BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Out of curiosity, how the fuck did they determine that? I mean almost two hundred people died, I would think that the size of bomb required to do that would leave a suicide bomber as a reddish mist at most.
I do not know, I just read it as a last hour report in a portuguese reference newspaper, with no further explanation from Madrid. So, take it as unconfirmed news. Here it is, in Portuguese:
www.publico.pt wrote:ETA e Al-Qaeda na Lista de Suspeitos do Atentado de Madrid
Por NUNO RIBEIRO, Madrid
Sexta-feira, 12 de Março de 2004
As brigadas "Abu Hafs al-Masri", organização terrorista ligada à Al-Qaeda, de Osama bin Laden, reivindicaram ontem a autoria dos atentados que provocaram na capital espanhola uma verdadeiro massacre - 192 mortos e 1427 feridos (balanço provisório).
Numa carta dirigida ao jornal árabe "Al-Quds Al-Arabi", o grupo afirmou ser o responsável da chacina que tinha como objectivo destruir a mais emblemática estação ferroviária da capital espanhola: a de Atocha. Foi para aquele diário árabe, o segundo mais importante depois do "Al-Hayat" e também com sede em Londres, que a Al-Qaeda reivindicara anteriores atentados na Turquia e a explosão que destruiu o quartel-general da ONU em Bagdad.
Na mesma reivindicação, as brigadas assumiram ainda o atentado cometido na terça-feira, em Istambul, contra uma loja maçónica. De acordo com o texto reivindicativo, a acção em Madrid terá sido uma retaliação pelo apoio de Espanha aos Estados Unidos e Grã-Bretanha na guerra no Iraque. "O esquadrão da morte conseguiu penetrar no coração dos Cruzados europeus e infligir um golpe doloroso a um dos pilares da aliança cruzada", refere o documento. Também à hora do fecho desta edição, fontes da investigação espanhola admitiam a presença de um terrorista suicida num dos comboios que ontem foi pelos ares na capital espanhola.
Babelfish said that http://www.publico.pt wrote:
ETA and Al-Qaeda in the List of Suspected of the Attempted against one of Madrid
For NUNO RIBEIRO, Madrid
Friday, 12 of March of 2004
The brigades "Abu Hafs al-Masri", on terrorist organization to the Al-Qaeda, of Osama bin Laden, had yesterday demanded the authorship of the attempted against ones that they had provoked in the Spanish capital a true slaughter - 192 dead and 1427 wounded (temporary balance sheet).
In a letter directed to the Arab periodical "Al-Quds Al-Arabi", the group affirmed to be the responsible one of the slaughter that had as objectivo to destroy the most emblematic railroad station of the Spanish capital: of Atocha. It was for that daily Arab, as the most important one after the "Al-Hayat" and also with headquarters in London, that the Al-Qaeda demands previous attempted against in Turkey and the explosion that the quarter-general of the ONU in Bagdad destroyed
In the same claim, the brigades had still assumed the committed attempted against one in the tuesday, in Istambul, against a maçónica store. In accordance with the vindicative text, the share in Madrid will have been a retaliation for the support of Spain to the United States and Great-Britain in the war in Iraq. "the death squad obtained to penetrate in the heart of the European Cruzados and to inflict a painful blow to one of them pillars of the crossed alliance", relates the document. Also to the hour of the latch of this edition, sources of the Spanish inquiry admitted the presence of a suicidal terrorist in one of the convoys that yesterday were for airs in the Spanish capital.
Last edited by phongn on 2004-03-12 01:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
Never understimate forensic science. If a guy blew himself up there, he'll be detected even if it's a few cells of his cowardly brain smeared on a rock. No explosion is 100% destructive.
Think about what you just said... how would they know that these brain cells belong to a suicide bomber and not another victim. The efficiency of an explosion is also irrelevant to whether or not the explosion was large enough to obliterate the evidence.
