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metamorphosis is decent for AV and I got my charming personality for resilience for my warlock, ofc it helps I wasn't prime target most of the time.

Crown wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

They were also given the Master Demonolgist resistance that the Felpup provided a Warlock (which has been REMOVED from Warlocks by the way) and a 50% reduction to Magical CC as a baseline ability from level 71 so Warlocks wouldn't be that hard a counter to Mages anymore. What did we get to help us against Rogues ....


*crickets chirping*


Seriously, Warlocks are going to be broken for Arena until mid S6/start of S7.

Glad I quite WoW. I got so sick of everyoen whining that Arena was the end all be all of the game and the fact that to a degree Blizzard was listening. This meant balance was all based on Arena combat.

Hello, there are two other large aspects to the game.

Bilbo wrote:

Crown wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

They were also given the Master Demonolgist resistance that the Felpup provided a Warlock (which has been REMOVED from Warlocks by the way) and a 50% reduction to Magical CC as a baseline ability from level 71 so Warlocks wouldn't be that hard a counter to Mages anymore. What did we get to help us against Rogues ....


*crickets chirping*


Seriously, Warlocks are going to be broken for Arena until mid S6/start of S7.

Glad I quite WoW. I got so sick of everyoen whining that Arena was the end all be all of the game and the fact that to a degree Blizzard was listening. This meant balance was all based on Arena combat.

Hello, there are two other large aspects to the game.

Speaking as someone who's been playing for close to a year now: what the hell is Arena? I've heard references to gear for it, but never had occasion to actually do anything involving it.

Molyneux wrote:Speaking as someone who's been playing for close to a year now: what the hell is Arena? I've heard references to gear for it, but never had occasion to actually do anything involving it.

Dueling, but larger.

No, I'm not shitting you. In Arena it is you and your partner(s) running around a small cage trying to kill the other team. The only restriction were some talents could not be accessed and potions cannot be used(But you can get out of combat and eat/drink.).

And it's rewards are easily on par with the best of raiding except more inclined towards the PvP side of combat.

Bilbo wrote:

Crown wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

They were also given the Master Demonolgist resistance that the Felpup provided a Warlock (which has been REMOVED from Warlocks by the way) and a 50% reduction to Magical CC as a baseline ability from level 71 so Warlocks wouldn't be that hard a counter to Mages anymore. What did we get to help us against Rogues ....


*crickets chirping*


Seriously, Warlocks are going to be broken for Arena until mid S6/start of S7.

Glad I quite WoW. I got so sick of everyoen whining that Arena was the end all be all of the game and the fact that to a degree Blizzard was listening. This meant balance was all based on Arena combat.

Hello, there are two other large aspects to the game.

What two aspects?

Raiding is the only other thing that gives gear to any appreciable level in the end game. If you meant BG combat, then you're fucking retarded given the gear is substandard Arena gear, and battles were easily defined by which side understood the goals. May as well just had a bunch of cats versus dogs.

And WoW was never balanced. If you think that, then you really were sucking on some whacky weed for a long time.

Crown wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

They were also given the Master Demonolgist resistance that the Felpup provided a Warlock (which has been REMOVED from Warlocks by the way) and a 50% reduction to Magical CC as a baseline ability from level 71 so Warlocks wouldn't be that hard a counter to Mages anymore. What did we get to help us against Rogues ....


*crickets chirping*


Seriously, Warlocks are going to be broken for Arena until mid S6/start of S7.

Probably longer then that. This one fucked the warlock over even in PvE. I really wonder what they were thinking except "People QQ about 'Locks? NERF BAT!".

I may actually fuck around more with the mage because the sheer hilarity of Arcane, and I wonder what level 80 will give the little chibbers.

Ghost Rider wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:I think the 'locks got the hard end of the nerf hammer because of the fact that not only did they scale better in TBC than anyone predicted, but also because their method of PvPing is just so inherently aggravating. Fear-locking people so they run around unable to do anything while the warlock and anyone else can wail on you just pisses a person off. There are other classes out there that were as power, but NONE so annoying to fight against. It gets pretty terrible when you can beat a warlock down to 5% health and he ends up killing you by the usual "Death Coil - DoT DoT DoT - Fear - Shadow Bolt Shadow Bolt" jazz. That's why Warlocks got mashed.

