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Thanas' ideas seem good, but might I suggest we also allow for point expenditure to raise a planet's level?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Thanas' ideas seem good, but might I suggest we also allow for point expenditure to raise a planet's level?

Well, homeworlds would be off limits, of course.

I am also against point expenditure to raise a planet's level. In the real world the state cannot just raise a city (at least not within the market economy). Sustainable growth is needed for that one.

We cannot allow for every player raising up every world of his.

However, I have amended my rules with this:

Players may also raise a planet via a combination of trade pacts. The player can compensate for up to 4 missing trade pacts by spending 500 points for each missing trade pact. However, the player cannot raise up a world without any trade pact at all and is limited to spending a grand total of 2000 point in lieu of a trade pact. Furthermore, the following wait times have to be observed:

1 year for a colony
2 years for a minor world
4 years for an average world
8 years for a major world

No planet can be raised up to Homeworld status.

Also, as I have claimed two destroyed planets, I shall have to adjust the rules for my case. It would be very bad for me to just magically rebuilt them and then claim that I have suddenly two new worlds.


Thus, I propose the following (call it lex Thanas if you will):

Planetary reconstruction:
Planetary reconstruction involves extensive rebuilding after a BDZ or heavy bombardment. Feeding a reconstructing planet and keeping the status quo will also take off points of your industrial strength.

No player may reconstruct more than two worlds simultaneously except in case of war. Mods may veto any choice made. If the player already has a homeworld, he may not take another homeworld for reconstruction.

Reconstructing worlds have to be fed in order to keep the status quo. This will take the following points:

Colony: -8 points
minor: - 25 points
average: - 50 points
major: - 100 points
homeworld: -200 points

The process of reconstructing a world does take the following number of trade pacts:

- colony 1 trade pact
- minor world 2 trade pacts
- average world 4 trade pacts
- major world 8 trade pacts
- homeworld 12 trade pacts

The player may compensate entirely with industrial points in order to do so. However, the penalty for doing so is far greater - he has to spend 500 points per missing trade pact as well as 500 points for every two trade pacts he replaces with points. Reconstruction also takes time, regardless of points spent:

1 year for a colony
2 years for a minor world
4 years for an average world
8 years for a major world
12 years for a homeworld

Without any investment, a ruined world will gradually pick itself back up, however this will take far longer.

Without reconstruction, a player will have to wait the following time:
6 years for a colony
12 years for a minor world
24 years for an average world
48 years for a major world
96 years for a homeworld


For example:
Spoiler

Thanas currently holds the ruined world of Coruscant. Without spending anything, the planet will pick itself back up in 96 years. As he will be long dead by then, however, Thanas therefore has to spend 12 trade pacts on Coruscant and/or 9.000 industrial points. He will also have to wait at least 12 years in order for Coruscant to be back and running. Furthermore, he has to spend at least 200 points a year in order to keep the status quo.

Also, Bean, it looks like The Romulan Republic had already claimed Myrkr before you.

You know what, I'm a bit heavy on starfighters right now but I kind of like it that way. Since half my empire is supposed to be secret I can't get away with flaunting huge fleets of stardestroyers anyway, and starfighters are a lot easier to hide and move around so no-one really knows how many of them you've got.

Quick question about the trade pacts: Am I understanding it right when I say that you can form only one trade pact with any given player, so that the total number of trade pacts you can possibly sign is limited to the number of players playing the game? Because that kind of limits the number of planets you can uplift, doesn't it?

SiegeTank wrote:Quick question about the trade pacts: Am I understanding it right when I say that you can form only one trade pact with any given player, so that the total number of trade pacts you can possibly sign is limited to the number of players playing the game?

Yes, that is what I had in mind.

Because that kind of limits the number of planets you can uplift, doesn't it?

Otherwise one might powergame to ridiculous levels and voila, suddenly an obscure planet like Ryloth is a major world.

Master_Baerne wrote:Shady - It's the light ships which were causing my confusion. I've got twice as many cruiser as you, which eats up a lot of points. May have to change that...

Hah...I knew my math couldn't be wrong.

Thanas, I like your economy rules. Nice Work. It keeps things nice and simple and prevents powergaming.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Man... I was thinking that Shady and I could form one of those "Adeptus Mechanicus Allied with the God Emperor" that sort of thingy.

I love this idea.

Self-confidence: One of the prime traits required in an Evil Emperor.

I did a quick read of the economic rules and I like what I saw. However I wonder how we are going to price ground armies?

Wow, Thanas. I like the economic stuff, but... wow. "Accounting Tycoon" indeed.

Should we just make things easier by saying that a fleet costs 1/2 it's points to maintain, and 1/4 to maintain in mothballs?

