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Good to see this back, Stu, I've been looking forward to it. I do like the idea that you can now take it with you.
I don't think I'll be able to contribute much this time; too much going on in my life at the moment.

Looks like the QEs will have to be cat and trap then without the F-35.

MKSheppard wrote:So I wonder what the lure of Caesar's roman republic is? Near Zero tax rate?

The fact that it's up and running. He has territory, security forces, name recognition, de facto sovereignty, and a burgeoning economy already. He's been building up contacts for two thousand years even before the liberation of Hell, so he probably has extensive intel assets, and Jade Kim has been bringing him up to speed on modern society and technology, which he seems eager to exploit. Any competing nation-state at this stage in the game is starting from way back, and has a lot of catching-up to do; they might not even be able to lay claim to any territory and have that claim be recognized by anyone.

I'm not sure why you'd assume Julius Caesar would have an ultra-low tax rate anyway. The man would probably be keenly aware of the need to purchase weapons and build infrastructure in order to grow and defend his new Empire. That stuff doesn't come for free. He seems to command the loyalty of large groups in Rome (in all probability, much larger than he commanded in life, since his personal legend was so great), but even they won't work for free, nor would he probably ask them to. Citizens of New Rome would be expected to share in its prosperity but also to help in its upkeep.

Let Caesar have what is Caesar's

One thing that has me puzzled. On American currency it is written "In God we Trust". With that statement no longer holding true for the world of The Salvation War, how long would it take for the Treasury Department (as well as their international equals) to design and print new bills without that phrase on it, and could it be possible at one point to get a paragraph or a couple lines about the new currency design?

That's an interesting point. I imagine they would probably replace it with a new slogan rather than simply deleting it, since people would expect that. Perhaps something like "United We Stand". That's a phrase of similar length, and infinitely better sentiment. Or they could go with the classic: "E Pluribus Unum". Or they could sell it for advertising: "This coin has been brought to you by Pfizer".

Peptuck wrote:

Setesh wrote: Hitler(if he's not in heaven, most of the Third Reich leaders were believers, so it would be really weird but not unexpected to find them as God's military advisers)

Oh, if Hitler's in Hell, I'm sure there's going to be lots of people looking for him. Mostly from Mossad.

The people from Mossad are going to have to take a number next to the Poles, various nationalities of the successor Soviet states and so forth.

So I go the impression that humans are the largest population in Hell (or is that the orcs? Haven't really seen much of them around).

Darth Wong wrote:The fact that it's up and running. He has territory, security forces, name recognition, de facto sovereignty, and a burgeoning economy already.

So why is someone from the US moving to New Rome instead of New Florida, United States of Hell?

EDIT: I mean, name recognition of "it's Julius Caesar man!" only goes so far...

Peptuck wrote:

Setesh wrote: Hitler(if he's not in heaven, most of the Third Reich leaders were believers, so it would be really weird but not unexpected to find them as God's military advisers)

Oh, if Hitler's in Hell, I'm sure there's going to be lots of people looking for him. Mostly from Mossad.

It would be pretty hilarious to have a big search of Hell for Hitler, turning up absolutely nothing - and then he appears in one of the camps on the Phelan Plain, groaning about how much nicer Argentina is this time of year.

MKSheppard wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:The fact that it's up and running. He has territory, security forces, name recognition, de facto sovereignty, and a burgeoning economy already.

So why is someone from the US moving to New Rome instead of New Florida, United States of Hell?

EDIT: I mean, name recognition of "it's Julius Caesar man!" only goes so far...

Well for starters, New Florida doesn't exist yet. I'm sure the occupying powers will start to colonize with the deceased at some point, but as has been said previously, Caesar is the best-equipped to handle newcomers at the moment.

Now I feel bad for my grandma... she died shortly before the Message would have gone out, she's got no money

That brings up a question I've been meaning to ask for a while.

What ABOUT the people who DID lay down and die for 'The Message'?

THey are going to be in hell, probably after a few weeks and months in lava or slime, deciding that their decision may not have been the best one they ever had.

So what about all of THEIR assets back in Earth? Can they get them? Have they been seezed by the state? Are they considered traitors?

Guys, you forget the biggest advantage of Hell= WE HAVE FTL!

