT, then clearly this summit serves no purpose and we're better of just ordering some more big guns. So that's exactly what we're going to do. Fun times!

Of course even with two nations combined your GDP won't support but 1/10th of the big guns any Imperium can afford so...that doesn't seem like much of a threat

You know, at this point CATO and MESS deserve the opportunity to nuke each other into oblivion. You're all acting like petulant children at the summit. We were actually making progress with the Byzantine proposal, supported by Canissia, when you all suddenly decided to exchange a few more barbs and then start walking out of the summit.

Now, as for Shady: We implemented both unreal time and a slower time progression in-game to accommodate this summit and yet you walk out because nobody's posted a reply to the summit in a few days? A lot of us have lives outside of this game as well as other stories we want to tell in the game, it is unfair for you to decide that because a full response of some sort isn't issued by such and such time the summit is "dragging on".

As for Siege, instead of going nasty over the Tian Xia base and talking about aiming missiles at Tian Jiao and such, you could see what price tag Tian Xia would put on scrapping that base. But nope, you're walking out and pretty much condemning yourself to having a MESS base straddling your vital line of communication between the two northern quadrants of Frequesue.

*grumbles* No wonder I'm giving up serious writing for a Green Lantern/WarCraft crossover, what with you people and your concept of diplomacy.

CmdrWilkens wrote:Of course even with two nations combined your GDP won't support but 1/10th of the big guns any Imperium can afford so...that doesn't seem like much of a threat.

Our goal was never to win a hypothetical war. It's to fucking hurt whoever starts one with us. Good luck playing the part of an imperium when your watershed areas, agricultural areas and major cities just got nuked from orbit. 'Cause unless I've missed something the NFT ought to have the biggest orbital bomber fleet in the world by now.

And hey, you nuke me, you draw in CATO. So, uh, have fun with WW3?

Steve wrote:As for Siege, instead of going nasty over the Tian Xia base and talking about aiming missiles at Tian Jiao and such, you could see what price tag Tian Xia would put on scrapping that base. But nope, you're walking out and pretty much condemning yourself to having a MESS base straddling your vital line of communication between the two northern quadrants of Frequesue.

What, I'm supposed to mind-read what the fucking Tian Xian delegate wants me to do? Fuck him. I'm not going to play fucking hints at a world summit. He can come out and say what he wants, or he can fuck right off. He chose the latter option, so if it's nukes he wants it's nukes he'll get.

Believe me I'd have rather settled this some other way but Tian Xia's playing style rubs me in all the wrong places so at this stage I prefer to cut the game short and unleash global thermonuclear war than to give into any of their demands. I'm just about done being called a 'pissant nation', thank you very much.

Steve wrote:You know, at this point CATO and MESS deserve the opportunity to nuke each other into oblivion. You're all acting like petulant children at the summit. We were actually making progress with the Byzantine proposal, supported by Canissia, when you all suddenly decided to exchange a few more barbs and then start walking out of the summit.

Now, as for Shady: We implemented both unreal time and a slower time progression in-game to accommodate this summit and yet you walk out because nobody's posted a reply to the summit in a few days? A lot of us have lives outside of this game as well as other stories we want to tell in the game, it is unfair for you to decide that because a full response of some sort isn't issued by such and such time the summit is "dragging on".

Yuri stayed behind to handle the negotiations. I also left a Foreign minister to handle it.

Siege, RL diplomacy involves a lot of "reading between the lines", with diplomats, even statesmen, often not even saying outright what they want, and a lot of backroom dealing and vague conversationalism. (For instance, at the UN in 1949, Soviet ambassador Malik approached US ambassador Jessup about the Soviets being prepared to lift the Berlin Blockade by talking about the weather).

And Fin, while that's true for you two at least, your leaders visibly departing the summit in disgust still does damage, given that others have now withdrawn completely.

Steve wrote:And Fin, while that's true for you two at least, your leaders visibly departing the summit in disgust still does damage, given that others have now withdrawn completely.

We departed together during a recess.

Compared to the barbs being thrown about during the conference, what would a depiction of an anthropomorphization of the Old Dominion holding Vladimir Berman's severed head in her hand rate?

Um, not sure, as what are you getting at? Why would you depict them holding their own Foreign Minister's head? What's the message?

