StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Quite possibly...

RogueIce wrote:So I was meandering around the Wiki and I was thinking. Fin, if your F-12s are grounded awaiting avionics upgrades, I'll take some off your hands if you're interested. You know, as a show that Byzantium and Shinra don't have to hate each other forever?

Avionics were replaced in the aftermath of the incident. A few years ago, a program to ensure anything I had that was of MESS origin had some kind of back up set of systems. As such, the F-12s have been instead cannibalized for parts to keep only 1/3 of the fleet running. That has been the case for a while anyway. Otherwise, I'm just running the fleet to the ground since after all, their usefulness has severely degraded with the introduction of the MACH 6 Igla hypersonic interceptors.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Avionics were replaced in the aftermath of the incident. A few years ago, a program to ensure anything I had that was of MESS origin had some kind of back up set of systems. As such, the F-12s have been instead cannibalized for parts to keep only 1/3 of the fleet running. That has been the case for a while anyway. Otherwise, I'm just running the fleet to the ground since after all, their usefulness has severely degraded with the introduction of the MACH 6 Igla hypersonic interceptors.

Well if you're just going to run them into the ground anyway, why not make some money and sell 'em off? I'm not looking to use them forever or anything.

RogueIce wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Avionics were replaced in the aftermath of the incident. A few years ago, a program to ensure anything I had that was of MESS origin had some kind of back up set of systems. As such, the F-12s have been instead cannibalized for parts to keep only 1/3 of the fleet running. That has been the case for a while anyway. Otherwise, I'm just running the fleet to the ground since after all, their usefulness has severely degraded with the introduction of the MACH 6 Igla hypersonic interceptors.

Well if you're just going to run them into the ground anyway, why not make some money and sell 'em off? I'm not looking to use them forever or anything.

I guess I could. And then send the pilots off the mann the newer aircraft....

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I guess I could. And then send the pilots off the mann the newer aircraft....

Excellent. 1/3 of 72 still operational? I guess I'll take the parts hulks too if you want.

RogueIce wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I guess I could. And then send the pilots off the mann the newer aircraft....

Excellent. 1/3 of 72 still operational? I guess I'll take the parts hulks too if you want.

Alright. Deal.

All this talk reminds me of the tank thing. I was impressed with what I saw of the Byzantine K-2 and K-3. I'm leaning toward the K-2 as the most flexible, since I need tanks that can fight in the valleys and foothills of Cascadia's mountainous north as well as tanks I can use in the coastal steppes and jungles of Veleria while retaining decent offensive and defensive capabilities. The K-2 is also lighter IIRC so more could be sealifted in the off-chance Cascadia/the Pacific Union has to invade someone by sea and take advantage of captured ports and the like (or, admittedly, to maneuver against Japanistani tanks in the jungles and savannahs of northwestern Veleria).

Unless my appraisal of their capabilities and worth for these missions is wrong?

I'm still plenty willing to sell Merkava IVs and Namur HAPCs to alleviate my budget issues.

Steve wrote:All this talk reminds me of the tank thing. I was impressed with what I saw of the Byzantine K-2 and K-3. I'm leaning toward the K-2 as the most flexible, since I need tanks that can fight in the valleys and foothills of Cascadia's mountainous north as well as tanks I can use in the coastal steppes and jungles of Veleria while retaining decent offensive and defensive capabilities. The K-2 is also lighter IIRC so more could be sealifted in the off-chance Cascadia/the Pacific Union has to invade someone by sea and take advantage of captured ports and the like (or, admittedly, to maneuver against Japanistani tanks in the jungles and savannahs of northwestern Veleria).

Unless my appraisal of their capabilities and worth for these missions is wrong?