Devolution is quite as natural as evolution, and may be just as pleasing, or even a good deal more pleasing, to God. If the average man is made in God's image, then a man such as Beethoven or Aristotle is plainly superior to God, and so God may be jealous of him, and eager to see his superiority perish with his bodily frame.
Never understimate forensic science. If a guy blew himself up there, he'll be detected even if it's a few cells of his cowardly brain smeared on a rock. No explosion is 100% destructive.
Think about what you just said... how would they know that these brain cells belong to a suicide bomber and not another victim. The efficiency of an explosion is also irrelevant to whether or not the explosion was large enough to obliterate the evidence.
There are forensic techniques which can decide whether or not a person was wearing the explosive, when sifting through the evidence. You usually have to search up to 100 meters from the blast site, but you can find it.
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"So have I, and I'm going to do them all to you." - Sylar to Arthur 'Heroes'
Howedar wrote:I can't speak for German reactors, but I believe all US reactors are spec'd to take a fully loaded 767 or something.
After the terror attack on the world trade center 2001 a study was done by the Gesellschaft für Reaktorsicherheit ( foundation/agency for reactor security), it was not published to the public but leaks to news magazines/papers occured and according to this leaks not one of the 19 german reactors are safe against a terror attack.
The damage directly caused by the crash would lead to damage to or destroy coolant and regulation systems which in turn would rise the possibility of a core meltdown.
Never understimate forensic science. If a guy blew himself up there, he'll be detected even if it's a few cells of his cowardly brain smeared on a rock. No explosion is 100% destructive.
Think about what you just said... how would they know that these brain cells belong to a suicide bomber and not another victim. The efficiency of an explosion is also irrelevant to whether or not the explosion was large enough to obliterate the evidence.
There are forensic techniques which can decide whether or not a person was wearing the explosive, when sifting through the evidence. You usually have to search up to 100 meters from the blast site, but you can find it.
I would think it would take a bit longer to determine though.
From the german news: German authorities still consider ETA the prime suspect.
Highlights for doupting the quaida connection:
- the group which claimed responsibility is notorious for claiming other peoples work. They also recently claimed to be responsible for attacks in istanbul and baghdad and a host of others. The letter is also very untypical for a real terror group.
- The tape with quoran-verses found in the transporter is apparantly a learning tape used to memorize verses. As in a speaker reads the verse and the listener then repeats it. It may simply belong to the actual owner the car was stolen from. Actual moslem fundamentalist can be expected to already have their quoran down.
Seems like the mystery may just remain for a while. Though there wasn´t a word yet about the prospect of there being a suizide bomber. That would be a rather heavy hint towards al quaida if confirmed.
Do we have an online source for the suicide bomber thing? I mentioned it on another forum and have people going off at me over it. Need to back it up, quick.
Rogue 9 wrote:Do we have an online source for the suicide bomber thing? I mentioned it on another forum and have people going off at me over it. Need to back it up, quick.
It was in the online edition of the portuguese newspaper I linked to. I also quoted the article. I would tell you to make them learn portuguese if they want to, but given that since the time I posted it the news has not been (at least yet) confirmed (and I since then read in elmundo a quote from a spanish official saying that the news was unfounded), I recomend you to just direct them to my link and www.elmundo.es and say the news was apparently just a rumour.
Never understimate forensic science. If a guy blew himself up there, he'll be detected even if it's a few cells of his cowardly brain smeared on a rock. No explosion is 100% destructive.
Think about what you just said... how would they know that these brain cells belong to a suicide bomber and not another victim. The efficiency of an explosion is also irrelevant to whether or not the explosion was large enough to obliterate the evidence.
The remains of a suicide bomber will be coated with explosive residue in very high concentrations, higher even than someone who was standing right next to the bomb would have recieved. That will be the giveaway.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
Still no more on the suicide bomber angle? The news stations over here are still not able to say who was definately responsible.
Also, does anyone remember this in France earlier this month? Its most likely unrelated as the bastards resposible for this made no ransom demand, but since there still seems to be some question as to who did it I thought it might be interesting.
