SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread II

[K. A. Pital]

I still can't believe Shep dared to bitch about my Navy, especially when because of this Navy exactly, and due to the points system, I had to garrot my Army - it is about 3-4 tank/mechanized armies and 12 infantry armies, including reserves - total, my AF is a pale comparison to the Soviet VVS (at the moment, will get better as years roll). He didn't even bother to see what kind of "carriers" I have, instantly equating my 6 half-carriers and 2 true nuclear carriers with the US' 12 true nuclear carriers operating. This is fucking ridiculous.

FMRAAM are post-2009 technology, whereas my vessels are years old.

I didn't even claim a single beast like "Ford" - which some people easily did in multiple numbers (okay, I'm constructing ONE yet larger-than-Ulyanovsk carrier of the 1153 project, but I'm taking 5 damn years to do it). I also didn't claim LHA's like Tarawa which the US has in multitudes (I'm just constructing two Soviet Tarawa clones now).

Seriously, if there's one thing that's realistically militarized regarding my nation, that's the Navy - it's realistic construction regarding a nation with a higher-than-USSR GDP some 20 years into the future. The rest is even waay undersized.

And with the level of technology we have, we should have obsolete stocks of weapons in Imperiums similar to WARPAC nations stocks at least, but I even ditched that, saying that I truly outphased the old equipment and operate a smaller but more modern military.

[MKSheppard]

I still can't believe Shep dared to bitch about my Navy

I was bitching about CmdrWilkens navy, not yours. Your navy is pretty much fine, because you didn't go overboard with it. Wilkens is the one operating EIGHT full deck Nimitz Class Supercarriers on half the USA's GDP.

[K. A. Pital]

Oh. Sorry.. In that case, I believe it's fair. What's his conventional army and AF? If slashed, he could do it. If his AF is chock full of Raptors and Army arund 1,500,000 strength with super-modern US equipment, he's overboard indeed.

[PeZook]

Some lighter notes from New Earth conspiracy nuts: FASTA is out to get you, man!

Communists are NWO lackeys! No, the corporations are! No, the democratic governments are!

PeZookian government wants to know when you MASTURBATE!

[MKSheppard]

And I gave Shroom and anyone else in FUN or whatever a way to insert themselves into this war; via Milo Shroombender, the war PROFITEER!

[Siege]

Let me just take a minute to say that I think armed merchant ships sailing into warzones to replenish depleted stocks SM-2s and ESSMs on the waves is utter brilliance.

Still, I think San Dorado's amoral merchants will sit this one out -- we're a bit too small and vulnerable to risk antagonizing those duking it out. Short-term profits have to take a back seat to long-term consequences (and profits) right now.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So.. an Ice cream truck on the waves is next up?

[phongn]

Let me just take a minute to say that I think armed merchant ships sailing into warzones to replenish depleted stocks SM-2s and ESSMs on the waves is utter brilliance.

That was all Shep.

Still, I think San Dorado's amoral merchants will sit this one out -- we're a bit too small and vulnerable to risk antagonizing those duking it out. Short-term profits have to take a back seat to long-term consequences (and profits) right now.

Just become a wholly-own subsidiary, you know you want to ...

So.. an Ice cream truck on the waves is next up?

They do have refrigerated storage for munitions, and you never know what footstuffs we might have along

[PeZook]

There were talks about calling the pilots who tested MiG-25s and MiG-31 to become the cosmonauts once the space program gets manned flight up and running, but so far the pilots enjoyed a moment of rest.

Astronaut recruitment is already up, Stas. They're currently training and working out procedures ahead of time, generally preparing for first manned Mercury flights.

BTW, who should be the first FASTA astronaut in space?

[RogueIce]

BTW, who should be the first FASTA astronaut in space?

For the record, I will put out a hit on the first person to suggest Neil Shroomstrong.

[PeZook]

For the record, I will put out a hit on the first person to suggest Neil Shroomstrong.