And I kind of feel bad, cause on Boomkin I kind of eat Warlocks for lunch now. Quickly if my cooldowns are up, since Starfall and Treants just tenderize Warlocks. Melee carves their ass too.

Warlocks got raped because the QQing bitches couldn't grasp the warlock has nearly no burst and only ONE form of CC. Having the ability to drain mana and life is useful when you aren't priority number one, and especially not when it's Arena BS dueling and the other class either goes "CLOTH FODDER!!!" or "Ignore it, kill the healer.". Even at season 3, I laughed when I saw a lock/Druid team up. It was "Oh he'll DoT me, so cyclone the retard, I kill pet, and he'll be useless unless he pulls another pet for Sweeping strike love while the druid runs around like an idiot.". Season 4 was even worse because now matches meant something, it was "Laugh at Warlock, kill his pet, kill his healer...point and laugh as he tries.". In mass PvP, it worked a little better because of Seed of Corruption, but the instant one spots them, they are fodder again.

Fear is a big deal? How? Any of the melee have methods to laugh it off or lock it out enough that they can close the space between and proceed to lay into the poor fucker. And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

S4 warlock pets weren't even killed anymore, there was no need SL/SL barely provided anything against melee. 2v2 and 3v3 against any kind of clothie with a melee on your team (i played rogue/druid in 2v2 and warrior/rogue/druid in 3s, me being the druid) and we just tore through anything in cloth armor. Warlocks pets were just ignored and the warlock was completely and utterly annihilated in seconds, since an undead rogue has so many ways out of fear that by the time you actually get one off, the duration lasts a second during which the druid (me) has rooted you, or you've had crippling on you so you've moved about 5 yards as the rogue just sprints back in and rapes you some more.

Warlocks now are a complete joke, against anyone, no way out of melee, SL nerfed, survivabilty massively nerfed along with damage being nerfed against most classes. For a while they were carried by druids massively in 2s and 3s, because a druid had the raw healing to keep a cloth class up against a melee when they had no escape options (and warlock won't be getting them, the teleport spell they're being given is a big pile of ass), but druids have been nerfed big time.

Civil War Man wrote:1. +% damage bonus to a high-burst spec makes it still a high-burst spec. It doesn't fix the problem, it just makes the burst slightly smaller.
2. Fair enough, though people were also complaining about Ret's PvE damage, and Blizzard wants to bring down their PvE DPS (even if it was for stupid reasons, see my previous post about Ghostcrawler talking about how Ret was topping healing charts). Nerfing abilities that the whole class uses, and abilities that Retribution doesn't use, doesn't fix the problem of burst when you still have the talent tree comprised primarily of burst talents.
3. Also doesn't mean much. If the paladin takes it, it gives a more burst that's only slightly more situational than before. If no one takes it anymore, all it does is hamstring Retribution by giving it worthless talents in an attempt to bring its burst down. Hammer of Wrath is a KO ability, basically a ranged Execute. Reducing the window where it can be used doesn't make it less of a KO ability. And if Ret paladins do take the talent, it gives that KO ability a higher crit chance to a spec that already crits more than most classes.

1. No, as it's a flat increase to damage. Burst damage is by its very nature spikey - like mixing a Crusader Strike in with auto-attack and Judgement of Command back before 3.0 - this is only spikey when we crit - nothing unusual there (and actually, I think warriors & rogues are critting more than us, except perhaps with Judgements in PvE due to Fanaticism).
2. True.
3. Point is it's quite situational - you can't just get the jump on someone and throw a Hammer like you can with Divine Storm or Crusader Strike.

Paladins have received that kind of treatment a lot.

I'll always remember the fact that once upon a time we could solo 40-man raid bosses almost instantly - good old Reckoning .