Only way I can seem to coax the fucking link into working is by leaving it undressed,sorry.
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RedImperator wrote:The remains of a suicide bomber will be coated with explosive residue in very high concentrations, higher even than someone who was standing right next to the bomb would have recieved. That will be the giveaway.
Hey guys, it seems that Olrik can keep you more up-to-date with the news than I can, over here (I'm working pretty hard). I can tell you, however, that several tests were used to determine the existence of the suicide bombers. The first was the blast pattern, and the location of the remains. This was actually made more difficult because at first no one was sure if the remains were moved during the panic and medical emergencies that ensued. However, the location of "at least one" set of remains was consistent with that of a suicide bomber, in relation to the others. Forensics experts have been examining several bodies in detail for some time, and one of them was determined to have been actually wearing the explosives from the damage done to his body and the location of the remains in relation to the blast. I understand that they then tested the remains for explosives concentrations, though I don't fully understand the process they used, and that investigators have found fragments of what they believe is a "martyrdom belt," which was appropriately laden with explosive residue and consistent with belts used by Palestinian, though not necessarily Al Qaeda, terrorists. I am currently looking for additional information, and will post it if I find anything interesting. Talk to you soon."
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A quarter-decade ago, for a brief, sickened heartbeat, all the world were Americans. Now, on the day following this vicious attack on innocent people, we return the sentiment:
"Ahora, todo el mundo somos Madrileños. "
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There won't be anything to keep you from the distant morning glow.
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Iceberg wrote:A quarter-decade ago, for a brief, sickened heartbeat, all the world were Americans. Now, on the day following this vicious attack on innocent people, we return the sentiment:
"Ahora, todo el mundo somos Madrileños. "
I hate to be the bearer of discouraging news, but it's already been said:
Robert Treder wrote:
Resto en la paz, amigos. Somos todos los españoles hoy.
Plus, I haven't heard a peep about this from anyone except on SD.net, which sort of hurts the part about "todo el mundo". It might be because I don't watch TV news and I haven't been able to get to a recent newspaper, but you'd think someone would have mentioned it somewhere---elsewhere on the web, if nothing else.
Oh well. My condolences, at least, to all those whom this affected.
Yes, this hasn't been covered particularly well in the American media, apparently Martha Stewart and John Kerry's latest whine is bigger news than an ally being attacked.
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I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Joe wrote:Yes, this hasn't been covered particularly well in the American media, apparently Martha Stewart and John Kerry's latest whine is bigger news than an ally being attacked.
I wonder how that will got down with some people over here, given the coverage the media here gave 9/11.
Joe wrote:Yes, this hasn't been covered particularly well in the American media, apparently Martha Stewart and John Kerry's latest whine is bigger news than an ally being attacked.
I wonder how that will got down with some people over here, given the coverage the media here gave 9/11.
It's not sitting very well here.
I'm rather disappointed that neither John Kerry nor President Bush has made any kind of statement.
"Carriers dispense fighters, which dispense assbeatings." - White Haven
| Hyperactive Gundam Pilot of MM | GALE | ASVS | Cleaners | Kibologist (beable) | DFB |
If only one rock and roll song echoes into tomorrow
There won't be anything to keep you from the distant morning glow.
I'm not a man. I just portrayed one for 15 years.
Iceberg wrote:
I'm rather disappointed that neither John Kerry nor President Bush has made any kind of statement.
They haven't? That was the first thing most leaders here did. Surely Bush has at least mentioned it?
Sorry, I was looking in the wrong places: There's an article on the whitehouse.gov website and one on the johnkerry.com blog.
So they did say things, just not directly on their campaign websites.
"Carriers dispense fighters, which dispense assbeatings." - White Haven
| Hyperactive Gundam Pilot of MM | GALE | ASVS | Cleaners | Kibologist (beable) | DFB |
If only one rock and roll song echoes into tomorrow
There won't be anything to keep you from the distant morning glow.
I'm not a man. I just portrayed one for 15 years.
Viel Feind; Viel Ehr´.