I'll pore over the ecomomic and trade rule ideas, but I have to admit I like the idea that with deft trade diplomacy one can gain points, meaning we are no longer reliant on mere conquest to increase value.

darthkommandant wrote:I did a quick read of the economic rules and I like what I saw. However I wonder how we are going to price ground armies?

I was thinking we could do the same thing with Armies that is being done with Fighters: your worlds and ships come with their basic load, and you only "pay" for what you want to buy above and beyond that.

Here is a sample of how I arranged my armies in the SBcom game. It is super-simplified, but works.


Heavy Armored Division: 14,150 troops
1 Regiment of Heavy Infantry------------2,000 soldiers/80 AT-ATs
1 Regiment of Medium Infantry-----------2,000 soldiers/80 AT-TEs
1 Regiment of Light Armored Support-------800 soldiers/160 AT-STs
1 Regiment of Heavy Armored Support-----2,000 soldiers/80 HAVw A6 Juggernauts
1 Company of Armored Reconnaisance--------200 soldiers/200 AT-PTs
1 Company of Heavy Artillery------------2,800 soldiers/100 SPHAT
1 Company of AT-ESW support teams---------200 soldiers/50 AT-ESWs
1 Company of ATAA-------------------------150 soldiers/50 ATAAs
1 Maintenance Battalion-----------------1,000 soldiers
1 Medical Support Battalion-------------1,000 soldiers
1 HQ Support/Logistics Battalion--------2,000 soldiers/80 Juggernaut Command Carriers
Heavy Armored troops wearAlliance Trooper armor and carry A280 rifles standard.


Repulsorlift Division: 13,000 troops
2 Gravborne Regiments-------------------4,000 soldiers/160 LAATis
1 Regiment of Gungan Marines------------2,000 marines/80 LAATis
1 Armored Battalion---------------------1,000 soldiers/200 KAAC Freerunners
1 Battalion of Armored Fast Attack------1,000 soldiers/500 T-47A1 Dunespeeders
1 Battalion of Scouts-------------------1,000 soldiers/500 Speeder Bikes
1 Maintenance Battalion-----------------1,000 soldiers
1 Medical Support Battalion-------------1,000 soldiers
1 HQ Support/Logistics Battalion--------2,000 soldiers/80 RMCC Replusorlift Mobile Command Centers
Repulsorlift troops wear Alliance Scout Trooper armor and carry A280 rifles standard.


Droid Division: 14,100 Droids
4 Battle Droid Regiments----------------8,960 Droids/80 MTTs
1 Super Battle Droid Regiment-----------2,240 Droids/10 MTTs
1 Droideka Regiment---------------------2,240 Droidekas
1 Armored Battalion-----------------------320 Droids/80 AATs
1 Battalion Droid "Hailfire" AAA-----------80 Droid vehicles
1 Gunship Company-------------------------100 Droid Gunships
1 Maintenance Company---------------------160 Pit Droids
Droid Divisions will carry E-11/N1s standard.


We should work out a point system for various strengths.

Any planetary militia: 1 point to raise, 0 points to maintain.
Planetary Militia is the citizenry, mobilized with what is available and using converted civilian vehicles for mobility. It cannot consist of more than 25% actual military personnel (current or former) or military vehicles. Militia will have no heavy assets (ie, AT-ATs, LAAT/i, etc)

Light Infantry: 2 points to raise, 1 point to maintain.
Organized, trained, equipped with man-portable gear & weapons, some vehicles for transport but no combat vehicles.

Repuslorlift Divisions: 4 points to raise, 2 points to maintain.
Troops and vehicles kitted with Repulsorlift vehicles, including LAAT/i, MMT, MTT, T-47s, etc.

Heavy Divisions: 5 points to riase, 3 points to maintain.
Heavy armored and troop-transport divisions. Vehicles are typically Walkers of various sorts.

SPECIAL UNITS:

An "elite" unit (Army or Space) would be +5 to cost, +3 to maintain.

Elite Unit examples:
501st Stormtroopers
181st TIE
Rogue Squadron
Wraith Squadron

So this is what I worked out for the basic load that comes with my planets. It works out for 1 free division for every 100 points spent on a world.
Homeworld- 6 divsions
Major----- 4 divisions
Average--- 2 divisions
Minor----- 1 divisions

Is this what you had in mind Coyote?

darthkommandant wrote:So this is what I worked out for the basic load that comes with my planets. It works out for 1 free division for every 100 points spent on a world.
Homeworld- 6 divsions
Major----- 4 divisions
Average--- 2 divisions
Minor----- 1 divisions

Is this what you had in mind Coyote?

