StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:That's a V-wing airspeeder, first seen in Dark Empire. What's seen in RotS is a completely unrelated V-wing starfighter.

Hmph. I get the feeling Lucas didn't like that particular portion of the EU.

On the contrary, Dark Empire is Lucas' favourite entry of the EU.

Was the opening battle taking place in a ballistic orbit or were they simply hanging in space using repulsors? This problem has plagued me for a few months, now, and the movie offers little resolution. I would say that it is, but the anomalous dive of the Invisible Hand seems to muck up that thought.

How does the Holonet work? Is it an application of hyperdrive technology? I can only assume hyperspace is involved if people from all over the galaxy can chat it up in real time.

So does this mean that travel through hyperspace for things like light and transmission signals is instantaneous? Are ships merely restricted by how powerfully their engines can shunt them through?

Darth Raptor wrote:How does the Holonet work? Is it an application of hyperdrive technology? I can only assume hyperspace is involved if people from all over the galaxy can chat it up in real time.

So does this mean that travel through hyperspace for things like light and transmission signals is instantaneous? Are ships merely restricted by how powerfully their engines can shunt them through?

As I recall, its not instantaneous, its just so fast that response lag isnt noticable excpet outside a very extreme range.

The Holonet uses hyperwave transmissions, with signals that travel through Hyperspace.

And isn't strictly neccesary since trans-galactic realtime communication is possible point-to-point, as seen in AOTC.

Pure Sabacc wrote: As I recall, its not instantaneous, its just so fast that response lag isnt noticable excpet outside a very extreme range.

I had noticed that when Obi-Wan is contacted by Organa, there seems to be just a brief bit of lag in their response times. Of course, that could just be me.

One thing I wondered. Where the heck does the VSD fit in things? I thought it was used towards the end of the clone wars as 'the ultimate weapon', yet we get Venators, not Victories. Since VSD is EU, I suppose three explainations.

1. It doesn't exist. Replaced by the pointier Venator.
2. It was deployed in a place we didn't see. Coruscant doesn't like Victories.
3. It's built AFTER the Clone Wars, and enjoys being phased out in less than five-ten years.

kheegan wrote:Unless I read the ICS wrongly, the Jedi starfighters do not have shields, so the buzzdroids' ability to penetrate shields is a moot point.

I thought the Delta-7 in AOTC had Shields, thus the 'flak' effect of Slave 1's blasters?

Nephtys wrote:

kheegan wrote:Unless I read the ICS wrongly, the Jedi starfighters do not have shields, so the buzzdroids' ability to penetrate shields is a moot point.

I thought the Delta-7 in AOTC had Shields, thus the 'flak' effect of Slave 1's blasters?

Delta-7s do have shields, but the Jedi fighters in RotS are not Deltas (save Plo Koon's.)

Nephtys wrote:One thing I wondered. Where the heck does the VSD fit in things? I thought it was used towards the end of the clone wars as 'the ultimate weapon', yet we get Venators, not Victories. Since VSD is EU, I suppose three explainations.

1. It doesn't exist. Replaced by the pointier Venator.
2. It was deployed in a place we didn't see. Coruscant doesn't like Victories.
3. It's built AFTER the Clone Wars, and enjoys being phased out in less than five-ten years.

The Victory is a class that slightly preceeds the Venator.

Hardy wrote:Was the opening battle taking place in a ballistic orbit or were they simply hanging in space using repulsors? This problem has plagued me for a few months, now, and the movie offers little resolution. I would say that it is, but the anomalous dive of the Invisible Hand seems to muck up that thought.

Well, for one thing (disabling SoD) every ship doesn't act like it would in real space, for example, weaving and turning like normal aircraft or being powered up in low orbit. So, don't expect much sense made out when the Invisible Hand falls for the first time.

Enabling SoD, they were all on repulsors, and most, if not all, were powered up (in several scenes we can see the engines lit). The first dive of the Invisible Hand is due to "wonky artificial gravity generators" (as said by the VD), Anakin and Palpatine were running on the wall of the turbolift, but in the bridge everyone was still more of less standing as if it were a normal room.

Macross wrote: Two possibilities
1) It will undergo a major refit sometime in the next 20 years.
2) Bail Organa really likes the name Tantive IV and names all his ships that.

I think I'll go with possibility number 1...

Excellent compilation, Vympel! However:

Vympel wrote:25. Order 66: Palpatine’s message to the Clones is undoubtedly a recording. It is the same message, sounding exactly the same, everytime we see a Clone receive it. This is to be expected, for obvious reasons. The only time he sent it personally was to Cody, obviously because Cody is Obi-Wan’s 2IC.

I don't think it's a recording. It makes perfect sense that Palpatine would make personal contact with the clone commanders serving under members of the Jedi Council, as they are the greatest threats towards him. Since we only see the messages that are sent out to those commanders, there could be some other means by which the others are contacted. The messages aren't exactly the same either.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

YT300000 wrote:

Macross wrote: Two possibilities
1) It will undergo a major refit sometime in the next 20 years.
2) Bail Organa really likes the name Tantive IV and names all his ships that.