Pretty much. The K-2 also has a nice 55 tonne tank great for rough mountainous terrain, and the frontal armor is proof against 120mm KE projectiles. And now, we have more advance ammunition to give the tank the ability to hit 8km away, with either anti-tank missiles, or rocket propelled KE penetrators. Ought to put a hole in any Japanistani super tank. Also, added active and passive defences against anti-tank missiles and bombs and so forth give this tank the added edge on the battlefield.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Steve wrote:All this talk reminds me of the tank thing. I was impressed with what I saw of the Byzantine K-2 and K-3. I'm leaning toward the K-2 as the most flexible, since I need tanks that can fight in the valleys and foothills of Cascadia's mountainous north as well as tanks I can use in the coastal steppes and jungles of Veleria while retaining decent offensive and defensive capabilities. The K-2 is also lighter IIRC so more could be sealifted in the off-chance Cascadia/the Pacific Union has to invade someone by sea and take advantage of captured ports and the like (or, admittedly, to maneuver against Japanistani tanks in the jungles and savannahs of northwestern Veleria).

Unless my appraisal of their capabilities and worth for these missions is wrong?

Pretty much. The K-2 also has a nice 55 tonne tank great for rough mountainous terrain, and the frontal armor is proof against 120mm KE projectiles. And now, we have more advance ammunition to give the tank the ability to hit 8km away, with either anti-tank missiles, or rocket propelled KE penetrators. Ought to put a hole in any Japanistani super tank. Also, added active and passive defences against anti-tank missiles and bombs and so forth give this tank the added edge on the battlefield.

The price tag is a possible concern but buying a medium tank and not the heavy K-3 should help with that, I'm looking to outfit three, possibly four or even five brigades depending upon cost. Also, of course, licenses for Cascadian (and now Alaskan) defense contractors to produce units and the spare parts, though the initial orders would be made to Byzantine contractors.

Frankly, I gave up trying to calculate my defense budget a long time ago but I still want to pay lip service to the idea of not being completely hog wild about defense spending. I thought I was peaking toward $80B/year at one point.

Steve wrote:The price tag is a possible concern but buying a medium tank and not the heavy K-3 should help with that, I'm looking to outfit three, possibly four or even five brigades depending upon cost. Also, of course, licenses for Cascadian (and now Alaskan) defense contractors to produce units and the spare parts, though the initial orders would be made to Byzantine contractors.

Frankly, I gave up trying to calculate my defense budget a long time ago but I still want to pay lip service to the idea of not being completely hog wild about defense spending. I thought I was peaking toward $80B/year at one point.

Byzantium is amenable to a licensing deal, and initial production one. We can just handwave the details really.

Nice propaganda, Stas .

I've whipped up a quick map on the CFR like I did with the fair isle of Zanzibar. Would this be acceptable to all stakeholders?



1: Mortimer's Claim (Occuppied)
2: Fimbulwinter (Winter Army)
3: Eastern Occidental (Independent)
4: Yorkshire (Yorkshire Militias)

Hope I didn't miss anything.

PeZookia's shopping list 2017. Quick and dirty, because I'm strapped for time:

Ground troops:

30 000 Old Dominion NBC Kits (for units deployed in Arabia and Palestine): 300 million

3500 CIR-01 rifles (for test deployment in select units): 70 million

30 000 new CATO body armor kits (for units deployed in Arabia and Palestine): 1.8 billion

64 K-3 tanks (test deployment to one front-line brigade, more purchases later): ???

Air Force:

60 CF-01 heavy fighters: 8.16 billion at a 20% discount - Thanks, Shady! (first batch of a planned 152 airplane purchase)

48 CFB-01: for free. Thanks, Shady!

Navy:

2 CSN-01 (next-generation attack sub): 1.5 billion

4 Continental destroyers: ???

Total cost so far:

11.73 billion in acquisition costs, plus the destroyes and tanks

EDIT:

Rogue, I took the liberty of kicking off the royal visit

So not a year or two had passed after "genocidal" NPC Cortez was replaced by "OICAS OIAF OLD DOMINION HURRAH" puppet-Shep, and puppetShep uses chemical weapons.

MESS is really shooting itself into the foot. Neocolonialism is not too drastic a charge today; but how bout "war crimes of MESS backed dictators!!!" Your PR is damn lousy, dudes...