That's cool, I wanted to have Alan Shroompard there anyway

[MKSheppard]

Lol, Yenchin, I love you. How are you going to find something with a natural circulation reactor, turboelectric drives, and anechoic coating without pinging the fuck away with active sonar?

[RogueIce]

That's cool, I wanted to have Alan Shroompard there anyway

I'm not sure if my assassins can get to someone in Poland. I guess I'll just have to find out.

Anyway, as I stated, the real reason I didn't declare war was RL crap. I simply didn't have the time yesterday to do it when I wanted to. So this is a sort of retroactive justification for it.

The nice part is I have historical (Lonestar mentioned a Shinra armored division sitting out that historical conflict due to a "presidential scandal" in the History thread; no doubt a joke but I'll use it anyway) and personal (I am 23 IU after all) precedent for holding back, which goes to make it believeable that I just lost my nerve or something.

[PeZook]

That's cool, I wanted to have Alan Shroompard there anyway

I'm not sure if my assassins can get to someone in Poland. I guess I'll just have to find out.

Hey, it's not my fault you walked right into that one

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, I certainly am not averse to having either of them meet an accident on the way home.

[RogueIce]

Hey, it's not my fault you walked right into that one

True.

Anyway, if the Shroom names get as bad as last time, I move we get a moderatorial proclamation that incest is the national pasttime of Shroomania.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Shep, you just knocked a carrier out of the war and damaged another one and you're trying to game away the loss of a single of your giant subs? Get off it. I'll let THIS ONE stand, but the next major ASW attack on an SSAN is going to kill that SSAN, though it can be another one if you want to keep Kuzmina around as a character.

[PeZook]

[
Anyway, if the Shroom names get as bad as last time, I move we get a moderatorial proclamation that incest is the national pasttime of Shroomania.

But turning this thing serious: Who? Shroomanians do have a good case, of course, but so does the CSR (the rocket is mostly theirs, after all )

It's a prestige thing mostly, of course, since in the next 20 years or so we are pretty much guaranteed to see every single nation represented in orbit.

[RogueIce]

Shep, you just knocked a carrier out of the war and damaged another one and you're trying to game away the loss of a single of your giant subs? Get off it. I'll let THIS ONE stand, but the next major ASW attack on an SSAN is going to kill that SSAN, though it can be another one if you want to keep Kuzmina around as a character.

I'm no military expert, but...

If he's got three of his super subs with all that high-tech bullshit crammed in that altogether doesn't even exist on paper (nevermind his super torpedo and super missile) and the only "flaw" was one super missile not working for the RSS Jack I don't think it entirely unreasonable some mechanical defect made noise on the one Yenchin hit and that, combined with the increased alert level, caused them to go apeshit and kill anything there.

Or for that matter, such a thing dooming a future sub if you really want to let this one survive.

[MKSheppard]

Shep, you just knocked a carrier out of the war and damaged another one and you're trying to game away the loss of a single of your giant subs? Get off it.

It took my sonar crew almost an entire WEEK to nail down the locations of the MESS SSNs via staring at waterfall displays until their eyeballs fell out of their heads to gain rough locations good enough for an active sonar lashing to firm up the bearings; and yet Yenchin's submarines which have arrived at best a few hours ago; manage to find a submarine with natural circulation reactors and a turboelectric drive?

There are virtually ZERO machinery noises from such a sub; there's no sounds from a reactor coolant pump; it's just a quiet gurgle as the coolant is shifted around via natural convection.

The only way he could have localized the Jack is if he was radiating away with everything from all of his boats; including active sonar; which is a death sentence anyway...

[MKSheppard]

If he's got three of his super subs with all that high-tech bullshit crammed in that altogether doesn't even exist on paper (nevermind his super torpedo and super missile)

Natural circulation reactors and turboelectric drives exist; the US Navy has fielded them in the past -- they were never popular, because they have low power to weight ratios; which make keeping up with 30+ knot CVBGs impossible.

