StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Yeah she seems the kind of person who wouldn't get that when US government says to you "pay up or else" you don't call them on their bluff, cause they don't bluff, they don't have to cause they got legally the power to take what they want by force if need be.

Apparently, after telling my landlord she doesn't have the cash to pay him, Pumpkin Harpy asked him to "have a talk with Broom" about laying off her.

Apparently, after the shouting died down, she had to look up some of the profanity she hadn't heard before.

Simon_Jester wrote:And, for all I know, loan sharks with legbreakers on retainer at the same time.

I doubt Pumpkin Harpy would have gone to any of them before Broomstick got the courts involved. Why would Pumpkin Harpy go to a loan shark when she doesn't think she has any need to pay her debts ?

After the court judgement, she's got a big problem getting a loan. Even loan sharks who employ legbreakers still prefer to have the loan repaid. Plus they don't want to get involved with the courts. So I can't see her getting a loan from them.

Who the knows if she's dealt with a loan shark? Broomstick alluded to such a thing at one point, I think. That's what got me thinking about it. You'd have to ask her.

The sad part is that I have about a dozen students who I can see falling into this complex- they don't have a mental model for the idea of authorities punishing them for their wrongful actions other than "why you picking on me?"

I don't know if the Pumpkin Harpy has gotten involved with loan sharks or not - although with her current reputation of not paying I doubt any of them would loan her money. They don't really want to have enforcers break legs, what loan sharks want is money. Hiring thugs costs them money.

I do know some of the people who came into shop likely had not-quite-legal occupations. I never asked, and none of them volunteered, but between the various tattoos and the occasional overheard cell phone conversation I'm pretty sure some of the customers were not the sort of people you fuck with.

Frankly, I don't want to know about such things.

So, how likely is it that she's going to see the writing on the wall and get the fuck out of town? She doesn't seem to have much in the way of ability to pay all of what she owes even if she had the sense to do so, which she doesn't, and there's the whole tax thing waiting in the wings. Once it sinks in how much trouble she's in I imagine fleeing and trying to set herself up elsewhere is going to sound pretty good to her.

From the sounds of it, she doesn't have enough money to flee.

Does she even own a car, or will she have to steal one that she has 'borrowed' ?

She's also apparently rather old (not ancient necessarily but not young), mentally inflexible (why she's trying the same things over and over no matter how much they don't work), and trying to hold down an actual job even as she deals with this.

I have a sense she's more likely to melt down in place than to do anything dramatic like fleeing the jurisdiction.

Yep, my vote is for in-place meltdown.

Broomstick wrote:Apparently, after the shouting died down, she had to look up some of the profanity she hadn't heard before.

Well, there's the upside for her: Broader education.

Broomstick wrote:I don't know if the Pumpkin Harpy has gotten involved with loan sharks or not - although with her current reputation of not paying I doubt any of them would loan her money. They don't really want to have enforcers break legs, what loan sharks want is money. Hiring thugs costs them money.

I do know some of the people who came into shop likely had not-quite-legal occupations. I never asked, and none of them volunteered, but between the various tattoos and the occasional overheard cell phone conversation I'm pretty sure some of the customers were not the sort of people you fuck with.

Frankly, I don't want to know about such things.

She may get desperate enough to send them after YOU, though.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

She might try, but she has a pretty low batting average when it comes to dealing with people who have the power to hurt her, so I doubt Broomstick has much to worry about there. A font of charisma and charm this person is not.

fgalkin wrote:

Broomstick wrote:I don't know if the Pumpkin Harpy has gotten involved with loan sharks or not - although with her current reputation of not paying I doubt any of them would loan her money.

She may get desperate enough to send them after YOU, though.

They don't work for free, either - how the hell is she going to pay them? Especially with her reputation?

I imagine that "No really, THIS OTHER PERSON has your money, go take it from them!" is something that people in that line of work hear a lot.

