Medieval II Total War Patch 1.2 Released!

[Vympel]

So, I finally made it to the new world - I think Ive sent way too many armies. Heck, Ive got 6 Carracks making their way there apart from the two that have already landed, filled to the gills with heavy cavalry, infantry, and archers. I took Brazil first, Ive got one headed for the Caribbean, and the rest are all going to spam the Aztecs.

It was so easy taking Brazil. I simply set up my Byz. Guard Archers and Vardariotai around the village and spewed arrows into the town square. I massacred almost 900 out of 1000 defenders without taking a casualty.

And its awesome watching a Dis. Byzantine Lancer in full Kataphrakt armor on foot kill some Native Chieftain.

EDIT: however, in my only major defeat in the entire campaign, a stack of mine at Sarkel which was taking a Rebel castle was set upon by the remnants of the Timurid horde, and completely wiped out. Sarkel was only a motte and bailey so it had no chance of defence. However, I did inflict 50% casualties (2 stacks) before I died. Ive got two other armies in the area (one in Kiev and the other coming up from Tbilisi) so its not a big loss - still raising a replacement though. I probably wont bother taking out the Rus, theyre Orthodox too after all. The Greek Empire extends pretty much over the entire map except for a few Rus regions.

All the original Timurid uber generals have been assassinated or killed in battle, and my assassin keeps killing their more crappy new generals, however ffs, they keep getting new family members, even though I kill a faction leader or heir every other turn. Its really annoying. They never have more than three generals.

The only regions I don't control are:

Helsinki, Riga, Novgorod, Smolensk, Vilnius, Thorn, Halych, Caffa, Ryazan, Moscow - and ever since the disaster at Sarkel - Sarkel.

(I don't know what the regions of the New World are in total)

[Companion Cube]

I've got some Mongol madness on my end, with my sole middle-eastern possessions being a fortress at Acre and a nearby Citadel at Nicosia. Playing as the English, my steadily-shrinking garrison at Acre has managed to destroy (at a conservative estimate) 10,000 Mongol troops, a good quarter of those through the gamey but hilarious "stakes behind the city gate" technique. There's something wonderful about seeing hundreds of elite cavalrymen somersault to their deaths as they charge into a breach.

[The Vortex Empire]

So, I finally made it to the new world - I think Ive sent way too many armies. Heck, Ive got 6 Carracks making their way there apart from the two that have already landed, filled to the gills with heavy cavalry, infantry, and archers. I took Brazil first, Ive got one headed for the Caribbean, and the rest are all going to spam the Aztecs.

Trust me, that's not two much. Each one of the Aztec cities has a full stack in it, and there's around 3 full stack armies hanging around the area. Aztec units have low defense, but their attack ability is ridiculously high. Don't underestimate them. I only sent two full stack armies to the Aztec territory, I managed to take Tlaxcala, but then 3 full stack Aztec armies showed up and kicked my ass.

The Aztecs are way too over powered. I understand game balance, but this is just too much.

[Vympel]

Hmm. I may then wait for the whole fleet to arrive before I attack a single settlement.

I just exchanged maps with them, apparently they have three settlements, then there's the settlement on the Carribean, the one in Brazil, and one in North America? Nothing else? I don't want to have a Carrack heading to Brazil if there's nothing else there (I can't imagine there is, the province filled out completely ...)

[The Vortex Empire]

Hmm. I may then wait for the whole fleet to arrive before I attack a single settlement.

I just exchanged maps with them, apparently they have three settlements, then there's the settlement on the Carribean, the one in Brazil, and one in North America? Nothing else? I don't want to have a Carrack heading to Brazil if there's nothing else there (I can't imagine there is, the province filled out completely ...)

Thats it. One in Brazil, One on Cuba, one in Northern Florida, and 3 in Aztec Mexico.

[Darth Wong]

The Aztec settlements are the only tough ones. The others are all rebel settlements with no reinforcements, easily taken and used to produce new troops (especially if you're Spain and you can make conquistadores).