Let Ceaser build his republic- the stars are ours.

Chris OFarrell wrote:That brings up a question I've been meaning to ask for a while.

What ABOUT the people who DID lay down and die for 'The Message'?

THey are going to be in hell, probably after a few weeks and months in lava or slime, deciding that their decision may not have been the best one they ever had.

So what about all of THEIR assets back in Earth? Can they get them? Have they been seezed by the state? Are they considered traitors?

Traitors and their property belongs to their respective governments.

Pelranius wrote:

Peptuck wrote:

Setesh wrote: Hitler(if he's not in heaven, most of the Third Reich leaders were believers, so it would be really weird but not unexpected to find them as God's military advisers)

Oh, if Hitler's in Hell, I'm sure there's going to be lots of people looking for him. Mostly from Mossad.

The people from Mossad are going to have to take a number next to the Poles, various nationalities of the successor Soviet states and so forth.

So I go the impression that humans are the largest population in Hell (or is that the orcs? Haven't really seen much of them around).

Who gets Doctor Death? Ida Amin? Pol Pot?

Chris OFarrell wrote:What ABOUT the people who DID lay down and die for 'The Message'?

THey are going to be in hell, probably after a few weeks and months in lava or slime, deciding that their decision may not have been the best one they ever had.

So what about all of THEIR assets back in Earth? Can they get them? Have they been seezed by the state? Are they considered traitors?

I think considering them "traitors" might be a bit strong. I think they would be held in the same regard as someone who committed suicide, which is essentially what they did, except probably with a whole lot more derision for basically laying down and dying when God told them to.

I'm assuming the protesters who lay in front of the tank convoy, are Americans. May I ask what group they represent, and what they were protesting against? (Please make them Westboro Baptist Church members protesting against the efforts to liberate homosexuals and other "sinners" they think belong there.)

Sidewinder wrote:I'm assuming the protesters who lay in front of the tank convoy, are Americans. May I ask what group they represent, and what they were protesting against? (Please make them Westboro Baptist Church members protesting against the efforts to liberate homosexuals and other "sinners" they think belong there.)

Code Pink comes to mind.

I'd actually love to see what TSW's Code Pink was saying between the Message and the death of Satan...

It seems like Yahweh and his bunch have much better generals. This quick into their offensive, they seem to be doing most things right. Then again, they did have Hell getting its ass seriously kicked to learn from. I have a feeling humanity's going to be up for a much tougher fight.

Oh, and did anyone else catch that "reverse the polarity" quip? I dunno why, but I found that pretty funny.

JonB wrote:One thing that has me puzzled. On American currency it is written "In God we Trust". With that statement no longer holding true for the world of The Salvation War, how long would it take for the Treasury Department (as well as their international equals) to design and print new bills without that phrase on it, and could it be possible at one point to get a paragraph or a couple lines about the new currency design?

I've always been partial to "In Gold We Trust" being printed on money. I mean, it is money after all. Why not a little honesty?

Chris OFarrell wrote:That brings up a question I've been meaning to ask for a while.

What ABOUT the people who DID lay down and die for 'The Message'?

THey are going to be in hell, probably after a few weeks and months in lava or slime, deciding that their decision may not have been the best one they ever had.

So what about all of THEIR assets back in Earth? Can they get them? Have they been seezed by the state? Are they considered traitors?

My guess is that their property is treated like it would of been treated before the message. Mainly because the only change it requires from the legal system is recognising that dead people can still own things. Any other option would require more change from the legal system of whatever country they are in.

Though I wonder how many life insurance companies are refusing to payout on the grounds that the people who lay down and died basically committed suicide.

bilateralrope wrote:My guess is that their property is treated like it would of been treated before the message.

"Have" and "of" are not the same word, for fuck's sake. I hope English is not your first language.

Been getting a few of those lately.

Regarding the Mossad/Hitler thing, I think the last chapter of the previous book was clear: they want it more. And really, no one nurses a grudge like THAT one.

Message Followers essentially collaborated with the enemy, but this was before the open declaration of war by Earth powers, so it doesn't really hold. Anyway, these people have an enternity to slap their foreheads and say 'd'oh!'

