SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread II

[K. A. Pital]

Actually the MiG-31 is still superior as a heavy interceptor. The F-15 program is just trying to push the fighter to the limits, and it did just that with F-15K/SG, but that's it.

The MiG-31(BM) or MiG-31M, on the other hand, can reach speeds up to Mach 2,83 and higher - the aircraft are authorized to break Mach 3 if the mission calls for it, and the MiG-31M's engines, D-30-F6M, are actually more than capable of doing it, with 16,500 kgf / 161 kN thrust each. It can operate at altitudes over 20,000 m - something that the F-15 can't boast. It's climb ratio, especially after going to supersonic, is the same or even better than that of the F-15E.

I'm not saying PeZook shouldn't buy a cheaper machine more fit for his missiles though. I mean.. why not?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Fuck it. When Shepistani bombers come for Shroomania, I'll petition that the ensuing battle will not be won on sane merits - but on ACTION MOVIE STANDARDS! In which, like, we'll see Shroomanian fighters gun down Shepistani planes - WITH THEIR GUNS. Killing improbable amounts of people or some shit.

Shroomanian soldiers won't need to reload their guns! They'll do it off-screen.

They can also leap out of explosions.

ACTION MOVIE! VAMPIRES!

Erm Shroom, did you read? He armed his bombers with FMRAAMs. Your fighters will be dead before they reach the bombers.

[Shroom Man 777]

I'm just retarding from all of this military madness.

Didn't someone raise a tiff 'cause Turd World Shepistani is wielding a ramjet-powered AMRAAM that hasn't even been developed in the real-world?

[K. A. Pital]

Well that's bullshit. The AMRAAM and FMRAAM as other BVR weapons aren't super-effective against fighters which maneuver - and that being the reason why fighters close in to each others missile ranges to kill and make certain the target is tracked.

A bomber closing in with a fighter to ensure his FMRAAM killed someone... is not cool.

Also, PakistanoShep is not supposed to have FMRAAMs, amrite? But that's for another time!

P.S. Yeah, the fuck? Sheppard says "Pakistan" and gives himself a weapon which is NOT EVEN FUCKING CREATED? I mean, "future" missile? Well let's consider this, we made rules about fucking paper weapons, exactly for that reason, and Shep manages to break them.

I await the Duchess' judgement. It's my view Shep must be punished. His missiles on bombers must not only be downgraded to EXISTING examples, but to the kinds Pakistan can be expected to have.

Shep's bomber force should be torn to shreds after he fired the first volley.

[Shroom Man 777]

And I thought I was doing his deprived country a favor by buying his Shep sheep wool and reselling it back to him as designer clothing for outrageous prices.

So, guys. How about the CCCP?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well that's bullshit. The AMRAAM and FMRAAM as other BVR weapons aren't super-effective against fighters which maneuver - and that being the reason why fighters close in to each others missile ranges to kill and make certain the target is tracked.

A bomber closing in with a fighter to ensure his FMRAAM killed someone... is not cool.

Also, PakistanoShep is not supposed to have FMRAAMs, amrite? But that's for another time!

P.S. Yeah, the fuck? Sheppard says "Pakistan" and gives himself a weapon which is NOT EVEN FUCKING CREATED? I mean, "future" missile? Well let's consider this, we made rules about fucking paper weapons, exactly for that reason, and Shep manages to break them.

I await the Duchess' judgement. It's my view Shep must be punished. His missiles on bombers must not only be downgraded to EXISTING examples, but to the kinds Pakistan can be expected to have.

Shep's bomber force should be torn to shreds after he fired the first volley.

Even if he didn't have them, my guess is that the missiles would deter the fighters from reaching the bombers in time.

But then again, I'll wouldn't put it past Shep to pull more bullshit out of the bag like the last time.

[DarthShady]

Castrate Shep!

Oh wait, this isn't a poll.


Shroom, Movie logic sounds good to me.

[K. A. Pital]

"FMRAAMS" right. I thought he meant some sort of Shepistani indigenous name for some missile. Fuck that.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

"FMRAAMS" right. I thought he meant some sort of Shepistani indigenous name for some missile. Fuck that.

