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Same with you. Firefox was the only one to actually state the source.

The novel and SOTE are sources, are they not?

Not the one that explicitly mentions that the Victory immediately preceeded the Venator. Only the RotS ICS does that.

Huh. Imperial Warships get phased out quickly it seems. Even on the Outer Rim, it's the Imperator Class that does the work.. instead of the barely-turning-twenty Venators and Victories...

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Not the one that explicitly mentions that the Victory immediately preceeded the Venator. Only the RotS ICS does that.

Okay. Pointless argument conceeded.

Nephtys wrote:Huh. Imperial Warships get phased out quickly it seems. Even on the Outer Rim, it's the Imperator Class that does the work.. instead of the barely-turning-twenty Venators and Victories...

That is odd, since most ships of that nature should last for decades, if not a century. Maybe Venators have an inherent design flaw that dramaitically decreases their lifespans.

The victory, however, is still around, mostly relegated to planetary defense or convoy escort (and about 3,000 of them were sold to the CSA.)

Pure Sabacc wrote:That is odd, since most ships of that nature should last for decades, if not a century. Maybe Venators have an inherent design flaw that dramaitically decreases their lifespans.

The victory, however, is still around, mostly relegated to planetary defense or convoy escort (and about 3,000 of them were sold to the CSA.)

There is some precedent for that. The B-52 is still in service, while the B-58 Hustler, of about the same generation, was phased out after only a few years of operational service. It could be that the Venators were retired after a fashion because their function was no longer needed, and/or filled by other, newer ships. The Victory class, meanwhile, were kept in service since they were still thought of as useful platforms.

Saw movie again last night, noticed a few things.

Wookie bowcasters appear to be an aesthetic look, as Chewie rifle in ROTJ fires to fast to be "recocked", and the tail gunner on of the ornithopers fired multiple shots from a bowcaster with out the "bow string" moving.

Four legged walkers used by the Clones. Taller than AT-TEs and have a cannon with an exposed gunner like an AT-TE.

Something that annoyed me, and that is cowardly battle droids. Who the hell programmed them. THey should be fearless, not running around like scared bitches, they're frickin machines! Personalities are ok for protocol droids, not for battle droids.

I also wonder if C3PO's personality is hardwired or he managed to back some parts in to R2. What are the odds of the C3PO developing the exact same personality after being wiped. Either that or all protcol droids are programmed to be prissy.

Fem-bots! Or fem-droids if you prefer. Didn't notice them the first time, but I caught them the second time. They were with the reception for the Chancellor's return and again seen with patrons of the opera.

Just remebered, does the ROTS:VD show Padme's ship? I'd love to see how people get from the flight deck to the main deck. I'm thinking very skinny ladders.

Four legged walkers used by the Clones. Taller than AT-TEs and have a cannon with an exposed gunner like an AT-TE.

I hope you´re not referring to the AT-AP, cus that´s known already, and has three legs (one for support). Where did you see this walker, on Kashyyyk?

There was what looked like a four legged walker in the background on the planet where the blue skinned female Jedi was gunned down, IIRC. It was seen again as a hologram on the table on Mustafar that the Seperatist leaders were using. The hologram lingered after Anakin cut them down and he and Obi-wan were going at it.

Deathstalker wrote:Something that annoyed me, and that is cowardly battle droids. Who the hell programmed them. THey should be fearless, not running around like scared bitches, they're frickin machines! Personalities are ok for protocol droids, not for battle droids.

The ones in blue were pilot droids. It makes sense for them to run, because they are clearly outmatched, and should keep themselves so they can pilot the ship later.

It was probably an AT-AP, since the only other new walker I recall seeing in the film after two viewings was that 8 legged open top troop transport walker on Felucia.

Necrolord wrote:The ones in blue were pilot droids. It makes sense for them to run, because they are clearly outmatched, and should keep themselves so they can pilot the ship later.

I don't think it makes sense. They should have hit the autopilot, picked up a balster and went down fighting. If the Jedi are defeated, then new pilot droids can be brought up, or they can grab a standard droid and upload pilot programs. If the Jedi aren't defeated they are going to get cut down anyway. By running away, all they are doing is getting in the way.

What blasters? Even if they were doing as you suggest, they'd still have had to run off the bridge to wherever the blasters are.

