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Mange the Swede wrote:Hmm, the database found its way to Traviss who labels it as "abuse":

+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... tart=01425

Well what do you expect? There are those who agree with the 3 million number and Karen Travis who view these forums also. It doesn't take long for word to travel to certain ears.

If Traviss was smart, she wouldn't be advertising a page that completely and totally debunks her. I was actually wondering how we were going to get the word out on this database, but the dumb bitch did it all by herself.

Mange the Swede wrote:Hmm, the database found its way to Traviss who labels it as "abuse":

Karen Traviss wrote:This is my final word on the personal abuse issue. I've been the subject of personal attacks from around a dozen or so "fans" since September/ October last year.

We're back up to a dozen now? I thought some of us had disappeared.

A few weeks ago, I finally decided I'd had enough and I bit back. Hard.

Yeah, you continued to hijack the canon with the ludicrous assumption that the Jedi were working in cahoots with Palpatine the entire time. You published an entire short story for the sole purpose of sticking it to the fans who argued with you.... and if you're actually talking about us, then the discussion had died down weeks before.... but we're the ones abusing you.

Just so you're all aware what I mean by abuse, I've asked permission from the mods to post a link here. Normally, a link to material flaming a member of the TOS community would get someone banned, but because I'm the subject of the abuse, I can do it.

Yeah, you can link to a site which consists almost entirely of statements that you and your defenders have made, showing the ridiculousness of your position.

I warn you that it's very unpleasant.

Yeah, when I read what I've written in the last couple of months it's generally pretty traumatic. Oh, wait, no it's not.

I link to it not to prompt you into saying "Oh, poor Karen..." but so that you understand the level of abuse I'm talking about, and why I absolutely will not tolerate any discourtesy here - either to me, or about my absent colleagues, who I will defend if I catch any hint of personal disrespect towards them here.

Yes, yes, we've all been disrespectin' on KTizzle. I mean, we're the ones who wrote about how we've been "[d]riven to the brink of ripping someone's trachea out of their pitifully unworthy neck" and how our gut reaction is that our opponents "all need garotting." Oh, wait, that wasn't us. And we weren't the ones who subjected all of fandom to a story for the sole purpose of sticking it to those who disagree with us.

(If the mods don't catch it first, as they usually do anyway.)

Ah, yes, the same moderators who ruthlessly dispatched of the personal attacks on Karen, and hence eliminated all evidence of any transgressions. How convenient.

This is pretty typical of the sort of thing I get. If abuse offends you, don't look at this.

This is pretty typical, eh? Mind pointing us to other, similar, examples? After all, if there are only "a dozen or so" people who are abusing you, we might as well get to know each other. Maybe we can have a cocktail party, sometime.

Remember - talk about the stories, not the author.

The entire purpose of ODDS, by your own admission, was to attack the fans who disagree with your number. Furthermore, the nicey-nice "talk about the stories, not the author" policy is ONLY a policy on SW.com. Did you link to a SW.com blog? No--it takes everyone to an external site.

There's hardly anything to that site except a response to what you yourself wrote. IIRC, your supporters used to say that by posting materials you had previously written, we were bashing you. It's hardly surprising that this comes from the top.

Jim Raynor wrote:If Traviss was smart, she wouldn't be advertising a page that completely and totally debunks her. I was actually wondering how we were going to get the word out on this database, but the dumb bitch did it all by herself.

My thoughts exactly ... although I loved her 'please don't look if you don't like abuse' sob line ...

My covert, subversive response:

Darth Jango wrote:Wow, that's some site, Ms. Traviss. I think everyone should read through that carefully, it will really give you an understanding of what is going on.

^ And then she responded as if you were serious!

You know the fact that she found out about Poe's site - a work if fucking progress - means that she will, one way or the other, find out about you. Expect a quick ban from your Lord Knight and Protector Darth Mooseshit.

I couldn't care less if they do ban me, which is why I took the chance on this one. I have about 12 posts in my SW.com account over several years, and I really have no intention of getting involved in that community. The only time I ever found that account useful was for asking Chee some questions in his Holocron thread, and I can always have someone else do the asking for me.

I was going to respond to all this, but my ears started bleeding when Karen said it was a non-clone clone war.

Isn't that like having a meatless meatball?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Isn't that like having a meatless meatball?

Silly Talifan, everyone knows that meatballs are primarily made up of non meat substances, with only a little meat on the outside to give it a meat like appearance. Chef Palpatine is making everyone think that the meatballs are made entirely of meat and the Force Sensitive waiters are allowing it to perpetuate. If you disagree, then you are obviously a raging sexist.

Darth Fanboy wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Isn't that like having a meatless meatball?

Silly Talifan, everyone knows that meatballs are primarily made up of non meat substances, with only a little meat on the outside to give it a meat like appearance. Chef Palpatine is making everyone think that the meatballs are made entirely of meat and the Force Sensitive waiters are allowing it to perpetuate. If you disagree, then you are obviously a raging sexist.

*snicker*

Karen said it was a non-clone clone war

She didn't. One of the 3 million defenders did. Basing his view... on ODDS!!

Or did she already get into the nonsensical "non-Clone Clone War" already?