Crown: spell pushback mechanics have changed completely - maximum now for 1 spell is 1 second of pushback. Longer means stuns, interrupts etc, which depends on skill more than merely being ganked. Of course there are other problems now, but at least that fear casting bar animation isn't accurate any more .

Ghost Rider wrote:but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!"

Easier to cry "moar nerf!" than, Light forbid, have to think about how to deal with a Retadin now .

Teleros wrote:Crown: spell pushback mechanics have changed completely - maximum now for 1 spell is 1 second of pushback. Longer means stuns, interrupts etc, which depends on skill more than merely being ganked. Of course there are other problems now, but at least that fear casting bar animation isn't accurate any more .

Yes I know the spell pushback mechanic has been changed, but it was like that for 4 fucking years, and now they nerf'd us even more.

Seriously, there were so many ways for a Rogue to keep a Warlock from casting Fear it's not even funny, and since they removed kick off the GCD plus energy regeneration has been changed it's almost impossible for a Rogue not to out right get the kick in, and if he doesn't; auto attack, auto attack = 2 pushbacks, gauge wait 5 secs, auto atack, auto attack = 2 pushbacks, kick cooldow is up, ready to lock out shadow!

Skilled, and I mean viciously skilled Rogues don't spam Hemo on a Warlock, they don't really need to, since outside of DC the warlock hasn't any real way to get the Rogue off him other than Fear (from the old SL/SL perspective i.e. no instant Howl and no Shadow Fury). They can just sit on them with auto attack and win. It's mind boggling.

Lord Revan wrote:metamorphosis is decent for AV and I got my charming personality for resilience for my warlock, ofc it helps I wasn't prime target most of the time.

The problem with Meta (well there are heaps, but here's just one) is this; Turn Evil, Fear, Fear, Fear, Banish, Banish, Banish, Turn Evil, oops Meta timer is up! Hell you used to be ENSLAVEABLE.

Ghost Rider wrote:And WoW was never balanced. If you think that, then you really were sucking on some whacky weed for a long time.

Hell. Mute proved that with his World of Roguecraft series; Maydie RANK 14 Warrior ganked by a naked Rogue with a 0.9DPS weapon. Success Blizz!

Crown wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:metamorphosis is decent for AV and I got my charming personality for resilience for my warlock, ofc it helps I wasn't prime target most of the time.

The problem with Meta (well there are heaps, but here's just one) is this; Turn Evil, Fear, Fear, Fear, Banish, Banish, Banish, Turn Evil, oops Meta timer is up! Hell you used to be ENSLAVEABLE.

key to there is timing, time it right (perferbly during a major zerg by your side) and the otherside will go "OMG, what's that?!" when you charge in and by the time they've got their wits about it the timer is up.

Ghost Rider wrote:Warlocks got raped because the QQing bitches couldn't grasp the warlock has nearly no burst and only ONE form of CC. Having the ability to drain mana and life is useful when you aren't priority number one, and especially not when it's Arena BS dueling and the other class either goes "CLOTH FODDER!!!" or "Ignore it, kill the healer.". Even at season 3, I laughed when I saw a lock/Druid team up. It was "Oh he'll DoT me, so cyclone the retard, I kill pet, and he'll be useless unless he pulls another pet for Sweeping strike love while the druid runs around like an idiot.". Season 4 was even worse because now matches meant something, it was "Laugh at Warlock, kill his pet, kill his healer...point and laugh as he tries.". In mass PvP, it worked a little better because of Seed of Corruption, but the instant one spots them, they are fodder again.

Fear is a big deal? How? Any of the melee have methods to laugh it off or lock it out enough that they can close the space between and proceed to lay into the poor fucker. And really only one class ever feared them and that was because of fucking pet, not even the class...and now they are given burst that makes Paladins look sad, but the QQ morons go "PALLY NEED MOAR NERF!!!".

I absolutely agree with you, though I did have some trouble with them when I was feral before, since before 3.0, we didn't have any anti-fear stuff worth anything.