Well,

The crews of the DFB-56s sweated nervously. The search and tracking radars that had been painting them had suddenly switched to fire control mode, meaning that missiles were on the way; and try as you might, the B-56 was no sprightly spring hare against AIM-120s. Like the OD pilots, they synched their targets, and then launched their Japanistani FMRAAMs against the now fleeing F-18Es, before beginning evasive manouvers against the incoming missiles.

[PeZook]

Yeah, he went around the rules by instantly allying with Japanistan and buying all the advanced shit off them.

[K. A. Pital]

Next - how the fuck does he guide those missiles, with what? Did Japanistan also give him advanced radars compatible with that missile to boot?

If not, the launch of missiles is mostly irrelevant. Without midcourse correction, they would miss badly, maybe claim a few casualties, but Shep's bomber force still wouldn't stand up to the enemy.

[phongn]

Next - how the fuck does he guide those missiles, with what? Did Japanistan also give him advanced radars compatible with that missile to boot?

He's got a huge radar on those bombers sending in midcourse updates.

[K. A. Pital]

He's got a huge radar on those bombers sending in midcourse updates.

If the bombers are taking evasive action, wouldn't that hamper the issue? Also, they are far slower than the "now-fleeing" F-18s and since they fired the missiles from BVR (around 100 km) they will face a hard time tracking the targets which are escaping range at a speed of 400 m/s, or even full 600 m/s. By that speed, in the ~100 seconds required for the missile to reach target, the planes will make another 60 km. Hell, there's no guarantee for successful intercepts. No back-fired missiles on F-18 means they might not be able to down some pesky Amraams, but some missiles will be shaken off by countermeasures.

Basically, Shep expended a lot of his very modern missiles as standoff munitions not to risk wholesale murder of his fleet, but wholesale murder is still not far behind. If he fired at 100 km or so, there's a good chance the missile will expend it's capacity for terminal intercept .

After ~100 seconds of flight, Shep's bombers will be engaging the same type of missile. Since the F-18s went to evasive action, they won't be able to do good tracking too, but they can have Jamming Homing on, Shep's bombers are full of jammers.

In any case, the F-18 force will score more kills than Shep's bomber force, and ultimately Shep's force will be destroyed after it was broken down.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Good Lord Shady, I barely have the troops to help police the other territories, let alone the new one you are opening up.

[DarthShady]

Good Lord Shady, I barely have the troops to help police the other territories, let alone the new one you are opening up.

There is no need, I will control this one. If you read carefully this is an annexation not a peacekeeping mission to overthrow a dictator.

[Karmic Knight]

There is no need, I will control this one. If you read carefully this is an annexation not a peacekeeping mission to overthrow a dictator.

Lebensraum!

Germany, er, the USSR Rises again!

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

The MiG-31's enormously powerful radar, just ike it's preceding craft, the MiG-25, allows it to engage planes properly on higher distances and break through ECM. The PESA in MiG-31 is what the plane's worth for.

What does the F-15 boast?

Contrary to what one may think, the MiG-31 or 25 are not just sitting duck interceptors - they can be used in airspace control and assault/bombing missions. Combined with the newer generation of Russian missiles like R-77 or KS-172, it can effectively engage and kill opposing interceptors.

The KS-172 was exactly what I had in mind when I selected the MiG-31 as my dedicated interceptor. Maximum range of 250 miles? Yes, please.

Since Byzantium does build a MiG-31 that can use both NATO and WarPac ordinance, I think I'll just buy from them instead (or from Shady, who's currently handling MiG-31 production while Byzantium ups its bomber and SAM production). $2.8 billion for 48 Foxhounds sounds like a good deal.

Also, S-300s and S-400s. I'd like another twelve S-300 batteries and four S-400 batteries. Does Stas' old offer still apply, or do I have to renegotiate? Another $2.3 billion for the aforementioned dozen S-300s and four S-400s should be adequate...

[Shroom Man 777]

Wait... are annexations even legally allowed? Shady is using the Shep-Old D scare, plus our worries over Japanistan, as cover to invade other nations and shit!