Well, in a way. Bear in mind, though, that you should probably up that to "Army" rather than "Division".

A Homeworld planet defended by 6 Divisions could currently be outmatched by Italy.

A Division is approximately 15,000 to 25,000 soldiers, depending of course on type, mission, etc.

Gather together anywhere from 2 to 6 Divisions or so to form a Corps, then put together 2 to 6 Corps to form an Army. Now we're talking.

That seems eminently reasonable.

I could have sworn that an Acclaimator ship couldn't even carry half the equipment of a heavy division though.

That is why EU minimalism is retarded. 3 million stormtroopers couldn't even successfully invade Earth without the threat of a BDZ, let alone planets with trillions of people.

Beowulf wrote:That is why EU minimalism is retarded. 3 million stormtroopers couldn't even successfully invade Earth without the threat of a BDZ, let alone planets with trillions of people.

That stats was based on what was written in that guide written by Saxton.

If we really want to go realism, we'd need troop ships the size of those in Warhammer 40K where they carted around millions of Imperial Guards, together with their equipment, which included Super Heavy Tanks.

Thanas wrote:I am not sure I am qualified to be a mod, but I would love to keep track of who bought what. So maybe sort of me being the recordkeeper.

Anyway, what do you all say to my model of points allotment?

You can (actually, should) be the go-to guy for Economics. So if you're willing to do random checks on people's points and allocations, or respond to questions about fishy accounting, I'd love to have you aboard as Economics Mod.

Okay, I am compiling a one-page go-to list for the rules we've discussed so far so that we can pick them apart or accept them. I'll have it up soon.

Siege, could you elaborate on what your envoy has to say? It's difficult to respond to nothing of substance.

Master_Baerne wrote:Siege, could you elaborate on what your envoy has to say? It's difficult to respond to nothing of substance.

Oh, he's got all the old platitudes to offer: we come in peace, we'd like to establish diplomatic ties the Star Empire in order to foster good relations in the future, and we'd like to negotiate one of them fancy trade deals Thanas described. That sort of thing.

Got it.

Coyote wrote:Wow, Thanas. I like the economic stuff, but... wow. "Accounting Tycoon" indeed.

Should we just make things easier by saying that a fleet costs 1/2 it's points to maintain, and 1/4 to maintain in mothballs?

I think this is a bit too penalizing. Real ships do not cost half their value in points and it would heavily penalize players with small empires...say for example I have an empire with only 1100 points a year to spare. An empire that small is unable to field more than a sector fleet - if we assume a player spends 50% on infrastructure and 50% on field units (which is already heavy militaristic sized), he/she would only be able to spend ~500 a year. Given that a good superiority fleet easily clocks in at 400 already, this means that the player can not afford to field large fleets in case of war. That might have been the general idea, but taking over smaller empires should come at a heavy cost.

I'll pore over the ecomomic and trade rule ideas, but I have to admit I like the idea that with deft trade diplomacy one can gain points, meaning we are no longer reliant on mere conquest to increase value.

That was the idea.

Coyote wrote:

Thanas wrote:I am not sure I am qualified to be a mod, but I would love to keep track of who bought what. So maybe sort of me being the recordkeeper.

Anyway, what do you all say to my model of points allotment?

You can (actually, should) be the go-to guy for Economics. So if you're willing to do random checks on people's points and allocations, or respond to questions about fishy accounting, I'd love to have you aboard as Economics Mod.

It would be an honor to serve, mylord.


Oh, and if nobody minds me claiming them, I'll take the 181st. I'll subtract 6 points for purchase and two for maintenance, which is 6x the cost of a Tie-Defender squadron.

Also: DarthKommandant, there are no 3000m shipyards. Do you mean the 2200m shipyard per chance?

Thanas wrote:Also, Bean, it looks like The Romulan Republic had already claimed Myrkr before you.

Damn I left an R off my spelling of Myrkyr so my seach missed it

Well consider this our first declared war, to many fucking Sith to not secure the Galaxies only supply of Ysalamir.

On the plus side Romulan picked poorly while Myrkyr is right next door to me, all his other planets Tatooine is on the southern arm(With Geonosis nearby), Kamino is a quarter turn up from Tatoonie. And Kessel is another quarter turn up from Kamino Dantooine is on the other side of the galaxy from any of them.

Which means while most of his planets are scattered around the rim. Dantoonie and Myrkyr are on the other side of the galaxy from his planets. While most of his planets while in different sectors are at least a hour or two apart by Hyperdrive, Myrkyr and Dantoonie are days away from his holdings.

Which means barter, bribery or war I'm talking Myrkyr. But I will edit it off my list for now.