Red Alert 2 popularized Red Alert as being about Big Camp, and there's nothing wrong with that - if RA2 hadn't done that, what would be the compelling reason for even continuing the series? Red Alert was fun, but it was nothing more than a mission pack for C&C with different units. At least Red Alert 2 did something interesting and outlandish with the setting - and it really worked, IMO.
And I liked Red Alert 3. Mmmm, cosplay outfits ...
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-07-31 01:17pm
by Srelex
Red Alert 1's attempt to be all 'serious' for me failed due to silly stuff like teleporting tanks and invincibility machines appearing in the '50s, because of...er...time travel. I actually appreciate the deliberate sillyness of the sequels, simply for making a chance from the pretentious GIMDARK SEEREUS shit polluting games (and more besides).
But, er, we've gone into the wrong franchise. To get back on track, how long does a skirmish on, say, easy last?
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-07-31 01:27pm
by Temjin
Balrog wrote:I'm a bit curious to know if the manual is any good. The first one came out back when computer game manuals were almost books in and of themselves, and was similarly packed with lots of interesting stuff. Is the same true for the sequel, or do we get some crappy twelve-page pamphlet?
The manual is... okay. It does what it has to. But the only fluff you're getting is a recap of the first game's story, and a few paragraphs about what's happened since then. No details about the units, characters or organisations. It's about the size of the average console game manual.
Re: Starcraft 2 cinematic trailer
Posted: 2010-07-31 06:56pm
by Iosef Cross
adam_grif wrote:
Iosef Cross wrote:If Sc II is better than C&C 3 and SupCom, it is at least the best RTS in the last 5 years.
C&C4 is C&C in name only, and SupCom 2 gutted and destroyed everything that was good about the first one, and forgot to replace it with other good things.
Good that I never took the time to play these things.
Also, Company of Heroes came out in 2006, so it can't be the "best in 5 years"
Never played it.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-07-31 08:18pm
by Thanas
Pelranius wrote:Dr. Hansen goes off to live with the rest of the Haven colonists if you save her. I suspect that Blizzard will make the Hansen and Tosh missions canonical, if those two ever get referenced again.
I really liked the mission with Nova. Nice to see Blizzard not having abandoned that character.
Balrog wrote:I'm a bit curious to know if the manual is any good. The first one came out back when computer game manuals were almost books in and of themselves, and was similarly packed with lots of interesting stuff. Is the same true for the sequel, or do we get some crappy twelve-page pamphlet?
Well, no. The manual per se does not have a lot of that stuff. However, you can clearly see a lot of interesting material in cutscenes and screeens...for Example, Korhal now is very densely populated with megacities like Coruscant and floating islands etc...
*****************
I have now played through the game and I have to say...I really, really like it. Best RTS IMO since...well, Starcraft 1. I liked the story, I liked all the little jokes and usage of characters....
And the mission design is really, really good. Best one of the last years. The game also runs very stable, no crashes so far. I also like some of the new characters. Matt Horner, for example. Some of the stuff was also just hilarious, like the News broadcast which seem like a perfect caricature of Fox News.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-07-31 09:31pm
by White Haven
I was sorta disappointed in the latter news broadcasts, actually. They had that whole 'I had a brother on Tarsonis...' bit, and then a couple missions later he was back fan-whoring for Mengsk.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-07-31 10:14pm
by Norade
White Haven wrote:I was sorta disappointed in the latter news broadcasts, actually. They had that whole 'I had a brother on Tarsonis...' bit, and then a couple missions later he was back fan-whoring for Mengsk.
Did you miss the fact that Fox does exactly that, they cry crocodile tears for a bit and then go back to the same thing. That makes it even more realistic IMO.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-07-31 11:39pm
by Narkis
White Haven wrote:I was sorta disappointed in the latter news broadcasts, actually. They had that whole 'I had a brother on Tarsonis...' bit, and then a couple missions later he was back fan-whoring for Mengsk.
That depends on the order that you finished the missions. I postponed the mission to expose Mengsk for as long as I could, and a broadcast or two after the "brother in Tarsonis" one, the voice-of-reason reporter became an anchorwoman after propaganda guy had a mental breakdown. I suspect there's a relation.
Thanas wrote:I really liked the mission with Nova. Nice to see Blizzard not having abandoned that character.
Same here. I clicked the button to take her side almost on reflex.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 12:04am
by Pelranius
Trying to figure out what is canon is beginning to drive me crazy.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 01:25am
by Gaidin
Pelranius wrote:Trying to figure out what is canon is beginning to drive me crazy.
On the bright side. They've avoided their old warcraft method where the campaigns are "parallel but opposite"(i lack a better way to describe it) and each side would win the overall conflict as opposed to that section of it. Figuring out what's canon there between three races would suck.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 02:17am
by Commander Xillian
I always sucked at Starcraft, not sure why. I guess I could never really get the hang of it..
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 03:32am
by Pelranius
Spoiler
I expect that Mira will have a long talk with Matt in Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the Void.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 04:06am
by Thanas
Narkis wrote:
Thanas wrote:I really liked the mission with Nova. Nice to see Blizzard not having abandoned that character.
Same here. I clicked the button to take her side almost on reflex.
Not that it was much of a choice anyway when the other choice is a mentally unstable psychopath.
Pelranius wrote:Spoiler
I expect that Mira will have a long talk with Matt in Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the Void.