Secondly, there is nothing special about the "super torpedo/missile" system that is the Sea Stallion. It is a solid propellant rocket in the same vein as SUBROC/ASROC, except scaled up so that instead of throwing a lightweight Mark 46/50 torpedo; it throws a full sized heavyweight Mark 48 torpedo weighing some 3,000 pounds to 70+ nautical miles.

As for the Igo-26 missile; it exists. It's called the SS-26. Go google it.

I don't think it entirely unreasonable some mechanical defect made noise on the one Yenchin hit and that, combined with the increased alert level, caused them to go apeshit and kill anything there.

Fine; there can be some problem on the Jack like an improperly screwed down motor housing or something...

[Steve]

Fine; there can be some problem on the Jack like an improperly screwed down motor housing or something...

Will some Shepistani sailor be scrubbing latrines with toothbrushes for awhile?

[K. A. Pital]

Actually, the MESS could kill the SSAN, but let's be realistic about it: the hunter ship or boat would have to use very modern Hydroacoustic Active Sonar Station (SURFASS, ATAS, VIGNETTE-E etc) towed to the ship.

In a duel of silent ships like submarines the one with a superior HAS wins. Since Shep's SSAN has inferior HAS, it won't be able to notice boats eeven inferior, not speaking of similar or superior to itself in silent running. Of course, a group of ships in order is an easy, very loud target and the HAS of Shepistan's Jack would easily pick it up. But what if put versus a Yasen, Seawolf, Virginia, Lada, Alrosa? All of them are pumpjet driven, supersilent subs with a smaller size (thus easier hydrodynamic symmetry and less vibrations), and they boast 3rd - 3+ generation hydroacoustic sonars, including towed ones. Shep is now the hunted, not a hunter versus those opponents.

A Large ASW ship (does the MESS field any?) could spam the approximate place with ASROCs/RBU-6000/10000/120000 system salvoes.

Also, given Shep's boat size, it's hydroacoustic vibration will be larger than that of silent boats smaller size. Why? It's called "assymmetrical waves" - propeller boats are most prone to the disease, and a pump jet is a cure, but NOT a panacea. The larger a boat gets, the harder it becomes to maintain hydrodynamic symmetry.

Realistically, a group of hunters laying in wait in the region, with towed HAS released, would pick the SSAN and could (I'm not saying WOULD) kill it.

[Czechmate]

Ironically, the best possible ship to hunt Shep's SSAN would be an Ohio doing the slow-attack thing. Damn things are the quietest submarines ever made.

I do confess I was rereading Debt of Honor last night. Clancy's books are such crap if you think about it, but they're readable popcorn books if you just enjoy it instead.

[MKSheppard]

Ironically, everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

*palpatine*

1.) MESS Declares War on Shepistan
2.) MESS rushes everything they have to fight Shepistan, including their huge navies
3.) Target rich environment results

Long ago, when SDN world 1 had just ended in atomic holocaust and SDN World 2 was in the planning stages, Skimmer and I mused over hypotheticals for SDN World 2.

One of our major assumptions was that the MESS would absurdly spam navies like before, and try to control the place via sea power like in game one. So we sat down and worked out the vunerabilities of a carrier battlegroup -- and how to exploit them.

If you launch a conventional fighter/bomber or cruise missile attack; you're going to fly right into the teeth of a CVBG's defenses, which are so absurdly optimized to defeat said attack.

However, if you attack from such high altitudes 200,000+ feet as in the case of SS-26 (Igo-26); so high that the majority of the carrier's AAW weapons can't engage it, or attack from below the surface, where anti-torpedo defenses are deficient; you can inflict severe damage.

The biggest problem with subsurface attacks is that the greatest enemy to another submarine is another submarine, so we needed a way of defeating the SSNs which would be escorting the CVBGs; and Skimmer and me evolved the idea of dropping torpedoes on top of them via SUBROC/ASROC in a triangular pattern; and did the calculations on the size and weight of such a booster necessary; which gave us a lot of room to play with, allowing for multi-modal attacks from the same platform.