Mega-storm Sandy

[Beowulf]

Yeah, it's 84% for the entire multinational system. Weather data isn't really all that sensitive, so it's all shared. I can pull images from European metsats as easily as from US ones. Most of the early detection of tropical storms is from geostationary satellite analysis. I'm not all that great at it, but the guys at NHC and JTWC are pretty good.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I'm certainly concerned about the safety of important artifacts around New York, including the Space Shuttle. It's just when you have a storm that causes TWENTY BILLION dollars of damage, including turning most of the mass transit system into the world's largest water floom, we need to have priorities.

I figured I would spring board off this one.

There are probably going to be a LOT of dead people in that water floom. The official body is low. A large portion of the homeless population lives in the massive undercroft of the city. The sewers, the tunnel systems for municipal sewage and gas lines etc. Last I checked, at least 5000 of them in NYC alone and that is just the "mole people", to say nothing of the other homeless people with no means of getting out.

[Alkaloid]

That is a truly hideous thing to to have to think about. Was there any attempt made to evacuate/warn that segment of the population that anyone knows of, because if not an awfully large number of people could have retreated there actually looking for safety.

[Zaune]

That is a truly hideous thing to to have to think about. Was there any attempt made to evacuate/warn that segment of the population that anyone knows of, because if not an awfully large number of people could have retreated there actually looking for safety.

Somehow I doubt it.

[Broomstick]

That is a truly hideous thing to to have to think about. Was there any attempt made to evacuate/warn that segment of the population that anyone knows of, because if not an awfully large number of people could have retreated there actually looking for safety.

There were probably some token efforts made. Certainly, there were announcements regarding the closing of the subway. "Homeless" doesn't mean deaf or blind, they certainly were exposed to a multitude of warnings.

Part of the problem, though, is that a significant segment of that population wants to be unseen and unknown. Some of them are cognizant enough to get the hell out of tunnels and low-lying areas. Drug addicts, alcoholics, and the anti-social can be functional enough to self-evacuate. Unfortunately, another group is so disconnected from reality due to mental illness, and a certain segment of the druggies too fucked up, that there is a high likelihood they were down there during the flood. If they were able to outrun the rising water - possible for those near stations at least in some circumstances - they might have survived. But yes, no doubt some people were drowned in the tunnels. Given the sheer number of people in NYC the death toll could be significant... although some bodies might not be found for a long time.

[Broomstick]

Link to New Jersey shore devastation. Is it just me, or does some of this look like Katrina?

Of course, couple major differences between this and Katrina is that less of the territory was below sea level, and the area is wealthier. It does make a difference.

[Slacker]

That is a truly hideous thing to to have to think about. Was there any attempt made to evacuate/warn that segment of the population that anyone knows of, because if not an awfully large number of people could have retreated there actually looking for safety.

There were probably some token efforts made. Certainly, there were announcements regarding the closing of the subway. "Homeless" doesn't mean deaf or blind, they certainly were exposed to a multitude of warnings.

Part of the problem, though, is that a significant segment of that population wants to be unseen and unknown. Some of them are cognizant enough to get the hell out of tunnels and low-lying areas. Drug addicts, alcoholics, and the anti-social can be functional enough to self-evacuate. Unfortunately, another group is so disconnected from reality due to mental illness, and a certain segment of the druggies too fucked up, that there is a high likelihood they were down there during the flood. If they were able to outrun the rising water - possible for those near stations at least in some circumstances - they might have survived. But yes, no doubt some people were drowned in the tunnels. Given the sheer number of people in NYC the death toll could be significant... although some bodies might not be found for a long time.

Some bodies may never be found, period. There are sections of tunnel that are abandoned or functionally sealed off completely in some places that the NYPD believes a population will occasionally live in. They're not going to send their officers in there when it's functionally a completely alien environment. I know a guy who was NYPD for a couple of decades, was a first responder on 9/11, the whole bit. The only time he got as scared as he was on 9/11 was when he chased a guy into a section of tunnel like that and shit got weird.

A fair fraction of the homeless probably heard the warnings-the guys on the streets are too connected with city life to not get the warnings-hell, a fair number of them have either cell phones or laptops (no, I'm not kidding). Its the actual mole people population, which doesn't come above ground very often if at all, that would be an issue.

And the biggest difference between Jersey/NY and Louisiana is the quality of the emergency response and infrastructure support people. No offense to anyone who may be a first responder from that neck of the woods, but we've got guys with much better training and equipment (Partially, yes, a function of money) and, yes, more money to spend to fix things faster.

[ryacko]

This discussion reminds me of Nolan's Gotham's catacombs.

And the biggest difference between Jersey/NY and Louisiana is the quality of the emergency response and infrastructure support people. No offense to anyone who may be a first responder from that neck of the woods, but we've got guys with much better training and equipment (Partially, yes, a function of money) and, yes, more money to spend to fix things faster.

The damage would be easier to repair as well, since your city isn't below sealevel. Otherwise you'll have to plug the holes, and drain the floodwaters, which after long enough, would rot many buildings. This might be a problem though for the subway systems, as the electrical equipment is probably water logged and/or corroded.

Its the actual mole people population, which doesn't come above ground very often if at all, that would be an issue.

How do they eat? It becomes a bit baffling, they have to come up some time, or there must be some source of trade.

[Broomstick]

Ratburgers?

More realistically - dumpster diving. Subways have trash receptacles, and those that don't... well, littering.

[Channel72]

The south shore of Long Island (especially Long Beach) was really massacred, and the Brooklyn Battery tunnel is completely flooded apparently. The major bridges are open though. Still, the Long Island Rail Road, NJ transit and the NYC subways are still not operational.

I just drove around Long Island trying to find an Internet connection. Trees and powerlines are down everywhere. Finally found an open Dunkin Donuts...