Heh. Guess some poker games are just not worth it.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 09:04am
by dragon
Think the best so far is the vodoo doll cutscene.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 10:52am
by Gaidin
Thanas wrote:
Not that it was much of a choice anyway when the other choice is a mentally unstable psychopath.
Did anybody other than me go with him? I'll admit it was out of total curiosity to see what the Spectres were like. But still...
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 11:15am
by White Haven
To be fair, all you know about Tosh at that point is that he's A) Secretive, and B) Nova says he's an unstable psychopath. Since she's the one who's been running around locking up Spectres, she's got just as much of a reason to lie to you as Tosh does. Possibly more so, given that she's an enemy assassin, and you're trying to add an army of non-Dominion-loyalist Ghostettes to your rebel band. Sure, it turns out she was being straight with you and Tosh wasn't, but at the time of the mission selection there was no corroboration for the destabilizing aspects of the Spectre program; it was her word against Tosh's. Given that both of them are spies...
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 11:35am
by Gaidin
Tosh also doesn't do anything to give you a reason to regret helping him either.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 01:00pm
by Darksider
Gaidin wrote:Tosh also doesn't do anything to give you a reason to regret helping him either.
Yeah. Nova claims he's an unstable psychopath, but by that point, he only seems like a money-grubbing bastard with some weird voodoo fascination. Does Tosh do anything to live up to the "unstable psychopath" moniker if you choose him instead of Nova?
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 01:14pm
by White Haven
Nope, doesn't even trigger a cinematic, you just get Spectres instead of Ghosts. Sure, he feels like more of a self-serving dick, but nothing to the point of LOLpsycho.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 02:30pm
by Hawkwings
If you pick Tosh, then later Dr. Hansen tells you that Nova was lying.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 02:33pm
by Morilore
Hmm, maybe if I post this in chunks, it'll work?
Finished the single-player campaign yesterday. My reactions:
1. "Normal" difficulty is really, really easy. I mean, I was half-asleep during the last couple of missions and I didn't even start to worry.
2. I like how there are just not enough credits to get all the armory upgrades and all the mercenaries. It would be kind of lame if the only choice in that department was in when to get which things.
3. The plot. Not impressed.
EDIT: I have a big chunk of text related to the plot in spoiler tags, but I can't post it for some reason.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 02:36pm
by Pelranius
What really ticks me off about the missions choices is that the choice you make is always right, except for maybe choosing Selendis, though just a little bit.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 02:39pm
by White Haven
Oh, really, Hawkwings? I did Hanson's plot first, so I missed that part.
The research tree was WAY too damned short and shallow, though. I was juts cashing in research points for isk halfway through the campaign, more or less. It would have benefited heavily from having a second half of the tree, one that combined both Protoss and Zerg points or something along those lines.
As far as the lack of branching that matters, no argument there. I can see why, when they're planning two more campaigns after this one, but it still feels cheap.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 02:43pm
by Morilore
Edit: Yay, it worked! Spoiler
(This next paragraph relates to the optional Zeratul missions.) So it's obvious that they're going for the Generic Blizzard Plot where a bunch of enemies have to Put Aside Old Hatreds and band together to fight the Enemies of All Life. Nothing necessarily wrong with a formula, but the execution has to be good. The bar is pretty low for a video game plot. The thing that undermines this is the fact that they already did that exact thing, in vanilla Starcraft. Now that they're doing it again, it's like they have to retroactively undermine the old villains in order to make the new villains look more serious. I mean, the Overmind was a good guy? WTC? Oh, I get it, the Burning Legion Xel'Naga enslaved the Orcish Horde Zerg Swarm to carry out their bidding, but a bright young leader named Thrall Kerrigan will lead them to salvation. It might work, but you have to fit square pegs into round holes to make it work. You have to do violence to the original idea behind the Overmind and the original nature of the Zerg.
Not to mention the way it's kind of implied that when they break the demonic curse remove Kerrigan's Zerg parts, she is turned into a good person somehow. I hope they don't go all the way this route in the next two installments. Kerrigan's evil in Brood War felt like a human evil, a clear contrast to the Overmind before her. She wanted revenge on the people who betrayed her. She wanted to rule the Zerg as the Zerg once ruled her. She wanted to be the mighty conqueror instead of the eternal victim. She was cynical and ruthless in the way that human dictators are.
Also, Raynor. Raynor signed off in Brood War with the words "It may not be tomorrow, darling. It may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured: I'm the man who's going to kill you someday. I'll be seeing you." He hated her for murdering Fenix and he saw her as an irredeemable monster. But in this game, by a certain point it's almost taken for granted that he prefers to save her. It's other characters who say "she needs to die for what she's done," not Raynor. I'd buy Raynor having an inner conflict and eventually setting aside his anger, but he should at least try to make a show of it.
Re: Starcraft 2 discussion thread
Posted: 2010-08-01 03:42pm
by Thanas
Hawkwings wrote:If you pick Tosh, then later Dr. Hansen tells you that Nova was lying.
She does? Huh.
Then I have to wonder why Blizzard does everything to make the Spectres appear psychopathic. For example, when you select one, you get "I feel your fear" etc.
Also, Tosh appears pretty psychopathic in the cutscene following the freeing of the prisoners (there IS one, it is called A better tomorrow).
Still, wonder what they will do with Nova in the expansions, given how she chooses to follow you on the Hyperion (she appears in the armory if you watch the Ghost Rifle for about half a minute or so).