Does it say anywhere that its the Tantive IV? It could be an earlier number, using an earlier model.

Virtually every source that mentions it says that it's the same ship seen in Episode IV.

Apart from the hangar bay (I can't get any screenshots showing the underside of the Ep4 model in sufficient detail), the engines and/or reactor have been upgraded from that Republic-era 'pulse' effect.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Nephtys wrote:One thing I wondered. Where the heck does the VSD fit in things? I thought it was used towards the end of the clone wars as 'the ultimate weapon', yet we get Venators, not Victories. Since VSD is EU, I suppose three explainations.

1. It doesn't exist. Replaced by the pointier Venator.
2. It was deployed in a place we didn't see. Coruscant doesn't like Victories.
3. It's built AFTER the Clone Wars, and enjoys being phased out in less than five-ten years.

The Victory is a class that slightly preceeds the Venator.

Though it's speculative, I'd add that the VSD doesn't have the same planetary combat support capabilities as the Venator class. And the Jedi seem to favor the latter, given their roles as generals in the conflict. The VSDs would be better suited for pure space combat, with limited or no ground support.

Stark wrote:And isn't strictly neccesary since trans-galactic realtime communication is possible point-to-point, as seen in AOTC.

Its not that simple; one of the transcievers must a thoroughly enormous array to pick up the weak signals of a small one and send powerful ones the small one can capture. Not to mention its difficult with ships, where your transcievers must be pointing in the right direction and know where the recipient is.

Stark wrote:

And isn't strictly necessary since trans-galactic real-time communication is possible point-to-point, as seen in AOTC.

While that is true, we know that the range must be dependent upon the the transmitting vessel's power output, because...

AOTC:ICS p. 3

Hyperwaves: supralight signals for real-time transgalactic communications through public HoloNet relays. Hyperwave transceivers require all most stellar-scale power, yet signals can be blocked by nearby massive obstructions or by deflector shielding.

Nearly stellar power, so around 1.1E20W the solar luminosity of a E0 star – smallest star capable of fusion. Well beyond the power of starfighters and most small ship's such as the Naboo diplomatic barge and yacht.

ROTS:ICS P. 28

To provide transgalactic communications, they installed a hyperwave reflector akin to the secret Jedi homing devices.

This is from the entry on Palpatine's tricked out shuttle. While it does have a hyperwave transceiver, it doesn't have intergalactic range because...

ROTS: ICS P. 30

Yoda deactivates his pod's tell-tale distress beacon, relying solely on his Jedi emergency transmitter. This pocket gadget reflects a tiny fraction of the supralight signals beamed between the Republic's public HoloNet relays. Encrypted modulation of these reflected signals transmits the owner's ID and location.

Here we find out that that Palpatine's shuttle actually has to makes use of the HoloNet, for transgalactic ranged communications. This is the Galactic Emperors private shuttle; it undoubtedly has the best technology available installed onboard. Note that the shuttle has a neutrino-based shield radiation system; something not seen on any other size comparable vessel in ICS. If it doesn't have a transgalactic range communications suite, then we can be damn sure that Obi-Wan didn't in ATOC. Of course we already knew this, because...

AOTC:ICS P. 10

In an emergency, Kenobi's ships can relay encrypted signals via any suitably powerful hyperwave transceiver located in the same planetary system. During the mission to Genosis, Obi-Wan uses a powerful interstellar relay station in the Geonosis system to communicate with Anakin on Tatooine.

Now Obi-Wan's long range transmitter was out; but even so his backup transmitter still needed to use the HoloNet to reach Tatooine a mere 3 light years or so away. So even if you have a site-to-site hyperwave transceiver you still need serious power to go transgalactic. Take the TF Battleship for instance.

AOTC: ICS p. 19

Faster-than-light "hyperwave" transceiver reaches any part of the galaxy directly without using the public HoloNet relays.

From this a TF Battleship can apparently communicate directly with anywhere in the galaxy. With a power output of 3.0E24W, we might assume that's true except...

ROTS: ICS p. 14-15

The miserly Intergalactic Banking Clan distrusts the public-access HoloNet, and uses its own space stations and armed communications ships to relay signals and account keys secretly.

Long range hyperwave transceiver mast can establish communications links anywhere in the galaxy.

The banking clan's Munificent-class star frigates are combat-communications ships, which assist with the navigation and coordination of Seperatist fleets deep in hostile space. Powerful antennae channel hyperwave supralight transceivers, while jamming devices hinder enemy sensors and targeting systems.

Even if you have the signal power to reach your destination, your signal can be easily blocked or jammed. Can you communicate across the entire galaxy, without the HoloNet? It depends, in theory, yes; but in most practical cases no.

That said you have to have a ship with a military grade reactor core to power the thing.