You should be aware that you can defeat Aztec armies entirely with the use of missile troops and cavalry if you want to; just make sure the missile troops are on "skirmish" mode and run away before engaging, because they have no cavalry of their own and can't run them down.

[Vympel]

I noticed that fighting Natives with Horse Archers - they don't have the range or lethality to effectively respond so they just get massacred. Almost too easy. My heavy infantry aren't having too much trouble with them, however.

[Darth Wong]

I noticed that fighting Natives with Horse Archers - they don't have the range or lethality to effectively respond so they just get massacred. Almost too easy. My heavy infantry aren't having too much trouble with them, however.

Yeah, their archers are weak. I first fought them before the 1.2 patch and they were absurdly powerful, but that was because of the shield bug (which actually made infantry with shields weaker than infantry without shields). After the 1.2 patch, I tried loading up one of my old savegames with an English army composed of armoured swordsmen, retinue longbowmen, and some English knights. Not only was it a horrifically one-sided massacre, but I noticed that the retinue longbowmen were able to inflict severe casualties upon the Aztec archers while dueling at range, while taking almost no casualties themselves. Apparently, their armour is good enough to deflect most Aztec archer fire.

You don't even want to see a battle between musketeers and Aztecs. It's just ... cruel.

[Vympel]

Hehe yeah I just witnessed one- though I've got none of my own arquebusiers, I've been snapping up mercenaries all over, so that every one of my armies heading over to the New World has at least one - I can't wait to play a faction where I can have a whole line of them across my entire battle line.

I tried to take my first Aztec city, and suffered slightly less than 25% casualties in the attempt. The outcome was never in doubt, but my 6x heavy infantry just got so tired that it really slowed things down. I loaded the game after, I might attack in farier weather (it was raining heavily) and massacre them from the wall with my Byz. Guard Archers.

[Darth Wong]

Hehe yeah I just witnessed one- though I've got none of my own arquebusiers, I've been snapping up mercenaries all over, so that every one of my armies heading over to the New World has at least one - I can't wait to play a faction where I can have a whole line of them across my entire battle line.

I tried to take my first Aztec city, and suffered slightly less than 25% casualties in the attempt. The outcome was never in doubt, but my 6x heavy infantry just got so tired that it really slowed things down. I loaded the game after, I might attack in farier weather (it was raining heavily) and massacre them from the wall with my Byz. Guard Archers.

The last time I took a campaign into the New World, I adopted an unconventional tactic: I sent gunpowder units which were not well-suited to city street-fighting, so I besieged the first Aztec city and simply camped outside until a reinforcing army showed up. When a reinforcing army arrived and attacked me, I engaged it as well as the city garrison which came sallying out in support. I destroyed both armies in the field and then walked into the now-empty city.

[Pablo Sanchez]

The Moors might be high up in the running for best army to stomp natives with.

Apart from being ridiculously expensive, Camel Gunners might be the best ranged unit in the game. Their ranged attack seems to be the equal of any in the game in terms of power, range, and accuracy, plus they're mounted on camels so it's relatively easy to position them for vicious enfilading fires and very difficult for the enemy to catch them--especially if you screen them with Christian Guards.

[Vympel]

What about HRE Reiters? Anyone tried them? They've got pistols, not full size muskets, however.

[Dartzap]

I'm currently playing as England, and due to me being a strange fellow, set the time scale to be One turn = One year. so far I have kicked the arse of the Spanish, frogs and Milan, and its fairly late on now, and I now have to turn to the right flank and take on the Krauts. I have just played as them in a custom battle, to see what units they have late game.


....Fuck. All of their late game infantry are 9 foot tall, armour plated, double handed sword wielding Goliath's. Does anyone know if my English Knights/Armoured Swordsmen combined with my Retinue longbowmen will make a dent in them?

[Vympel]

Course they will. Just hit them in the flank with English Knights / Demi-Lancers. Armored Swordsmen are better than anything the HRE has infantry wise (their Forlorn Hope are powerful, but not very well protected).

[Pablo Sanchez]

What about HRE Reiters? Anyone tried them? They've got pistols, not full size muskets, however.