Another hearing this morning. The Pumpkin Harpy showed up with $200 in cash, intended for this month's and next month's payments. She claims she tried to pay twice but wasn't able to. One time she attempted to pay with a personal check which, apparently, the court system was not willing to accept from her (I can't imagine why not... ). The judge said $200 in cash showed a good faith attempt to pay, and we could either have that, or the bank accounts, but not both. We opted for $100/month over roughly 3.5 years over $600 today and that's it. Here's hoping we won't regret that. I should get the money in 10 days to two weeks.

She has been sternly warned about just how fucking serious this payment is.

My spouse pointed out that if she goes to jail she'll still have to work off the debt - wages in jail are something stupidly ridiculous like $0.25/hour so it will take a LOOOOOOONG time if she goes that route. With 8% interest still accruing.

She was also warned that she is to go strictly through the courts, and it's on record that the client (that's me) wants all money to be sent to the lawyer first as this will help document what is and isn't actually paid.

Given that I'm unemployed at the moment I sure as hell could use a couple hundred bucks.

So a choice of $600 today or $100 / mo for 3.5 years?

Yep. If she pays for just 7 months I come out ahead, but if she pays for 7 months she'll probably pay most/all of it.

Given her finances, there was apparently some concern that if we took the bank accounts it would be enough to push her over the edge into complete destitution. That's not my intention. My intention is to get paid. While I would like to be paid in full immediately that just can't happen, she simply doesn't have that much money on hand at the moment. I'll accept payment over time, as long as I get paid.

She was also told to re-issue the W-2 (tax document) based on the payroll stubs I actually received. Since she apparently doesn't have those records any more we'll be going off MY records. This will, incidentally, keep her from committing tax fraud (at least in the particular case) while making it less likely that I will capture the attention of the IRS. While I feel confident I could survive an audit I don't particularly care to be subject to one. Nothing screams "go through everyone's records!" quite like bizarro documentation and contesting of documentation. Audits are like lawsuits - even if you're vindicated it could still be a costly process to go through.

Wait, did you get the $200 she turned up with in the end?

Also total nerd trivia nitpick here but for that Firefly quote. It should be "Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity". It's explicitly stated in the show that the ship does not take a 'The' on the front.

In accordance with the judge's instructions, she had to pay that $200 cash to the clerk of the court. The court system will then turn around and send a check to my lawyer. So yes, I get it, but not immediately. Why do they do it that way? I think it's because she now owes the court the money, it's no longer a payment to me (at least not directly). Failure to pay is not a failure to pay her debt to me, it's contempt of court and can subject her to jail time.

I just read your thread, Broomstick (who could ignore a quote from Mal?). As a small-business owner I think it should be required reading for such. I remember right after I purchased my business, sitting down for the first time with my thankfully excellent accountant who's first days' piece of excellent advice included "Pay your employees!" Of course I will, I thought. Duh. Never occurred to me not to. It's been done trying to guess at what's behind the level of stupid here, but this is a lesson that needs to be shared, and thank you for doing so, especially in the details. Kudos to your lawyer, congratulations on your perseverence and courage and any victory you can glean from this, and the best of luck to you and your family. I look forward to reading how this pans out.

As it happens, I just happen to have an update today. My lawyer received the check from the Porter County Courts today. I should get my 2/3 of it early next week. Yay!

TOSDOC wrote:I remember right after I purchased my business, sitting down for the first time with my thankfully excellent accountant who's first days' piece of excellent advice included "Pay your employees!"

I wonder how many people not paying their employees it took for your accountant to think that was necessary.

The answer is to many.

Never underestimate the power of human greed or stupidity, I wouldn't be surprised if there was quite a few people who would leave wages unpaid if they thought it would improve their own gains and they though they could get away with it and then there's of course the people who are too focused on their own problems or simply too dumb to get that you need to pay people for their work.

bilateralrope wrote:

TOSDOC wrote:I remember right after I purchased my business, sitting down for the first time with my thankfully excellent accountant who's first days' piece of excellent advice included "Pay your employees!"

I wonder how many people not paying their employees it took for your accountant to think that was necessary.

I don't think I even want to know.