Hell, there were alot of warlocks who might have been dangerous if not for the fact that they RELY on Fears in any fight and won't do anything else until it lands. I've thumped plenty of +450 resilience warlocks who should have rightfully schooled me because they sat there trying to fear me rather than moving around and working me. Like with Retadins now who don't know what to do if you survive them blowing cooldowns at you, their OPness is overrated simply by the fact so many dumbasses who don't know how to play jump on the bandwagon.

Teleros wrote:I'll always remember the fact that once upon a time we could solo 40-man raid bosses almost instantly - good old Reckoning .

Technically that was Protection Paladins. That was a pretty amazing 24 hours, though. Clear most of Molten Core, duel with a raid member for a while, then one-shot Ragnaros.

Ghost Rider wrote:I may actually fuck around more with the mage because the sheer hilarity of Arcane, and I wonder what level 80 will give the little chibbers.

Nothing much is going to change for Mage PvP. They still go OOM super fast (faster now due to no down ranking - GG Blizz screw over casters more), so it's a question of burst or bust for them. Their PvP spec will remain the same though, with one small change;

Instead of 17/0/54 it will be 20/0/51 simply because 'Torment of the Weak' is just TOO good to pass up (Resilience negating talent? Yes Please!)

Crown wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:I may actually fuck around more with the mage because the sheer hilarity of Arcane, and I wonder what level 80 will give the little chibbers.

Nothing much is going to change for Mage PvP. They still go OOM super fast (faster now due to no down ranking - GG Blizz screw over casters more), so it's a question of burst or bust for them. Their PvP spec will remain the same though, with one small change;

Instead of 17/0/54 it will be 20/0/51 simply because 'Torment of the Weak' is just TOO good to pass up (Resilience negating talent? Yes Please!)

True, OOM will hurt, but eh with the changes in healing...it might, and I mean might matter. Still Warriors and Rogues will sit at the top laughing below because they have the ability to. Sorry, those two classes just need someone ELSE's Mana bar to keep their health up and then burst anything down. And yeah Torment of the weak is hilarious.

Ghost Rider wrote:And WoW was never balanced. If you think that, then you really were sucking on some whacky weed for a long time.

Maybe that's because World of Warcraft is designed for PVE! For questing, doing dungeons and raiding. The PVP is nice, but more of an extra to the experience. I was there before the Honor system, before the Battlegrounds, and obviously before the Arena, and guess what? The game worked.

I don't dislike the addition of the PVP content, but I get tired of all the complaining about class imbalance. Of course there is class imbalance! You can't expect classes designed as support for parties/raids to work in the Arena! It's the whole point of having a class-based system! I just wonder, if people are so adamant in playing Arenas in general, why don't they roll a character of a good PVP class specifically for that purpose? Yes, that'll mean that Arenas will end up being just players of a single class, but what the hell, that's what would mean to "balance" the classes in the way some people suggest, it would be to lose all diversity for the purpose of allowing whiners to win in PvP.

Sorry to burst out with this, but I get this crap continually from most WoW players I know. My usual response to balancing complains is to ask the following: "Have you played every single class?"
Most people complain about their problems, having no idea of the difficulties of other players. Fuck that. It's massively multiplayer for a fucking reason. If you want to be the special and unique hero, then fire up a single player game.


And don't get me started on the Retadins. So Blizzard upgrades you class, and they screw up and make it more powerful than they intended... And then you complain when they fix that? Tell me, did you complain when they nerfed whatever class gave you a hard time before? And what the fuck of an attitude is to expect an obvious balancing mistake to stay simply because it benefits you?

Oh well, I guess it all boils down to the same question..... Why aren't most of these people playing Guild Wars, wich was designed for PVP?!


Again, sorry for ranting, and I didn't mean this aganist any particular poster, just aganist the general attitudes shown by a very vocal portion of the WoW player base. Yes, I recently read a few posts on the Official WoW forums.

P.S:

Crown wrote: Hell. Mute proved that with his World of Roguecraft series; Maydie RANK 14 Warrior ganked by a naked Rogue with a 0.9DPS weapon. Success Blizz!