SiegeTank wrote:Nice propaganda, Stas .

I've whipped up a quick map on the CFR like I did with the fair isle of Zanzibar. Would this be acceptable to all stakeholders?



1: Mortimer's Claim (Occuppied)
2: Fimbulwinter (Winter Army)
3: Eastern Occidental (Independent)
4: Yorkshire (Yorkshire Militias)

Hope I didn't miss anything.

Looks pretty good to me, though there might be more rivers in the area running North/South through Mortimer's claim and other areas. Something to add would be the old Capital of Flensburg, probably in Mortimer's claim.

Edit: Actually now that I've thought on it a bit, I don't think Yorkshire is quite that big. The O'Reilly's certainly might want that much territory but they don't have the means to occupy it or the historical claim to it that would really be necessary.

Maybe Mortimer's claim should go a bit further east?

Steve wrote:

SiegeTank wrote: I've elected to call it Zanzibar because I ran out of inspiration in a most spectacular fashion.

You're just asking for Shroom to start posting MGS game pics and talking about bizarre Shroomizations of Solid Snake, Otacon, etc, y'know that right?

It can't be... YOU WERE KILLED IN ZANZIBAR! HOW CAN YOU STILL BE ALIVE?!



I totally DID post MGS game pics in SDNWorld Game 1! I totally SO did! Just ask Shady!

But for events to occur in Zanzibar... that would be, like, what? 8-bit videogame pics? Mang.

If Zanzibar has lots of bananas, then maybe there can be an APE ESCAPE and they'll have a MESAL GEAR! PIPO SNAKE!

SNAKE vs MONKEY!



Man, Steve, you're the only one who understands me!

Cobra IFV, with 25 mm autocannon. Carries 2-3 fireteams and their gear. Crew of four including gunner, driver, and mechanics.

Ryan Thunder wrote:
Cobra IFV, with 25 mm autocannon. Carries 2-3 fireteams and their gear. Crew of four including gunner and mechanics.

Er... How big is a fire team?

Normally a fire team is 4 people or so. Must be a big IFV, if it can carry 16 people.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Er... How big is a fire team?

A team leader, specialist, and a couple of mooks. Four soldiers, all told.

It's the sub-unit that squads are divided into.

Beowulf wrote:Normally a fire team is 4 people or so. Must be a big IFV, if it can carry 16 people.

Oh, my bad. 2 fireteams. It was 2-3 before I thought of how much space you'd need.

Stas Bush wrote:So not a year or two had passed after "genocidal" NPC Cortez was replaced by "OICAS OIAF OLD DOMINION HURRAH" puppet-Shep, and puppetShep uses chemical weapons.

MESS is really shooting itself into the foot. Neocolonialism is not too drastic a charge today; but how bout "war crimes of MESS backed dictators!!!" Your PR is damn lousy, dudes...

Defoliants are not Chemical weapons in the sense that Mustard Gas, Sarin, etc. Are.

AFVs in general don't carry mechanics. Most maintence is done by the crew. You're really looking at more like 3 people: driver, gunner, commander, with the track commander possibly also wearing another hat to be squad leader.

Beowulf wrote:AFVs in general don't carry mechanics. Most maintence is done by the crew. You're really looking at more like 3 people: driver, gunner, commander, with the track commander possibly also wearing another hat to be squad leader.

Ah. Alright, so crew of 3, carries 8 passengers, 12 if they're light on gear (as in, rifles and ammunition only, I figure.)

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Beowulf wrote:AFVs in general don't carry mechanics. Most maintence is done by the crew. You're really looking at more like 3 people: driver, gunner, commander, with the track commander possibly also wearing another hat to be squad leader.

Ah. Alright, so crew of 3, carries 8 passengers, 12 if they're light on gear (as in, rifles and ammunition only, I figure.)

12 if they're light on gear... and laying on top of each other.

Beowulf wrote:12 if they're light on gear... and laying on top of each other.

That might actually work for the Shroomanians.