Steve wrote:Um, not sure, as what are you getting at? Why would you depict them holding their own Foreign Minister's head? What's the message?

The message? The Old Dominion does not approve of Vladimir's aggressive bluster, and if he doesn't take it easy, they'll have his head for making them look like a nation of belligerent twats.

Ah. Unfortunately it seems the OD does approve of it.

Steve wrote:Ah. Unfortunately it seems the OD does approve of it.

Yeah, that's gonna put her on "The List".

Beowulf, you're expecting San Dorado to attack your base? What?

Master_Baerne wrote:Beowulf, you're expecting San Dorado to attack your base? What?

If it comes to war, he'll almost certainly attempt to pound that base above the rest, given his rhetoric earlier.

SiegeTank wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:Of course even with two nations combined your GDP won't support but 1/10th of the big guns any Imperium can afford so...that doesn't seem like much of a threat.

Our goal was never to win a hypothetical war. It's to fucking hurt whoever starts one with us. Good luck playing the part of an imperium when your watershed areas, agricultural areas and major cities just got nuked from orbit. 'Cause unless I've missed something the NFT ought to have the biggest orbital bomber fleet in the world by now.

And hey, you nuke me, you draw in CATO. So, uh, have fun with WW3?

1) I never said anything about nuking you
2) Ummm, you might have missed the entire X-20x series program which has been running for nearly a decade at this point
3) How are you getting past the ridiculous net of IADS in Messamerica...oh AND do so without managing to destroy the watersheds of Alaska and Cascadia?
4) If you've got the world's largest or even second largest orbital/sub-orbital bomber fleet then offhand I can say the rest of your forces should be getting more than a week in the field every year for the cost relative to GDP of maintaining said fleet.

Steve wrote:Believe me I'd have rather settled this some other way but Tian Xia's playing style rubs me in all the wrong places so at this stage I prefer to cut the game short and unleash global thermonuclear war than to give into any of their demands. I'm just about done being called a 'pissant nation', thank you very much.

So you literally would rather have everyone die than try to actually play a bit of diplomacy? Did your new allies realize this before you signed on because I don't think "Fin, Shady, Shroom, PeZook, and Co are the type of players to nuke because they "don't like a playstyle."

CmdrWilkens wrote:How are you getting past the ridiculous net of IADS in Messamerica...

Use thousands of stealth 6000km plus ALCMs. Whohooo arms deals!!!

As for "read between the lines" - there's been too much of that during the pre-summit and start-summit days. Did that lead to anywhere? No. Either state your business or we shouldn't be wasting time.

Beowulf wrote:And why would I try to roll some tanks into San Dorado?

And why did you move your forces to Frequesue, just for the Hell of it? Tian Jiao was under no threat. Your shenanigans with Costa and further expansion into the NFT zone prompted a response, just as the shenanigans of your former pawn did in the AFSR. A former pawn I might remind everyone, who actually played gunboat games with nuclear weapons.

If you can't even file a simple question - not even directly formulated, maybe something like "What woudl it take to reduce CATO military presence in Frequesue, including installations A, B, C and D (remove one at your pleasure!)"... Kinda like that - I don't know what you expected honestly.

Besides, the Crimson Star had to conduct a very costly amphibious operation, military pacification and lots of rebuilding spending in the AFSR due to it's condition. The rights to Livorno Naval Base are considered quite valuable to the UCSR. So you either offer your COMPLETE withdrawal from Costa, collaborate on disposessing them from any WMDs they might have, or there won't be any talk.

A "reduced" presence of Tian Xia in Costa versus the loss of a long-term, long-time built-up naval base with all infrastructure is just not worth it.

Apparently Tian Xia's not actually in Costa, but rather is establishing a base in the terra nullius of Frequesue's Untamed Wilderness.

Steve wrote:Apparently Tian Xia's not actually in Costa, but rather is establishing a base in the terra nullius of Frequesue's Untamed Wilderness.

I don't think that aircraft carrier group has moved an inch off Costa's coast.

Me neither. There is a Tian Xia CVBG and TXAF assets operating either in Costa proper, or in immediate vinicity to offer support for Costa.

And Beowulf already has Tian Jiao in Frequesue, his attempts to have another military base there are just ridiculous and couldn't be seen as anything other than imperialism.