Actually, I'd really like to post "Tales from the Non-Clone war" with actual movie screenshots instead of my shitty drawings.

If someone could help me out with hosting and ROTS DVD screenshots (my DVDs, except for I and II, are off-hands)... ?

Jim Raynor
Much evil in you I sense, hmm...

Wow. I didn't know the EU was getting this messed up. I haven't touched it since the near the beginning of the Vong invasion, because I couldn't stand the idiacy of the New Republic. And with this 3 million clones, smother the opposition with bullshit and sychophantic fawning crap It would appear I didn't miss anything worthwhile.

It is literally impossible to derive the 3,000,000 clones figure from first principles (eg., the films, scripts, novelization). The only reason anyone is even trying is because they view the official literature as somehow being infallible, despite the fact that it's been shown to be wrong in the past.

So, to sum-up:

Karen Travis supported the 3 million troops argument last year, and got slammed by fans for it. Then, this year, just to piss off the people who slammed her, she wrote a story that made it "cannon".

Is this being a big deal outside of SDN?

Is this being a big deal outside of SDN?

To put simply - yes. But any attempts to get a public opinion at forums get censored for the reason of "no offense to VIPs whatsoever".

Even the mere fact that the debate still rages on after MONTHS from Insider publication, shows that we might just head into a second Executor debate.

And if the VD coming out from DK this year confirms OTHER numbers for the clones - boy, it _will_ be a second Executor battle even over the Official Site Forums, I guess.

And - you know, as long as it looks like a big deal, and it does, there's a chance for change.

If SW EU is twisting the whole CONCEPT of the movie so badly, that's just not going to slip past. Yhe 8 km Executor did NOT slip - and that was the length of just ONE - but a very big - ship.

Stas Bush wrote:

Is this being a big deal outside of SDN?

To put simply - yes. But any attempts to get a public opinion at forums get censored for the reason of "no offense to VIPs whatsoever".

Even the mere fact that the debate still rages on after MONTHS from Insider publication, shows that we might just head into a second Executor debate.

And if the VD coming out from DK this year confirms OTHER numbers for the clones - boy, it _will_ be a second Executor battle even over the Official Site Forums, I guess.

And - you know, as long as it looks like a big deal, and it does, there's a chance for change.

If SW EU is twisting the whole CONCEPT of the movie so badly, that's just not going to slip past. Yhe 8 km Executor did NOT slip - and that was the length of just ONE - but a very big - ship.

Could you clarify the bolded part of what you said?

I don't think the Visual Dictionary is that good at bringing up numbers. Can't remember anything from my copies at least.

Someone's got guts.

the_yawner wrote:Yeah, these things do backfire....

Indeed they do.

http://karentraviss.livejournal.com/2006/04/23/

I’d imagine your “snarchive” was where they got the idea.

Other great quotes:

anakin155 wrote:Guys, I doubt Miss. Traviss wants to see more hate. We love her, and thats all that counts.

Karen Traviss, in response to the_yawner wrote:> I'd look on the bright side- next time LFL wants you
> to write, you can use this as leverage to argue you
> deserve more money. Hazard pay or some such.

I do believe you're alleging that I'm doing this for monetary advantage. I think TOS has a view on that. But you might as well keep going...

Master of Ossus wrote:

anakin155 wrote:Guys, I doubt Miss. Traviss wants to see more hate. We love her, and thats all that counts.

Quick! Someone who hasn't been banned yet, but doesn't give a rat's ass if they will post this;

Love her? Hardly. I think her a talented author of short fiction, especially of military fiction but must conclude she suffers from dyscalculia and wish she would stop assigning numbers to anything.


... Well, you don't have to post it, I just tought that it would be funny!

actually we already know there were non-clone participants in the war (utapau and Kashyyyk from ROTS directly) so that's not really as far fetched as it seems.

To be honest, t he moment we had droid armies vs clones, it stopped being much of a "Clone Wars" for me. If the separatist army hadn't been so very inept for most of it (only until the end did they really start deploying heavy vehicles even close to the REpublic's , and that was largely "air support"

What I'm really afraid of is Traviss might get it into her head and startt fucking around with the non-clone forces as badly as she did the clones.

Connor MacLeod wrote:What I'm really afraid of is Traviss might get it into her head and startt fucking around with the non-clone forces as badly as she did the clones.

She's already claimed that they've only got 100 million-range of battle droids, and that their factories were up for a year and only produced six-figures of droids.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:What I'm really afraid of is Traviss might get it into her head and startt fucking around with the non-clone forces as badly as she did the clones.

She's already claimed that they've only got 100 million-range of battle droids, and that their factories were up for a year and only produced six-figures of droids.

I mean the non-clone forces on the Republic's side. I'm well aware she keeps changing her position on the issue.

Karen appears to be ripping on "the_yawner." Do they have a history, or something? Anyone know?

Why don't we paint the BS coming from the Fandalorians and their mistress as offense to other VIPs (like Simon Beecraft, James Luceno or G.Abel Pena - mentioning Curtis Saxton might be counterproductive).

I mean, according to Lord of War there were hundreds of millions of droids at the battle of Coruscant alone.