I enjoyed those videos, and agreed with them (my mains being a Warrior and a Rogue), but that fight was either fixed, or the Warrior was lagging, cause it stood around being hit without doing too much about it. In fact, I really enjoyed the beggining of the video in wich a Warrior actually beating a Rogue spawns a myriad whinny posts on the forums, until the devs appease them with a fear nerf. That's precisely the attitude I'm ranting about.

EDIT: Ok, reviewing the Wolrd of Roguecraft videos, I got to these: The Original from World of Roguecraft, and this Homage. Enjoy

LordOskuro wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:And WoW was never balanced. If you think that, then you really were sucking on some whacky weed for a long time.

Maybe that's because World of Warcraft is designed for PVE! For questing, doing dungeons and raiding. The PVP is nice, but more of an extra to the experience. I was there before the Honor system, before the Battlegrounds, and obviously before the Arena, and guess what? The game worked.

Goody, goody gumdrops. I was there when killing Ony meant something to, and Strath and Scholo were ten mans. You want a cookie? Compare E-Peens? They included it because WoW wasn't meant to be Everquest part 2? Even then the original PvP was a grind that made going from nothing to Naxx look fun.

I don't dislike the addition of the PVP content, but I get tired of all the complaining about class imbalance. Of course there is class imbalance! You can't expect classes designed as support for parties/raids to work in the Arena! It's the whole point of having a class-based system! I just wonder, if people are so adamant in playing Arenas in general, why don't they roll a character of a good PVP class specifically for that purpose? Yes, that'll mean that Arenas will end up being just players of a single class, but what the hell, that's what would mean to "balance" the classes in the way some people suggest, it would be to lose all diversity for the purpose of allowing whiners to win in PvP.

Because of time investment perhaps?

Whenever I hear this, it's people going "Just reroll!". I am glad that you can handily dump a few days to get a character to the appropriate level, then get the gear, to then participate and hope you show the skill one expects out of a cat.

And another note, those people must play this half assed game for competition. No other reason. Nu-uh. Nothing other then raw competition. My god, you cannot be this stupid to not see this slippery slope. Even if not serious, this is a dumbass arguement to use.

Sorry to burst out with this, but I get this crap continually from most WoW players I know. My usual response to balancing complains is to ask the following: "Have you played every single class?"
Most people complain about their problems, having no idea of the difficulties of other players. Fuck that. It's massively multiplayer for a fucking reason. If you want to be the special and unique hero, then fire up a single player game.

I have. And this rant "People don't get other classes!!!". Strangely they should, Blizzard if anyone should. Thus complaining and getting non answers like "We are looking into the matter until we can determine the root possibilities" does piss people off. WoW Beta had Paladins as literally a different class in many respects, then they give them vanilla shit. Warriors? Had a miss rating of around 25%...with a two hander. This was from the onset of PvE. And there are still a few prevalent vanilla Beta WoW problems. So after sifting through the QQers of the month, Blizz still doesn't fix a few of the oldest shit. What are they? Try Charge, Blink and any other ability that grants that function in a few areas of Tyr's hand and couple other choice areas. They fail or say no path, even if the ground is flat and level.

And Blizz doesn't even balance classed in PVE, dumbass. You think it was fun to watch as my guild goes from good to "Uh, shit reroll Shamans guys, M'uru needs at least 4!". So eveyone has literally alternates that are halfassed geared because Blizz cannot fucking balance. I mean M'uru was nothing more then Four Horsemen of old(Need 8 warriors in T3 4 piece to rotate? Sorry, Blizzard dropped the ball that time). This isn't even getting that many raids became "Okay, need more healers. Oh this encounter we need to drop about 3 of you, sorry."

And don't get me started on the Retadins. So Blizzard upgrades you class, and they screw up and make it more powerful than they intended... And then you complain when they fix that? Tell me, did you complain when they nerfed whatever class gave you a hard time before? And what the fuck of an attitude is to expect an obvious balancing mistake to stay simply because it benefits you?