Goddamn!


Hay guys! Can we mount those AWESOME Russian missiles on F-15s and F-16s?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wait... are annexations even legally allowed? Shady is using the Shep-Old D scare, plus our worries over Japanistan, as cover to invade other nations and shit!

Goddamn!


Hay guys! Can we mount those AWESOME Russian missiles on F-15s and F-16s?

If you are willing to work on it... that is...

I have been working on that, largely in secret.

[Raj Ahten]

Christ. I'm aghast at all the airplane talk. Like Shroom Man, I have no idea about the minutiae.

Indhopal isn't too far behind I hope. My Gripen's are being upgraded with super cruise engines and with better radars and some other stuff like more hard points (Basically what the Swedes plan on doing with their fleet in the future.)

Not like I'll be using those planes against anyone who can fight back. I plan to stick with my peacekeeping operations and brush wars!

[K. A. Pital]

My S-300 offer still applies of course.

As for missiles, and other stuff: Western avionic/electronic suite are compatible with western missiles, Eastern with eastern missiles likewise. So if you fit Western suite on a fighter, you can shoot western missiles from it if the attachments are modified.

[Coyote]

Don't feel bad, guys, I'm used to military acronym-speak and this stuff still just scrambles my brain when confronted by a solid wall of it.

Remember, this isn't a Tom Clancy write-off competition. Some research is good and it helps, but I don't have the real-life time to devote to all the in-depth, what-if, armchair general analysis and theory-- I just write to my level or below because this is for fun and as a sort of writer's exercise.

It strikes me, though, that what we essentially have is two different games being played on the same board. On the one side, you have everyone who is role-playing themselves, based off of the original SDN world scenario, the Q character, and agreeing to adhere to the point system, flawed though it may be, for the same of being on a level playing field.

On the other hand, you have Skimmer who is not RP'ing himself but just "an aggressive expansionist nation trying to get by" and has dumped the point system to go with a more complex but reality-based allocation of defense budget based off GDP, and Shep, who is RP'ing himself for brief interludes but also mostly going off the "budget" model rather than the "points" model.

Right now it seems like some of of us are playing "Monopoly" and some of us are playing "Risk", all on the same board.

I suppose we could come to some sort of agreement and adjust/modify things on the fly (maybe we could expand the points system to reflect "growing defense budgets" and either cut in half the point-cost of units, or, keep the point costs but double the number of units purches?).

The point system I came up with, modified from Beowulf's original plan, was intended for simplicity since a lot of people here are not military experts or number-crunchers, nor do we have the time or patience to pore through volume upon volume of Military Arcana. I intended the points system I proposed as just that, a proposal, and while it seemed workable at the time we can adjust it if those of us using it can agree.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I went off the point system for my land forces largely after seeing what Skimmer put down. If I didn't go off the point system, not only will the balance of power be off the whack, it will take forever to raise a military to at least fight him off if it comes to it.

[Steve]

The problem isn't just the point system but the point limitations by national size. Instead of a definite ceiling of only 3000 points for Imperium, 1500 for Tsardom, etc. we should've permitted people to decide on their defense budget and allocated points from there.

The drawback to high defense spending, of course, is a combination of deficit spending, higher taxation, and lower spending on domestic concerns, plus the economic woes that come from all that and perhaps some difficulty in upgrading to newer technologies, since so much money has to be spent on what's already in place and could reflect things like an entrenched defense industry that can't easily change gears. (Especially since we don't seem to have as many nations on the world surface that can buy old surplus, thus partially financing upgrading of kit - it doesn't help that Frequesue, the closest thing we have to Africa, is already throwing around things like 4th Gen fighters and top-flight military ships).

[Raj Ahten]

Master Bearne, about the Revolutionary Front Attack: It can as successful as plot demands of it. If it fails badly they'll pull back into pre-prepared mountain positions that are well camouflaged and bleed a counterattack dry. From now on they are also performing deep penetration raids using primarily the Iron Tigers, though other formations raid locally.

If some of your people get captured, they can join Indhopal's negotiators that were kidnapped. Then we can plan a joint rescue operation .