They have a really high attack but a really short range. IIRC what you do is order a charge, which causes them to discharge their pistols the moment before they ram home. A very effective combo. Also they are apparently a surpassingly good router-killer, because they gun the unit down as they're chasing it.

[Vympel]

They have a really high attack but a really short range. IIRC what you do is order a charge, which causes them to discharge their pistols the moment before they ram home. A very effective combo. Also they are apparently a surpassingly good router-killer, because they gun the unit down as they're chasing it.

Elephants are great for that too- I had mercenary elephants (and elephant artillery) in the army that was completely wiped out in Sarkel, and while the battle was going on within they chased down and shot to death two units of heavy horse archers.

I then swung them back around and charged the attacking armies in the rear while they were inside Sarkel, they caused massive casualties before going down.

[Darth Wong]

If you like to get a lot of mercenaries, you should be forewarned that the New World has nothing but shit mercenaries: basically native peasant units. They're good for a garrison in a city that you do not expect to be attacked (just to keep public order up), but they're totally worthless in battle.

[Dartzap]

......Flaming arrows can destroy artillery pieces? Why is it that I'm always so late in finding these things out?

[Companion Cube]

Flush with success after wrecking the last major Mongol army to assault Acre, I get word that the Timurids have arrived. "No problem," I reason. "A ribault to the face will see them off." In the meantime, I launch my invasion of Spain.

For the sake of convenience, I choose the closest three generals to command my invasion armies. Gregory the Cuckold, ("whom men laugh at even as they pass water on his shoes") Perkin the Fat, (an "indolent lump" who is "driven by rage"), and Prince (later King) John, reviled for his gore fetish.

Each army has a heavy artillery component, wings of Retinue Longbowmen and a core of Armoured Swordsmen if the enemy have the stomach to close.

The Prince wins some early glory by leading a bloody assault on the town centre of Zaragoza, longsword in one hand, erection in the other. Perkin lives up to his sobriquet by slouching toward the citadel at Pamplona, whilst Gregory (who has no doubt left his lady wife home for this campaign) bypasses a minor Spanish force on his way to Valencia.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I think I have a candidate for "Worst Feature in the Entire Game"--heretics.

I started a Byzantine game wherein my starting bishop, the fellow in Nicaea, spontaneously decided to turn heretic around turn five (heresy in that province being at about 3%). Since there's absolutely no notification of any kind for heretics, I didn't even notice until he'd converted half the province. Moreover, since he had fairly high starting piety, all the priests that I could produce at that moment had less than a 33% chance to defeat him at trial.

It took me a further six or seven turns to get this bullshit under control, after many failed attempts as he ranged around Anatolia, converting my priests to heretics half the time. Then the priest who successfully burned the last motherfucker at the stake turned around and himself became a heretic the very next turn. The priests I recruited on Rhodes and Crete also became heretics for no reason.

The special torture of this "feature" is that Catholic factions can get Cardinals, who spontaneously receive a pile of free piety points and will never become heretics, so they're pretty much hunter-killer units for heretics and witches. Not playing a Catholic faction? Fuck you, then, you don't get shit. The Venetians were also good natured enough to send all of their cardinals to Thessalonika province, where they converted the shit out of it, unstoppable, and destabilized the whole province.

So around turn 30 I just said "fuck it" and decided to restart the Greek campaign some other time. In my experience, once you get into a "whack-a-mole" cycle with heretics, it can take 10-20 turns of joyless, obnoxious inquisition simulation to get it under control.

I'm not sure why this is even in the game.

Another point about this was that the city of Constantinople starts with a Small Orthodox Church. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not so sure that accurately represents the motherfucking Hagia Sophia.

At times it seems like the game just wants to punish you for playing a non-Catholic faction. I remember in my Russian game, I was laying waste to Poland when they gang-banged me with their mysteriously huge number of Cardinals; four Miter-wearing sons of bitches who moved in a pack, were impossible to assassinate, and were all near max piety, meaning they could convert 15% of a province to Catholic in one turn. They did more damage than the entire Polish army, and they forced me to overextend myself, just so I could take the last Pole settlement and erase their agents from the map.