Warspite wrote:Well, for one thing (disabling SoD) every ship doesn't act like it would in real space, for example, weaving and turning like normal aircraft or being powered up in low orbit. So, don't expect much sense made out when the Invisible Hand falls for the first time.

Fair enough. There's still no reason to believe that flying like an aircraft is a physically unrealistic, though. Just a pointless waste of fuel.

Enabling SoD, they were all on repulsors, and most, if not all, were powered up (in several scenes we can see the engines lit).

Okay. The engines could've just been idling. It would make sense to have them appying a thrust equal and opposite to the planet's gravity. It's really no stretch on SW technology, considering the great amounts of thrust they're already capable of generating. How they vector it downwards is a mystery to me. Still, it would be easier to assume that they were relying on repulsors, and just used the eninges for maneuvering.

The first dive of the Invisible Hand is due to "wonky artificial gravity generators" (as said by the VD), Anakin and Palpatine were running on the wall of the turbolift, but in the bridge everyone was still more of less standing as if it were a normal room.

That's odd. I wouldn't think that the internal gravity could cause an attitude and motion change. It hurts to think of how it's possible.

Though the weird artificial gravity does explain why Anakin and Palpatine weren't weightless (if on repulsors and the ships was freefalling) or being thrusted upwards (if the ship was in orbit).

Anyway, if they weren't in orbit, how can one explain the trajectory of that deceased ARC pilot? The pilot should've had at least some downward motion. Perhaps the golden mean could be used, and we could say that the ships were moving pretty quickly, but the Semi-major axis of their orbit was less than that of the radius of the planet. Even simpler, the ARC-170 could've been moving moving at a jet aircraft speed relative to the planet and its wreckage would have a relatively flat parabola.

Just because the engines glow does not me they're pushing 1000s of G thrust all the time; relativistic thrust streams like that are probably invisible to the visible spectrum. The engines will still probably glow white-hot even when idling.

Nephtys wrote:One thing I wondered. Where the heck does the VSD fit in things? I thought it was used towards the end of the clone wars as 'the ultimate weapon', yet we get Venators, not Victories. Since VSD is EU, I suppose three explainations.

1. It doesn't exist. Replaced by the pointier Venator.
2. It was deployed in a place we didn't see. Coruscant doesn't like Victories.
3. It's built AFTER the Clone Wars, and enjoys being phased out in less than five-ten years.

I've heard that its mentioned in the RotS novelization, and it is mentioned in SOTE, and probably a few other books. Either way, it does exist, and likely did before the end of the Clone Wars.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Just because the engines glow does not me they're pushing 1000s of G thrust all the time; relativistic thrust streams like that are probably invisible to the visible spectrum. The engines will still probably glow white-hot even when idling.

I never said they were. Idling ships with white/blue hot engines are a common sight throughout both trilogies. Considering how massive a SW ship can get, seeing blue hot engines at even 1 g shouldn't be abnormal.

YT300000 wrote:

Nephtys wrote:One thing I wondered. Where the heck does the VSD fit in things? I thought it was used towards the end of the clone wars as 'the ultimate weapon', yet we get Venators, not Victories. Since VSD is EU, I suppose three explainations.

1. It doesn't exist. Replaced by the pointier Venator.
2. It was deployed in a place we didn't see. Coruscant doesn't like Victories.
3. It's built AFTER the Clone Wars, and enjoys being phased out in less than five-ten years.

I've heard that its mentioned in the RotS novelization, and it is mentioned in SOTE, and probably a few other books. Either way, it does exist, and likely did before the end of the Clone Wars.

I already answered that question, gimboid.

YT300000 wrote:

Nephtys wrote:One thing I wondered. Where the heck does the VSD fit in things? I thought it was used towards the end of the clone wars as 'the ultimate weapon', yet we get Venators, not Victories. Since VSD is EU, I suppose three explainations.

1. It doesn't exist. Replaced by the pointier Venator.
2. It was deployed in a place we didn't see. Coruscant doesn't like Victories.
3. It's built AFTER the Clone Wars, and enjoys being phased out in less than five-ten years.

I've heard that its mentioned in the RotS novelization, and it is mentioned in SOTE, and probably a few other books. Either way, it does exist, and likely did before the end of the Clone Wars.

It's stated as being older than the Venator class ships in the ICS.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

YT300000 wrote:

Nephtys wrote:One thing I wondered. Where the heck does the VSD fit in things? I thought it was used towards the end of the clone wars as 'the ultimate weapon', yet we get Venators, not Victories. Since VSD is EU, I suppose three explainations.

1. It doesn't exist. Replaced by the pointier Venator.
2. It was deployed in a place we didn't see. Coruscant doesn't like Victories.
3. It's built AFTER the Clone Wars, and enjoys being phased out in less than five-ten years.

I've heard that its mentioned in the RotS novelization, and it is mentioned in SOTE, and probably a few other books. Either way, it does exist, and likely did before the end of the Clone Wars.

I already answered that question, gimboid.

Minus the evidence.