Washing giant carboys at work gives me a lot of time to think about things, like "How could I create an addicting a board game where the players work cooperatively instead of competitively" and "what are the internal politics of Heaven like."

Warning: wild speculation ahead.

Yahweh has been using a LOT of energy as of late for moving and supercharging storms. We know he gets this energy by harvesting the life-force-thingy from his celestial choir. Supposedly, unless that got retconned in the editing process, that energy is used to boost the dying angels to the next higher dimensional-level-thingy. Yahweh seems to be able to harvest the energy more efficiently than Satan could with the endless torturing, but he also has a much smaller crop of humans to harvest. It's "renewable" energy to the extent that dead humans keep producing it somehow, and it seems that it can be stored away, but the supply is still finite.

Yahweh is a giant prick and probably doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything else, but that doesn't mean that he's stupid. He may have been storing up energy for a long time in anticipation for doing the Message thing and so there might be plenty of stores left to placate his minions while still smashing up stuff on Earth. But what if he's draining them pretty dry? Even loyal angels could start getting a little nervous when they start to worry about promises not being kept. A short term, stop-gap solution might be to make the dead humans sing harder (or...something; I have no idea how that would work) but enough exertion and damage can kill the dead, and if they start falling over that would mean even less potential energy for harvesting.

We haven't seen enough of Yahweh to know how stupid, short-sighted, selfish, or whatever he actually is. He may be smarter than to do something like that, but Michael and others like him might be wondering about this themselves and making plans for what to do, just in case. Worst case scenario might be another civil war in Heaven.

Warning: even wilder speculation ahead.

So, what's so special about humans that anything past quickening that dies gets zapped to Hell even though there are many creatures on Earth who have intelligence up to that of a six year old human? Could be that when Yahweh and Co. showed up from...wherever the heck they came from originally, Planet Kolob or something...they did some metaphysical voodoo so that human souls would end up in their bubble dimensions and they left out the elephants and gray parrots and bonobos and so forth.

Or maybe they actually are also arriving in Hell (and/or Heaven) but their numbers are too few or their arrival location sufficiently far away that no one among the viewpoint characters has really noticed yet.

THE LEVIATHANS ARE FEEDING ON THE SOULS OF DEAD WHALES!

Man, they must be really hungry these days, what with the much smaller whale populations and all. Also, I doubt I will ever be able to use that line again.


While I'm here, I hope that wasn't a knock on Corollas. They are sweet little cars. If cars were dogs, they'd be the nice little dogs that are quick and nimble and clever and know a lot of tricks and are super-loyal. You wouldn't want them guarding a maximum security prison but they're good with little kids. Also those new gas mileage standards people are complaining about? I already get that.

Also mine talks when I drive too long to the point of auditory hallucinations. She said her name is Evo. I told her that was a Hispanic guy's name and she said that maybe she was manufactured in Brazil and don't knock her personal gender identity with my narrow organic definitions and I think I should go take a shower now before I say anything weirder.

I'm pretty sure Stuart would have picked a Corolla because it's the biggest selling(all series) car ever after the F-Truck.

ROFLMFAO I don't know why, but watching people behave lie people is bloody fabulous.

Stuart, this episode is a winner! <Uploading a glass of Laphroaig with a single drop of water>

Setesh wrote:Hitler(if he's not in heaven

As no one has been admitted to heaven for a millennia, Hitler would not be there. Yahweh's idea of an ideal follower seems to be one who surrenders their will to him totally. I suspect Hitler was not that kind of individual.

He's in Hell, and I suspect the Mossad would be very interested in finding him. Other agencies not quite so much, though if they happened to find him they would probably take action

It's not obvious that either Satan or Yahweh have magic-capacitors. "Storing" magic-ness may not be possible.

Samuel wrote:Ancestor Worship just changed in a big way. If your dead ancestors decide to look out for you and say... send money from hell... China is going to get a big boost

In fact, any society which has a extreme sense of obligation to your children is going to get a large boost from the deceased sending money to their relatives.

Which kinda reminds me, does the belief of burning paper money holds any water in this story? If that's the case, the Chinese would be extremely rich compared to others.

Extremely.

He's probably off in some lower demons castle getting the Little Nicky treatment.