[white_rabbit]

I feel your pain, I'm just playing a Russian campaign right now, after a real bastard of a game as the Scots, with the fucking pope gibbering at me every other turn to stop sodomizing other catholic nations.

I breathe a sigh of relief as I start as an Orthodox nation, until I realise that the fucking polish appear to have got an unlimited stream of Cardinals deserving of sainthood, and my Orthodox priests turn into Heretics apparently at whim, and indeed, just like your example, they could have incinerated someone a turn before, only to replace him with an even more experienced heretic the turn after.

And whats up with the replacement of family members for the AI ? I must have murdered 15 family members in about 8 turns, only to find out that the Polish royal family seems to adopt freaking peasants.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I feel your pain, I'm just playing a Russian campaign right now, after a real bastard of a game as the Scots, with the fucking pope gibbering at me every other turn to stop sodomizing other catholic nations.

In my campaign as the Scots I found that the pope could always be relied on to help my enemies. After securing all of the Isles but the English starting settlements, I attacked with a castle army out of Wales, took Nottingham, and laid siege to London. Pope warns me, cease for seven turns or be excommunicated. I lift the siege and wait seven turns, during which time the English garrison swells from two bodyguards to half a stack of militia units. When the warning expires, I lay siege again. Very next turn... warned. This happened three times in a row, leaving me to wonder why the pope hated me so much, and to eat the excommunication anyway (because my king was getting old enough that he'd die soon anyway).

EDIT:
In other news, I used CA's own unpacker program to try and introduce mods to my game, but before even monkeying with a single detail I played a little more of my Byzantine campaign, and the game crashed as soon as I went to the battle map. The only thing that changed was that I ran the unpacker program that CA themselves designed, so if anything broke the program, it was that.

Crackerjack work on their part, really.

[Vympel]

I'm not sure why this is even in the game.

Another point about this was that the city of Constantinople starts with a Small Orthodox Church. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not so sure that accurately represents the motherfucking Hagia Sophia.

At times it seems like the game just wants to punish you for playing a non-Catholic faction. I remember in my Russian game, I was laying waste to Poland when they gang-banged me with their mysteriously huge number of Cardinals; four Miter-wearing sons of bitches who moved in a pack, were impossible to assassinate, and were all near max piety, meaning they could convert 15% of a province to Catholic in one turn. They did more damage than the entire Polish army, and they forced me to overextend myself, just so I could take the last Pole settlement and erase their agents from the map.

That's a good bloody point. I know I'm one of the most prolific Byzantine "that's fucked up" complainers, but even that never specifically occured to me - only the fact that the Byzantine "Empire" of 1086 is so chronically underdeveloped as to be a joke.

[GuppyShark]

Wacky, I've always found the Pope to be a benefit to me even when I was neglecting him. The AI constantly gets excommunicated because they keep throwing men at your towns even under the peace of God.

When they're excommunicated, you can butcher them at leisure and even occasionally crusade against them.

[Pablo Sanchez]

That's a good bloody point. I know I'm one of the most prolific Byzantine "that's fucked up" complainers, but even that never specifically occured to me - only the fact that the Byzantine "Empire" of 1086 is so chronically underdeveloped as to be a joke.

There's actually a whole lot of problems with the settlements that start the game in that respect. Hamburg is a castle town with its port in the Baltic? Cordoba, Alexandria, and Cairo are no more developed than London in 1080? Bulgaria starts the game overwhelmingly Catholic? Jeruselam starts the game mostly Christian? What the hell?

EDIT:
Additionally, and somewhat obviating the problem, I just tried something I heard about on another forum. If you surround an agent from another faction (including heretics) with six units, completely boxing him in, and then order a seventh unit into the square he occupies, he'll have nowhere to retreat to and will die instantly. I used this on a Venetian saint-cardinal who was outconverting four separate Orthodox Bishops.

Feels good.