[Dalton]

Bloomberg is saying that partial service on the subway and LIRR should be restored today. School closings are beginning to come in for tomorrow now. Not sure what I'm doing...

Channel72, whereabouts are you on the island? What are the road conditions like?

[Slacker]

There are parts of Long Island that are already operational-central Brookhaven (I'm in Centereach) is pretty much back to normal today, hell I went out to dinner last night and it was like a normal Tuesday. We got fucking lucky around Bald Hill, let's just put it that way. A power substation in Bayshore blew out last night, so that's delaying power restoration along the South Shore. Port Jeff got hammered, I know Coram into Ridge is starting to come back online. The area around Lake Ronkonkoma was pretty well intact. Nassau seems to have gotten hit harder in some ways, Merrick was flooded still although North Bellmore where another friend lives seems ok.

And to be honest...nobody really knows how the 'mole people' survive. Sure, dumpster diving, but...yeah, it's one of those real unexplained, uncomfortable things that nobody talks about.

[Dalton]

I saw images of Massapequa and they got hammered pretty hard. I can't even imagine what's going on with people I know down south of Rockville Centre in places like Oceanside and Bellmore around by the canals.

[Slacker]

From what I saw of Babylon and Lindenhurst-same idea, 27A runs right along the water basically and there are all sorts of canals and ponds and what have you-it's not going to be good. Babylon got shellacked.

[Dalton]

Everything south of Sunrise Highway, basically. Man, I wonder when I'll be able to make it home.

[Broomstick]

And to be honest...nobody really knows how the 'mole people' survive.

Let's face the ugly truth here - even in normal times without extreme storms and flooding some of them don't survive.

[Channel72]

Bloomberg is saying that partial service on the subway and LIRR should be restored today. School closings are beginning to come in for tomorrow now. Not sure what I'm doing...

Channel72, whereabouts are you on the island? What are the road conditions like?

I'm in Selden in Suffolk Country right now. Just drove here from Newark NJ. The major expressways and bridges onto the island aren't bad. The GWB and the Throgs Neck are open. The Cross Bronx Expy had heavy traffic, but that's not unusual. On the Island, the Northern State is okay. The worst roads I've seen are the local roads along the north shore - 25A is pretty bad. Trees and powerlines are down - and most of the traffic lights aren't working.

In the middle of the island in the Centerreach/Selden area along Middle Country Road, it's a lot better. The traffic lights are working and most things are open.

Back in NJ, a couple of transformers exploded in downtown Newark, knocking the power out for a while. But I hear it's back now. Obviously downtown Manhattan experienced heavy flooding, and first avenue is basically fucked for a while. The last I heard the Midtown Tunnel and Holland were closed, but the Lincoln is open with major delays.

[Slacker]

Everything south of Sunrise Highway, basically. Man, I wonder when I'll be able to make it home.

Yeah, Sunrise Highway is pretty much the breakpoint between the coast and 'inland', or so it seems.

@Broomstick: Very true.

@Channel: Yeah, some areas around here never lost power and most of the rest of us got it back very quickly. If you're on Long Island and you need some sort of normalcy, Selden/Centereach is the best bet. The wife and I are going out to pick up some groceries and things in a bit.
How do I know Selden's fine? The local gaming store is open. Warhammer Wednesday is unharmed.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Down here, Washington DC did not get hit that bad. Some localized power outages, but for the most part it seems that we were JUST far enough south to avoid the brunt of things. Though from my understanding Baltimore, just up the interstate, got hammered, and Philadelphia/Delaware not far beyond that. Honestly, at least from my apartment it really didn't manifest as anything but a heavy rain, even the winds were not that abnormally high. I mostly just played Assassin's Creed III and watched sports.

In any case, hope everyone up north is doing well. Some of the pictures from New York are scary.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Hi ! We have power back in South County RI thanks to BBC electricity from Missouri (their linesmen work like devils) but no cable; I' m logging in from work. I've been really busy with a chainsaw the past two days since I live in a very very rural part of one of the more rural counties in this very small state. Apparently I am the only person in the entire state who treats an out stoplight as a stopsign, as other people all blow through them and honk at me when I come to a complete stop, but, the damage wasn't really severe inland. Some roads are still closed and some areas inland are still without power, but the Guard's out and they're working very aggressively.

[Broomstick]

Glad to hear you're OK, Marina. Be careful with the chainsaw (yes, yes, I know you are anyway, it's my maternal streak, I'll go put it away again now).

My area sent one batch of linemen and utility guys to the East last Saturday. The ones we held back in case we had severe outages and flooding (which, thank goodness, we didn't) left this morning to lend their aid. Among the people sent are the crews that build, maintain, and repair Chicago's underground infrastructure which have had experience in pumping out and rehabbing subway and other tunnels thanks to the Chicago Leak of 1992. Damage that time included blown electrical sub-stations, trashed communications cables, and the entire city's subway underwater along with building basements so it was similar, albeit on a much smaller scale than what is currently happening in NYC. I hope ya'll are finding their help useful.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Apparently I am the only person in the entire state who treats an out stoplight as a stopsign, as other people all blow through them and honk at me when I come to a complete stop

You are getting it wrong. EVERYONE in the state treats out stoplights as stop signs, but nobody in Rhode Island treats stop signs as more than a gentle suggestion.

Ah, nothing like memories of Rhode Island drivers to make me homesick.

[Dominus Atheos]

Hi ! We have power back in South County RI thanks to BBC electricity from Missouri (their linesmen work like devils) but no cable;

BBC?

[Serafina]

Glad to hear that you are okay! And be careful not to get run over by anyone.

[phongn]

Hi ! We have power back in South County RI thanks to BBC electricity from Missouri (their linesmen work like devils) but no cable;

BBC?

BBC Electrical