They should have had weapons nearby, but I guess they figured they would never have to repel boarders on the bridge, or other droids would deal with it. Either way they should have no fear, so that pilot droids would stay at their posts.

Deathstalker wrote:They should have had weapons nearby, but I guess they figured they would never have to repel boarders on the bridge, or other droids would deal with it. Either way they should have no fear, so that pilot droids would stay at their posts.

Whats better, droid pilots fleeing from two Jedi who are in the process of easily tearing through droids soldiers far superior to the pilots and perhaps evading the attackers long enough to pilot the ship again, or standing at their post for a few moments longer before a lightsaber blade decapitiates them. Which would involve better programming?

I also wonder if C3PO's personality is hardwired or he managed to back some parts in to R2. What are the odds of the C3PO developing the exact same personality after being wiped. Either that or all protcol droids are programmed to be prissy.

Most likely you can control the memory wipe. It's probably not a simple complete programming purge. You can probably wipe certain information while keeping core personality programming intact.

Which would involve better programming?

Staying at your post a few moments longer. The droids are machines, they should have no fear, whatever their job is. What if those pilot droids had been needed to repel non-Jedi boarders like clones.

The captain orders the pilots to pick up a blaster and go fight, and the pilot droid says "I don't think so" and runs away. If said droids follows orders, it is going to be scared to fight effectively. Why have battle droids in the first place if you give them emotions.

The Original Nex wrote:Most likely you can control the memory wipe. It's probably not a simple complete programming purge. You can probably wipe certain information while keeping core personality programming intact.

I can believe that. The core personality can be preserved, and everything else wiped. From 3PO's reaction I got the idea in my head that he would be completely wiped and reprogrammed entirely. However, R2's reaction, which seemed to be a kind of Nelson "Ha-Ha", a wipe isn't to bad. And now that I think of it, Owen wanted Luke to wipe the droids, and if it was a complete purge, then it would negate the reason Owen bought them in the first place

I assume it is arrogance on the side of the battle droids for not slapping a restraining bolt on to R2 after his capture. They knew he was a mild threat, shocking a SB droid upon his capture, but they must not have known what he had done in the hanger, otherwise they would have but on the bolt and locked him in secure room.

Deathstalker wrote:I assume it is arrogance on the side of the battle droids for not slapping a restraining bolt on to R2 after his capture. They knew he was a mild threat, shocking a SB droid upon his capture, but they must not have known what he had done in the hanger, otherwise they would have but on the bolt and locked him in secure room.

IIRC in the the novelization the do put a bolt on him. But then the whole Invisible Hand sequence in the Novel was nominally different than in the film (better IMHO).

It's been a while since I read the novel, and don't have a copy handy. It was silly for Greevy to have the Jedi brought to the bridge in the first place. He should have thrown them in the brig or kept as far away as possible from the bridge or other vital areas. There was no reason for Greevy to be on the bridge, he could have given orders from another part of the ship, and even less reason to meet the two Jedi on the bridge.

Just another observation during the openign space battle you see visible shield impacts against a Trade Federation Battleship, complete with spreading blue effect, on its hull, after a TL impact. Clearly, the shields on the Invisible Hand, and other ships, had failed earlier in the battle.

Pure Sabacc wrote:

Nephtys wrote:Huh. Imperial Warships get phased out quickly it seems. Even on the Outer Rim, it's the Imperator Class that does the work.. instead of the barely-turning-twenty Venators and Victories...

That is odd, since most ships of that nature should last for decades, if not a century. Maybe Venators have an inherent design flaw that dramaitically decreases their lifespans.

The victory, however, is still around, mostly relegated to planetary defense or convoy escort (and about 3,000 of them were sold to the CSA.)

People on this board have commented on the Venator's design flaws (Inefficient turbolaser layout, twin bridges, gigantic side hatches etc). I expect it was Kuat's first attempt at larger, multi-role spaceships and was retired ASAP.

Pcm979 wrote:People on this board have commented on the Venator's design flaws (Inefficient turbolaser layout, twin bridges, gigantic side hatches etc). I expect it was Kuat's first attempt at larger, multi-role spaceships and was retired ASAP.

The ICS states that production has already switched over to the ISD, which makes sense, after all, to have 25000 (?) by the time of ANH and being the most generally used warship takes some time.