Because other classes do complain at times. And then there's the fun to watch my guild's retadin go from decent DPS because of PURE FUCKING LUCK. The entire DPS of the retadin is burst. Then to watch him go into finally large burst that was overpowered in the goddamn motherfucking BETA, and reported MULTIPLE times. What did Blizz say? We're still checking. People laid out level 80 DPS with the gear they could get and it was high, let alone 70. But did Blizz even listen? Course not, they had to push it onto live, have the QQers shit a brick so they could scream. And Blizz's solution? Fuck over the Paladin's abilities, regardless of the fact there are other trees.

And going "Do you complain of other classes?" is fucking crock. Is any team or guild comprised of only one class? No? Then there's your answer. Only retards use this reasoning.

Oh well, I guess it all boils down to the same question..... Why aren't most of these people playing Guild Wars, wich was designed for PVP?!


Again, sorry for ranting, and I didn't mean this aganist any particular poster, just aganist the general attitudes shown by a very vocal portion of the WoW player base. Yes, I recently read a few posts on the Official WoW forums.

They are still dumbass rants given in the four years, how badly Blizzard has handled some of their high end issues. I mean they want to appeal to both casual and the hardcore and it is sad how many mistakes they do to both sides because their developers are trying to appeal to their side alone.

As for leaving WoW, that's fucking stupid given they may just be some other reason to stay that is more enjoyable then leaving.

You know, the above thread is why I'm glad to be one of those oddities that enjoys questing, the low levels, the mid levels, the high level, exploring, socializing, battlegrounds, and, oh yes, raiding on the weekends. The only thing I haven't done is the arenas and I don't expect to because, frankly, I'm just not interested. It really is just a game to me, I just don't get worked up about some of these details.

Is it perfect? No, of course not. Would I like it to be improved? Of course. But I still find it entertaining, I'm planning to get the expansion on Thursday, and I'll keep playing awhile yet.

Broomstick wrote:You know, the above thread is why I'm glad to be one of those oddities that enjoys questing, the low levels, the mid levels, the high level, exploring, socializing, battlegrounds, and, oh yes, raiding on the weekends. The only thing I haven't done is the arenas and I don't expect to because, frankly, I'm just not interested. It really is just a game to me, I just don't get worked up about some of these details.

Is it perfect? No, of course not. Would I like it to be improved? Of course. But I still find it entertaining, I'm planning to get the expansion on Thursday, and I'll keep playing awhile yet.

To be honest, I wish they settled more on this particular then not. Most of us do enjoy the game as a game. If not, then said person needs to switch to decaf. As for most of the bits you talked of? Most I hope enjoy that. The game is nice to take it easy to smell the roses then endure the final rat race part, wherein they punish you for not being "Class A".

As for the raid level you enjoy is after the E-peen "I must be first in the world/continent/server!!!" guilds go through and it isn't fun. You try to divine Blizz's insane plan of what one needs to do, hope your people and classes make up can...and then grind glass for hours. Then after this, Blizzard goes "Why is only 1% of the population seeing this instance?! Maybe we should tweek it down.". I really wish they made it into a better middle ground. One shouldn't have to grind glass to enjoy the game. That's not challenge, that's pure attrition and it's fucking stupid four years later.

Saddest part is more then not, people in the beta do come up with the problem lists on a variety of things, but Blizzard insists on internal testing that seems to divine something that doesn't sync up with the rest of the world and claim that everyone else was using a faulty system.

LordOskuro wrote:Maybe that's because World of Warcraft is designed for PVE! For questing, doing dungeons and raiding. The PVP is nice, but more of an extra to the experience. I was there before the Honor system, before the Battlegrounds, and obviously before the Arena, and guess what? The game worked.

Not if you were on a PvP realm it didn't. You were either a Rogue (GOD LORD ALMIGHTY AMONG ALL THE CLASSES) or fucked.

LordOskuro wrote:I enjoyed those videos, and agreed with them (my mains being a Warrior and a Rogue), but that fight was either fixed, or the Warrior was lagging, cause it stood around being hit without doing too much about it. In fact, I really enjoyed the beggining of the video in wich a Warrior actually beating a Rogue spawns a myriad whinny posts on the forums, until the devs appease them with a fear nerf. That's precisely the attitude I'm ranting about.

In the first example was Mute showing how 99% of the Rogue population were TOO DAMN STUPID to know their own class. Look how he fights; he uses his combos on finishing moves ... on plate. He uses Blind, but doesn't trust it, backpeddles, keeps himself in combat so he can't restealth and then pops cooldowns indiscriminately and tries to tank the Warrior. All in all, he forgets the FIRST thing that makes a Rogue work; control.

If you watch the rest of the videos he demonstrates this awesome control; Trickery for example is stun locked from 100% -> 0% and immediately releases. THAT was a master of his class (ironically a class he hated and rolled just show how fucking ridiculous the class was). Maydie did everything we expected Maydie to do, FFS he even used a limited invulnerability pot! Mute pwn'd his ass, not because he was so much a better player than Maydie, but because the class he was on (a Rogue) was either the only class Blizzard got RIGHT or the most broken (in terms of over powered) class in the game.

LordOskuro wrote:EDIT: Ok, reviewing the Wolrd of Roguecraft videos, I got to these: The Original from World of Roguecraft, and this Homage. Enjoy

The Mushroom one still gets me.

Crown wrote: Not if you were on a PvP realm it didn't. You were either a Rogue (GOD LORD ALMIGHTY AMONG ALL THE CLASSES) or fucked.

Or a prot paladin. We eat rogues.

Sharp-kun wrote:

Crown wrote: Not if you were on a PvP realm it didn't. You were either a Rogue (GOD LORD ALMIGHTY AMONG ALL THE CLASSES) or fucked.

Or a prot paladin. We eat rogues.

True, but you're everyone else's little play thing, especially to Warlocks. hehe

Crown wrote:

Sharp-kun wrote:

Crown wrote: Not if you were on a PvP realm it didn't. You were either a Rogue (GOD LORD ALMIGHTY AMONG ALL THE CLASSES) or fucked.

Or a prot paladin. We eat rogues.

True, but you're everyone else's little play thing, especially to Warlocks. hehe

Yeah. I mean certain specific specs could ruin a rogue, but like you pointed out...you were raped by the other.

It reminds of when I saw a Protect Pally/Ret Pally/Priest team I played against a few times(Enough so that I remembered them when we hit higher rankings and we somehow got slotted against them...all hail Blizzard's matchup system). They weren't bad for a season 3 team, the Ret pally was well armed, the Protect was PvE/PvP mix and the Priest was decent, but after they focused on the Rogue, me(Warrior) and the priest laughed as we killed the Retadin, killed the priest and kinda stared at the Protect Pally. I hamstrung and piercing howled him for a long time as he tried to hurt me, or my priest. He left because we didn't want to outright kill him...it was too easy.

Ghost Rider wrote:Yeah. I mean certain specific specs could ruin a rogue, but like you pointed out...you were raped by the other.

Simply put, on the Warlock forums there was a joke; What's a Rogue's counter-class? A Human Rogue. Simple as that.

While certain classes/specs could theoretically beat a Rogue, none of them would ever succeed, simply due to the long, long, long list of 'outs' a Rogue gets.

Crown wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:Yeah. I mean certain specific specs could ruin a rogue, but like you pointed out...you were raped by the other.

Simply put, on the Warlock forums there was a joke; What's a Rogue's counter-class? A Human Rogue. Simple as that.

While certain classes/specs could theoretically beat a Rogue, none of them would ever succeed, simply due to the long, long, long list of 'outs' a Rogue gets.

Saddest part is how fucking true that Rogue statement was. Human Rogues(When perception wasn't nerfed) had the ultimate racial against Rogues. You saw the other rogue first and could rotate through your set up. Now it's helpful...kinda. The new human ability is ugly because you can have two trinkets and you can easily compensate for either resilience or power, but is not the stealth destroyer that perception was.

Another point is I remember when the warrior was considered the Rogue counter class because of Plate and Overpower. What a joke now, but I remember when that was given as the end all be all answer.

And I'm sorry to be essentially spamming this thread now, but since we were talking about Roguecraft earlier;

My favourite bit; Clicky Linky!